Subject:I need a second opinion on this

Posted by: oretes1225

Date:5/16/2006 8:57:00 PM

I want to remix, and I have a chance to get this product. http://www.zzounds.com/item--STECUBASESX
Is this a good product, and has no problems with remixing?

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: Buckskin

Date:5/17/2006 9:44:33 PM

by remixing, what exactly do you mean??

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: oretes1225

Date:5/18/2006 11:39:54 AM

Man this place is a little slow. I already bought it on ebay. I mean taking a guitar out of a song and say, replacing where it was with the vocals. How they remaster stuff. It has mixing capabilities for people record their own album at home. But I hope it has a Re Mixing capabilty if you know what I'm saying.

I'll let you know when it arrives, if it has what I'm looking for.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: Buckskin

Date:5/18/2006 11:51:14 AM

Cubase could do this. But when people talk of remixing they tend to go with Acid. Cubase is a multitracking audio software.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: oretes1225

Date:5/18/2006 12:33:33 PM

Ah man, the excitement is building up inside me! I don't think I can wait.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:5/18/2006 1:34:44 PM

You do realize, don't you, that if you have a stereo mixed-down version of a song, there's NOTHING that will remove and separate the various parts, right? Remixing can only be done if you have access to the original multitrack masters with each instrument and vocal on it's own track.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: drbam

Date:5/18/2006 2:36:27 PM

"Remixing can only be done if you have access to the original multitrack masters with each instrument and vocal on it's own track."

That used to be true but the term "remix" has been expanded to include ripping clips and pieces from existing finished 2-trk recordings and doing all kinds of tempo and pitch changes, time stretching and adding MPC grooves and other overdubs of infinite varieties. Personally I think this whole trend sucks because it distorts and bastardizes someone else's artistic work - most of the time without permission. But I'm in the minority here because there is a huge market for it.

drbam

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:5/18/2006 6:09:08 PM

Steinberg's Cubase SX is the latest incarnation of a flagship MIDI / Audio sequencer / DAW that has been developing since the days of the Atari ST. It is one of the original "big three" pro software environments. I use the cut down version (SL3) for most of my MIDI work.

Be aware that Cubase is a deep program. It will take you some time to master it, and you need a pretty good harware setup to make it work well. Also, if you are used to Windows, you may find the interface counter-intuitive for a while.

Personally, I would NOT recommend Cubase to someone who (a) wants to remix, and (b) has never even heard of it! You would be better off with Live or Acid. You sound like the impatient type - I will be interested to see how long you stick with Cubase.

You can download trial versions of all these (and others like Sonar and Logic) - if you hadn't already raced off and ordered, I would suggest downloading the trials and working with them for a month - that will save you money in the long run.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: oretes1225

Date:5/18/2006 7:21:03 PM

Know I got people telling me it can't and now people that say it can. Boy, I guess I will find out on my own (not that I don't trust you guys). I may sound impatient, but I'm just a little excited. If it DOES have the ability to do the multitrack thing I will take the time to learn it. I ordered it off ebay, so I already blew $25 on it, but I'm still interested in a link to a Windows free trial download if you guys got it (I can't find it on google). I really appreciate the replies from you guys, and all the advice. I'm reading the features, and I'm wondering if this IS the feature that will allow me to re mix?

Intuitive Play order: This feature is a dream for arrangers. Slice up your song into verses, chorus, breaks, and reorder them easily to find out the most effective order. In other sequencers you have to rearrange all the blocks on the screen, and re-arrange them back if you don't like your new order. Here you can experiment all day till you find the best arrangement, and if you can't find one, your original is still there.

Gotta learn from mistakes, and hopefully this purchase wasn't a mistake.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:5/18/2006 8:54:56 PM

The Play Order track is like the new Sections in Acid. Allows you to (say) rearrange the order of sections as in (say) verse chorus verse chorus middle-eight verse chorus chorus becomes (say) verse verse verse chorus chorus. All music software generally allows you to do this.

Do you understand what multi-tracking does? If you record (say) a bass line, some drums, some keyboards and some vocals, you can have them all on different tracks and fade them in or out, mute them, apply FX etc, then mix them down into a final stereo master.

What you CAN'T do is take a CD track and break it back into the separate instruments.

A lot of the remixes you hear today were made by artists that have access to the original multi-track recordings, so they can build up a new track out of the components. You won't be able to do that if you are just working off a mastered CD. Anyhow, it's illegal (unless you have the artist's clearance).

What you CAN do with CD tracks is a mash-up, but you will need to be able to map songs to the same key and tempo. Cubase has good tools for this, but you will need to spend time to learn how to use them. Acid is easier.

You mentioned "remastering". This is done when the producer has access to the original multi-track tapes and wants to release an improved master using up-to-date technology. Not the same as remixing.

I don't know if the Cubase trial is still on Steinberg's site (have you checked?). This is an Acid forum anyway. I would do a search for "download Cubase SX trial" and see what I get.

PS If you are into remixing, check out the Acid Planet remix competitions. Sony is able to buy access to multi-track material from name artists and make it available for download to Acid users for use in a remix contest. This is a great resource for learning how to build a remix.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: oretes1225

Date:5/18/2006 10:05:21 PM

I wanted to remaster some songs from The Rolling Stones. But since I see it can't be done now, I'm quite dissapointed :(
But do you think you know how this guy remastered albums of The Rolling Stones? Here is a link to his album notes to his remastered Stones albums. I think he means he remastered them from vinyl, but how can that be done? You basicaly just have to read the first two paragraphs.

http://www.rs-covers.com/download.cfm?objectid=ED6481FE-ED7B-C880-A3A2EABD88FF54A2&id=944&title=Front%20Inside

And if you know how he did this, can you tell me what I would need to also do it? Since he says he didn't do anything digital.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:5/18/2006 10:52:10 PM

The Stones record is a remaster, not a remix. Basically, he has found a Japanese vinyl of the finished tracks, and applied a variety of EQ and compression techniques to make it "sound better". That means he hasn't changed any of the music at all, just the overall sound. You can do this kind of thing with Sound Forge - although why anyone would want to do a remaster from a vinyl pressing rather than the original tapes is beyond me! I don't know why anyone would pay for this stuff either. Have you heard it at all?

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: oretes1225

Date:5/18/2006 11:26:23 PM

I am getting a copy of it in the mail, in maybe a few business days. I've heard great things about his "remastered" albums, and that they're great sounding. He started selling them on ebay, but shortly after he started selling. He was warned by the authorities, so now they are traded amongst Rolling Stones bootleg collectors.
Are saying I could remaster If I had an 8-track tape? And If I could what kind of hardware would I need? Man am I full of questions. Sorry if I'm of any annoyance, I'm just VERY interested in this stuff.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:5/19/2006 12:20:16 AM

"Are saying I could remaster If I had an 8-track tape? And If I could what kind of hardware would I need? "

NO! If you had the original multi-track tapes of the Stones sessions (which you don't, and won't ever have), then you COULD do a complete REMIX.

To REMASTER the original, all you need is a finished copy of the original mix, preferably the two-track mixdown before it was originally mastered (expensive!). You would then apply various (expensive) processors in an (expensive) acoustically-neutral environment, then burn the final onto a digital master. Oh, and before all this, you would pay an (expensive) fee for the right to distribute the remastered product.

Really, this has nothing to do with Sound Forge. Go read some basic stuff on mastering, mixing etc elsewhere on the web.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: oretes1225

Date:5/19/2006 12:52:10 AM

"Go read some basic stuff on mastering, mixing etc elsewhere on the web."

Alright that's cool man, thanks for all your answers. Looks like your patience has ran out with me >_<

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:5/19/2006 5:18:57 AM

It might help if you understood these terms, since you seem to be using them interchangably and they all mean different things.:

Rearrange - to take various sections of a song such as introduction, verses, choruses, bridges, etc., and place them unmodified in a different order. For example, intro v1 c v2 c b v3 c becomes intro v2 c v1 b c v3.

Remaster - To adust the sound quality of a finished mix, evening out volume spikes, applying EQ to make the song sound better. No editing is done.

Remix - To work with the original separate "voices" such as vocals, guitars, keyboards, drums, etc. and recombine them in different ways than the original mix. In order to do this you need access to the original multitrack recordings in which each voice and instrument is on it's own separate track.

You can rearrange and remaster in Sound Forge, which i'm assuming you already have or you wouldn't be posting in this forum. Actually you can do these two functions in almost any sound editing program. You could even rearrange short songs in Windows Sound Recorder. A program like ACID may help for rearranging since it is more "musically aware", in that it can recognize beats and tempos in your music and work with them rather than just cutting and pasting time selections.

You cannot remix with any software unless you have the original multitrack masters. ACID, Vegas, and Cubase would all be fine programs for this job, but are all helpless if all you have available is a finished CD, MP3, vinyl, or cassette of the song.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:5/19/2006 5:21:15 AM

Thanks Chien for taking the time to explain much better than I did. And Oretes, sorry for losing it there for a minute. Hope you find what you are looking for.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: kbruff

Date:5/19/2006 8:48:20 AM

Poor fella -- you ought to visit Amazon.com and get some beginners books on the subject of digitial audio techniques/ technology.

Your in the wrong forum -- for one thing and remixing is hardly worth it -- since it is a very localized market.

Also there is a Cubase forum and general forums which may serve you a lot better.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: oretes1225

Date:5/19/2006 2:18:47 PM

I want to thank all of you for your support. I like to ask alot of questions, as you can see. I got the "remastered" alum in the mail today, and it IS remastered not rearranged like I thought it was. Thanks for giving me those definitions, I understand it now. I'm just a boy who wants to rearrange his favorite band's music (life sucks). I knew I was in the wrong forum, but I didn't know anybody with better knowledge to ask. Ah man, I shouldn't have jumped the gun. Now I have Cubase coming in the mail and I don't even need it. I will go back to Sound Forge questions from now on.

Thanks all for your time, now I'm gonna go have some delicous beef jerky and a coke.

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/19/2006 7:27:53 PM

You paid $25 for Cubase SX?? SX retails for ~$800.

You may be getting something very illegal. The dongle alone to use Cubase SX is ~ $40. If somebody used their SX to upgrade to another version, they can't sell the dongle as they will need it.

Without a dongle, you can't run SX.

I would be concerned that somebody ripped you off. Worse, they may have sold you the demo version - which has been known to happen as well. (They can get away with doing this as they can claim they are charging you for the "media" and not the software.)

Peter

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:5/22/2006 6:16:21 PM

Um, you mean remixing your own Cubase project ? Or do you think it can somehow take the guitar out of an existing mixed track ?!!

geoff

Subject:RE: I need a second opinion on this

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:5/22/2006 6:18:32 PM

Remastering and remixing are totally different things.

geoff