Subject:Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Posted by: Tomdini

Date:5/11/2006 8:14:29 AM

Does Acid let you record or draw MIDI notes into a single MIDI track assigned to a particular soft synth, and then let you change which MIDI channel of that soft synth any given note or set of notes can activate?

For orch libs in particular, this is much cleaner and more elegant than keyswitching. Many hosts allow assigning MIDI channels on a note-by-note basis, but other than in the Event List editor... which is cumbersome and can really be a pain to use for this purpose... I can't seem to find any other way.

-Tom

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/11/2006 8:19:09 AM

No, ACID does not permit this.

The ACID MIDI Track controls the channel.

Even if you change the channel in the clip List Editor, you are not changing the channel that the ACID Track plays on.

Peter

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: dafduc

Date:5/12/2006 8:02:55 AM

So multi-channel midi tracks I developed in Acid 5.0 for GPO won't work right in 6.0?

Scary.

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/12/2006 10:56:07 AM

Tracks from ACID 4/5 will be expanded into folders with a track for each MIDI chan.

Are you saying you are having problems loading ACID 5 projects with multi-channel MIDI into ACID 6?


GPO - Government Printing Office?

Peter

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: CineGobs

Date:5/12/2006 12:41:09 PM

My guess is he's talking about Garritan Personal Orchestra. ;-)

Bo

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: thenoizzbox

Date:5/12/2006 12:49:48 PM

Maybe GPO = Guitar Port Online (Line 6) ?

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: dafduc

Date:5/12/2006 2:37:42 PM

Garritan Personal Orchestra

Haven't tried loading one yet. Guess I better.

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: Pol Davril

Date:5/13/2006 3:55:38 AM

SonyPCH wrote:
Tracks from ACID 4/5 will be expanded into folders with a track for each MIDI chan.

That's not true.

This MIDI track has been created in Acid pro 4. Four channels : 1, 3, 5 and 7.

The MIDI file is loaded into Acid Pro 6 : here is a screenshot. No folder track.

The second screenshot shows four channels selected as outputs.

This screenshot shows the 4 MIDI channels in the List editor.
The MIDI channels are editable.
Strange : when a channel is updated in the List editor, the MIDI channels are not changed in the output parameters (see second screenshot).

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/13/2006 3:11:15 PM

You are correct. This is a bug in import of ACID 4/5 projects as you have constructed it.

Is this something you did to show the problem, or is it something that you do for a reason in your normal work ?

If so, is there a reason you work this way?

That is, why have such a sequence of notes as you did? One note on channel 1, one on 2, etc, etc?

Peter

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: vespesian

Date:5/13/2006 11:55:45 PM

Can't you do this using clips (different one for each note) dragged to an adjacent track.... or just use keyframe changes? Also, how the midi file is realized in AP6 depends on whether it is a midi 0 or a midi 1 type file - - I think.

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: Pol Davril

Date:5/14/2006 2:23:16 AM

Peter,

I've got a bunch of Acid Pro 4 projects with external MIDI files.
I have checked if the import is working in Acid Pro 6.
I have discovered the problem with a real project of mine.
However, the MIDI file posted is just a example created for this topic.

I'm playing Soundfonts with the Sfz+ VSTi plug-in. Some of my soundfonts come from Gigafiles that contains multiple articulations for a sound (example: flute normal, vibrato, staccato, trills). That way, realistic sequences can be created. In the Giga format, the articulations are triggered by specific keys. It's not possible with Soundfonts. So, I have splitted the Giga files into separate soundfonts files. I have tried 3 methods to change the articulations inside a musical phrase:
1. Create a MIDI track for each articulation. The drawbacks : each MIDI file has gaps when its own articulation is not playing, it's difficult to edit the notes because they are splitted into multiple tracks.
2. One MIDI track and change the patch number when necessary. Drawbacks: the soundfont must contain all the articulations, used or not, and it can become a huge file; when changing the patch number, the current notes are sometimes cut, the next note can be muted when the patch change is pending.
3. One MIDI track and change the MIDI channel. This is the best method, I think. Only the used articulations are loaded in Sfz+, it's very easy to change the MIDI channel and no drawbacks from the previous methods.

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: dafduc

Date:5/15/2006 2:11:20 PM

I use multi-channel midi files a lot for two reasons - (1) for my church related stuff, I usually write a chart in Encore first, then import the midi file into Acid to build an arrangement. This often happens years apart - the decision to have my choir sing a song at mass and the decision to make a recording are usually completely independent of each other. (2) I do a lot of internet collabbing with other composers, they will often deliver a detailed midi file with many channels on it, then I will build in Acid from there.

Daf

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/15/2006 7:42:02 PM

ACID 6 supports Multi channel MIDI files, so you wont have a problem with your stuff.

The discussion here is about multiple channels on a single Track in ACID 6. Pol Davril found a problem with particular ACID 4/5 projects there were not being imported/converted properly. This will be address in an update.

Peter

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: Pol Davril

Date:6/2/2006 9:31:59 AM

I have just tried Acid Pro 6.0a.
The import of an Acid Pro 4 project is still bad.

This little project contains a MIDI track with a flute, with articulations on different channels (1=normal, 2=staccato, 3=trills, 4=vibrato).
It's played with the Sfz+ soundfont player.

When loaded in Acid Pro 6.0a, no track folder is created, the MIDI files are not splitted by channels.
All channels are reset to "1" and the articulations technique does not work anymore.

There is another problem : in Acid pro 6.0a, the rendered song is out of tune...!!!

The rendered mp3 by Acid Pro 4 : GOOD !
The rendered mp3 by Acid Pro 6 : BAD !

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/2/2006 9:44:35 AM

This particular problem could not be addressed in time for the 6.0a update. It is far more complex than anticipated and may not be addressed until a future version of ACID. The fix up in 6.0a is as you describe. The multichannel MIDI track is defaulted to a single channel.

The only work around on the import of ACID 4/5 projects that contain MIDI data as you provide is to recompose with in the MIDI track and channel model that ACID 6 provides.

I will look into the rendering issue, but my assumption is that it is related to how the ACID 4/5 project is assembled.

Peter

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: Pol Davril

Date:8/10/2006 1:42:29 AM

The issue I reported on 5/13/2006 12:55:38 PM (in this topic) is NOT fixed in the 6.0b update.
The same screen copies still describe the problem.

Thus, there is a complete incompatibility between standard MIDI files (and those created by Acid 4/5) and Acid Pro 6.

*EDIT*: The out of tune issue I reported on 6/2/2006 6:31:59 PM (in this topic, with link to sample project) is NOT fixed in 6.0b.

So, older projects created with Acid Pro 4 CANNOT be loaded correctly in Acid Pro 6...
You should check all kinds of backward compatibilities thoroughly.

Subject:RE: Per-Note Midi Channels in AP6?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/10/2006 9:07:46 AM

>>So, older projects created with Acid Pro 4 CANNOT be loaded correctly in Acid Pro 6...<<

Yes, there are incompatabilities, which I acknowledged. As I stated the problem is significant due to bugs in ACID 4 and how ACID 4/5 worked with MIDI.

As I stated this may not be addressed until a future version of ACID - i.e. not an update to ACID 6. ACID 6 does not support multiple MIDI channels on a single track. This will not change for for ACID 6.

The only work around - and I know it is painful - is to load the ACID 4/5 project and fix it up/edit to work as you desire in ACID 6.

I know this is not what you want to hear. We are not ignoring you or the issue. It is just the way it is for now. Legacy is important, but sometimes there are no obvious ways to resolve all legacy issues. This does not mean we wont continue to try to resolve this issue.


Peter