Subject:HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Posted by: DarkJedi

Date:4/23/2006 8:03:33 PM

being new to soundforge, im slowly learning how to edit audio to burn to cd's. at this point, i cannot for the life of me figure out how to make tracks within long songs at all.....for instance, say i have an audio thats 120min long....and i want to put in a track at every 10min intervals so i can jump along the audio just like on a reg. cd that has 12 or so tracks instead of waiting for the audio to get to a certain spot...i spent lots of time reading the help mans on regions/ markers...nothing seems to work......i have the audio up, i move the cursor to lets say the 10minute mark for the first region/marker or whatever.....i go to special menu, select regions list...select insert and i see the little marker thing on the audio wave thing.....i do this at each 10mins along the entire length of the song.....but its not working....i cannot jump to the selected regions.......what am i doing wrong? the audio still plays all the way as one big long song.....help?

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:4/24/2006 3:48:21 AM

Sound Forge doesn't burn tracks on a CD. You need a burning program such as CD Architect, Vegas, Nero, Roxio/Easy CD Creator, etc. If using Vegas you can place track markers using the N key. CD Architect may be the same key, or use Insert/CD Track.

If using some other burning program you can use Sound Forge to set regions for each CD track, then Tools / Export regions to create separate .wav files for each track. Most CD programs can burn in DAO (Disk At Once) mode to create tracks from a list of .wav files with no gaps in between them. I believe Nero will read markers within a single .wav file saved by Sound Forge and create tracks from them.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: rraud

Date:4/24/2006 1:41:18 PM

There is also a script to put markers or regions at 10min. intervals which is really fast and easy.
Search the Sound Forrge script forum for those.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: DarkJedi

Date:4/24/2006 6:58:25 PM

sorry but your wrong, sound forge DOES burn to cd's....ive made 2 audio cd's already and they turned out fine, all but the tracks that i cannot put in......i made 2 of them to see if the markers/regions took to which they didnt.....so yes, soundforge does burn cd's....its up top in tools, says burn track at once cd.......also, your post didnt answer my question :-)

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: DarkJedi

Date:4/24/2006 7:04:59 PM

thanks rraud, but i shouldnt have to do that....according to the help files, i should be able to make a region/marker at whatever point i select and it should stay, ( just by right clicking and selecting add region/marker....i see the little marker icon on the wave thing i see, but it wont stay) or rather create a track if you will to jump to....but when i play back the audio it just plays right on through, no option to jump to the markers i made......i burned a few audio cd's, within soundforge, as of this posting to test with the markers/regions set.......nothing....plays straight through

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: bnjenter

Date:4/25/2006 10:20:16 AM

DarkJedi - Before you take off on some of the guys here in the forum who have had multiplied years of experience with these programs, perhaps you should stick with questions. The fact is, yes, Sound Forge does write CDs, but it writes them differently than most programs that write audio CDs. Sound Forge is limited to writing Track-at-once CDs, where most programs, including one that will do what you are looking to do, write Disk-at-once CDs. CD Architect is a good solution for you, but you won't get there by going off half-cocked and spieling all your knowledge at people who obviously know something more than you. I'm not trying to be tough on you, but a word to the wise may take you farther than this present approach.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:4/25/2006 12:19:55 PM

OK, so what i should have said is that Sound Forge will not burn track markers within a single burn, and that is what you need to do. Taking that into account, i did answer your question. :)

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: rraud

Date:4/25/2006 2:37:23 PM

I'm not exactly sure what jedi is asking and negleted to mention that SF will not turn markers into tracks and always puts a 2 sec. space between tracks/files. I was thinking he was exporting to CDA or burning with Nero which will read the makers... but a few addtional steps must be taken in those app.s as well to convert markers or regions to CD tracks.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: DarkJedi

Date:4/25/2006 5:57:23 PM

ok....my mistake.......apparently im using something called sound forge audio studio, not the soundforge proggie that i thought i had.....stupid me stupid me........but in anycase, simply put heres what i want to do....--
i have a music track thats over 2hrs. long.......
since cd's only hold 80min of audio i first need to know how to shorten the song, or break it in half so it will fit....one half on one cd, other half on the other cd. when trying to do that, i higlited an area, say from the start of the song until the 1hr10min mark, the selection turned dark blue...i right clicked and hit cut/crop and the half that wasnt highlited disappeared leaving only what i had hilighted left.....but apparently that didnt work either because in teh recording part it still said i had more audio than would fit, it still showed 2hrs worth......thats first---

next, on that same track or whatever other tracks i want...i need to figure out how i can insert markers or whatever it s called because the music im recording is just one long track, not seperated into seperate tracks like most audio cd's....what i want to do is be able to jump within the song itself to whatever points i put, track 1,2,3, etc instead of holding down the forward speed button and waiting till the song gets to the point i want to hear....sometimes its at the 24min mark give or take. i was thinking of 10min intervals within the song but that could change to......

when trying to put in the markers (is markers even the right thing to use?) i can see the icon and the dotted line running down the wave thing from top to bottom......i record the cd but its not there, the song plays straight through......im sure im doing something wrong

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:4/25/2006 6:07:38 PM

You're not doing anything wrong with the markers other than expecting Sound Forge to create tracks on the disk. It just simply does not do what you want. And no, the full "Pro" version of Sound Forge doesn't do this either. Read my first response and you'll find out how to do it.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: rraud

Date:4/26/2006 12:32:14 PM

If you have Nero, see my instructions on this thread from 1/18/04. Nero can read the SF markers and convert them to tracks. Burn as Disc-at-once and there will be no spaces between tracks.

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=3&MessageID=245626

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=3&MessageID=245626

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: DarkJedi

Date:4/26/2006 6:18:47 PM

thanks rraud, i do have nero, nero 7 ultra edition to be exact.
i have no problems burning seperate tracks i compile together and put them in the list to burn, they all turn out fine.....what im having the problem is, is with these long 2hour songs that wont fit on an audio cd. the only reason i was using the sound forge thing is because i thought that would be easier than doing it through nero, which is pretty much the same thing.....but what i cant figure out is how to cut the track to a smaller size to fit onto the disk...and second the marker thing......
when i add the song to the playlist in nero, it takes a second to build something called a peak file, then the song appears but at teh bottom where it shows the disk space, it goes over into the red obviously because its to big....so when i hit edit audio, how do i cut the song in half, or cut it to whatever length i need for it to fit on disk?
what i did so far was highlight say for instance, start point 000;00 to about 1hr10mins (70 mins to fit on disk) then i right click and hit cut then the other half that isnt highlited goes away leaving what i have highlited there....but in the main file list the disk space bar still shows up in red with the whole 2hr song still showing.....what happened to the part i cut?
also theres the marker thing which is also simular to how soundforge is....the same methods it seems, add marker/regions.....which dont take either.....

UPDATE----since i posted that, i read your article you linked, i took that 2hour song, put it in the audio section, right clicked properties, selected indexes,limits, splits.....seen the graph.....took the end marker and put it at the 77min mark but i had to wait for it to slowly build across....the music wave pattern started from left to right and took forever (is it always that slow for the wave pattern thing to move that way? do you always have to wait till it gets all the way across before you can do anything?)....so i took that end flag/maker thing like i said..and boom it saved....in the main audio area the song went from 2hrs to the 77mins i selected.....ok so i cut the song in half, now how do i add markers or whatever so i can jump to certain sections in the tune without having to wait for it to play all the way through? and how do i test it before burning, i only have a play button on nero and not any other buttons like next track, forward, etc?

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: Music Man

Date:7/19/2006 4:44:26 PM

This week I updated to 8.0d and cannot save markers to a file once it has been saved the first time. With a new file, I can add markers which are saved with the file but if I try to add markers after the first save, the added markers just disappear from the screen.

I reported this to tech support just a while ago and I am really angry with the poor quality of the software I've been getting since Sony took over Sound Forge development. Version 8.0 had so many problems that it was really criminal to release it that way. It was a long wait for the first update but at least things were mostly OK since then. I missed out on 8.0c (maybe that was a good thing).

I've seen other problems with 8.0d such as different levels being reported by various modules or different levels coming out on export than are in the Sound Forge file but those can be worked around.

I have files to edit and I can't edit them without using markers. The files I edit aren't just little, tiny files either. Many of them are over an hour long and up to 4 or 5 hours long. There's no way I can place markers in them before I save them the first time.

This must be fixed. I'm about to UNINSTALL and reinstall to get back to 8.0b and I am not happy about it AT ALL. I lost a couple of hours work yesterday because the markers disappeared. I've already lost about an hour today just looking up info on this problem, reporting to tech support and reporting here. Now, I'm going to lose about another hour reinstalling and getting started again editing.

I used to really like Sound Forge and recommended it to everyone that hadn't used it. Those days are close to being over if Sony doesn't get its act together. I've just about had it with Sony software and it's up in the air right now whether I'll ever invest in any more.

I hope Sony is looking at this forum and not just users. My complaint isn't with the users, of course.

Will someone using 8.0d build 128 try this? Open a new file window. Record anything, even silence, for a few seconds. Place some markers. Save the file. Place at least one more marker. Save again. Do the markers you added after the first save disappear?

I'd appreciate some feedback whether this happens for others or not.

Thanks.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:7/20/2006 7:41:56 AM

No repro with build 128 saving to .wav.

1) What format are you saving to initially?
2) In the initial save dialog, is "Save metadata with file" checked?
3) What settings are you using for labels (Options->Preferences->Labels)?
4) Do the markers appear in View->Regions List when they do not appear on the waveform?

J.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: Music Man

Date:7/20/2006 2:42:29 PM

I save PCA files.

Yes, I save metadata. The markers are saved with the first save but any markers added after that are not saved the next time I save. They also disappear from the screen during those subsequent saves. I don't know if the checkbox remained set but it should have been. I never change it. The markers were always saved the first time but not on subsequent saves. I tried this on multiple files, new and old.

The label settings are defaults. I choose a file name at the time I save.

No, the regions list does not show the markers. That's how I knew they were missing the first time I went back to continue adding markers. I could see that the several markers I added the day before were gone.

I have gone back to 8.0b and markers save correctly again. I'll be continuing with 8.0b until the next release unless I have to make a video from the screen to demonstrate the problem in 8.0d.

Thanks for looking at this. Try PCA to see what happens.

There's another thing I just realized after getting back to 8.0b. Upon saving this further-edited existing file in 8.0d, the operation was over in about a second or less. The file I'm working on takes several minutes to save in 8.0b. It's over an hour long at 44k, 16-bit stereo. So, something may be wrong with saving that might not be related to markers. Was saving in 8.0d changed in some dramatic way that it doesn't take as long to complete anymore?

Also, is there a way to receive an email notice from the forum when there's a reply?

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:7/20/2006 3:01:53 PM

This is a bug with PCA that occurs when there are no changes to the audio data. There is a workaround:

1) Hold down Ctrl+Shift while selecting Options->Preferences
2) Select the "Internal" page
3) Find the row labeled "Enable quick, natively-supported file saves" (or type "quick, " in the combo at the bottom to filter out everything else)
4) Set the Value to FALSE, make sure to hit Enter or click outside the box to commit the change, then click OK

Alternatively, you could perform some trivial change to the audio prior to saving (e.g. Process->Invert twice) or save a temporary copy to a format other than PCA.

Sorry for the inconvenience. This will be resolved in future versions.

J.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: Music Man

Date:7/20/2006 3:31:22 PM

Thanks for the info.

If there's not a good reason for me to reinstall 8.0d compared with 8.0b, I may just keep 8.0b and wait for the next release. I didn't run into any big troubles with 8.0b except I think some problems I had already dealt with in earlier versions with audio levels being reported differently in various Sound Forge modules or in other programs. The problems I encountered in 8.0b were trivial enough to work around.

What problems might I encounter if I stick with 8.0b that I haven't already seen?

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:7/21/2006 10:02:30 AM

Release notes detailing the changes in 8.0d are available in the Downloads area.

On further investigation of your problem, it appears that the new markers are getting saved, just not refreshed when the file is automatically re-opened. If you just manually close and re-open the file, the new markers that disappeared should reappear.

If not, the pref workaround is still safe, but may make certain save operations slower than they need to be.

J.

Subject:RE: HELP WITH REGIONS/MARKERS ???

Reply by: Music Man

Date:7/21/2006 1:24:13 PM

That doesn't explain why the several markers I saved from one day were gone when I opened the file the next day. Wouldn't that count as closing and reopening the file?

I heard the same from tech support today but I really doubt that I'll try 8.0d again because of this. I lost a lot of time on that problem this week. I finished placing the markers on that 1-hr. file yesterday.

Tech support said this will be fixed in 9.0. I certainly hope that I won't have to purchase 9.0 to get a fix for something that wasn't originally broken in what I have already bought.