Subject:Volume Envelope Anomaly

Posted by: PeterWright

Date:4/15/2006 8:28:59 PM

I had a 4 beat sustained string note (midi soft synth) which suddenly jumped up in volume while it was sounding, after about 3 of its 4 beat count. I tried all sorts of solo/mute settings with other tracks without tracking down the cause.

then ... I noticed that a volume envelope which was meant to be "flat" from about Bar 10 to Bar 35 did in fact change from a setting of 88 at Bar 10, to 89 at Bar 35. The note which jumped in volume was in Bar 23. When I changed the right hand node of the volume envelope to 88 to make the envelope exactly horizontal, the volume jump disappeared.

So it seems Acid has trouble gradually ramping very small volume changes - instead it suddenly changed in the middle of a note! I only had such a subtle change there by accident, but it looks like something to watch out for.

Subject:RE: Volume Envelope Anomaly

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/15/2006 11:21:57 PM

What softsynth?

Peter

Subject:RE: Volume Envelope Anomaly

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/16/2006 12:03:17 AM

It's the supplied DLS soft synth (Slow Strings).

Subject:RE: Volume Envelope Anomaly

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/16/2006 10:01:58 PM

I'm still finding out new stuff, so this problem is not what it was yesterday ...

It was definitely not instrument specific - I changed from DLS to Kompact with a different instrument, and the volume jump was still happening.

But currently I may have solved it, without knowing exactly how:

I had the string track duplicated with the second one transposed down 12 semitones.
For some reason, the volume slider on the second track defaulted to 0 (The original track defaults to 100 on the 127 scale) now the duplicate seems to have changed to 0 -127, and around this time the start-quiet-then-sudden-volume-jump seems to have stopped.
Is having different tracks with different volume settings for the same midi channel likely to cause problems?

Anyway, it seems it's not related to slight differences on envelope settings - so without knowing why, I seem to be ok .... till the next time.

Subject:RE: Volume Envelope Anomaly

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/17/2006 8:09:06 AM

Two tracks, routed to the same device, on the same MIDI channel, with different CC settings for MIDI volume (CC #7)?

This would definitely cause confusion. One track would have to win out on which controls the volume.

Will look into it.

Peter

Subject:RE: Volume Envelope Anomaly

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/17/2006 9:00:04 AM

Peter, thanks - I appreciate your responses.

It may not sound like it, but I am loving Acid 6 to death - just in the course of converting from Logic I'm coming up against a few new challenges, but already I'm enjoying hugely greater control over what I'm doing.

The situation of two tracks using the same midi channel and instrument is quite common in my workflow. For instance, my keyboard skills have "feel" but my technique is lacking, so I often do piano left hand on one track and then record piano right hand on another. Mixing these two will inevitably lead to two envelopes, each going their own way...

Subject:RE: Volume Envelope Anomaly

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/17/2006 11:20:46 AM

I see your workflow, but which track envelope wins?

You can't send a volume CC of 100 on channel 1 and a volume CC of 60 on channel 1 and have the synth - hardware or software - treat them independently. There is only one channel 1 and on volume parameter to control.

How would you want it to work?

Peter

Subject:RE: Volume Envelope Anomaly

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/17/2006 5:36:48 PM

Ok, each midi channel can only have one output level - I wondered if any "pre-mix" was possible - I guess the way to do this is with note velocities.

Now, this being so, shouldn't Acid prevent users from making different settings to different tracks using the same channel, either with track sliders or volume envelopes, by "locking" them together - I just checked and Logic does this - any envelope settings on a track using say Channel 1 are duplicated to any other tracks using that channel.

Subject:RE: Volume Envelope Anomaly

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:4/17/2006 9:06:48 PM

You could use the MIDI filters to block out CC100 on your input.