Subject:Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Posted by: H2000

Date:4/2/2006 11:27:56 PM

I got the trial downloaded. Then went and upgraded my DirectX. Then registered Acid. Then tried to start the program and can't get past the startup screen. 1st time it crashed during scanning VSTs. Next time it shows the startup logo, says it's doing stuff, then just disappears. Rebooted to the same thing - the logo splash screen comes up then disappears.

Very disappointed.:(

Any suggestions would be more than appreciated. I use Acid Pro 5 without any problems right now.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: miquel

Date:4/3/2006 2:05:24 AM

I cleared all Vstplugins folders before first run.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: filkertom

Date:4/3/2006 4:14:35 AM

Dunno. The trial went just fine on mine -- it took a couple of minutes to go through the VSTs, but that was about it. XP Home SP2, DX 9.0c. How much RAM do you have?

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: Weevil

Date:4/3/2006 4:26:49 AM

No problems here, sweet as a nut.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:4/3/2006 4:55:38 AM

H2000,

Download this reg file, double-clic on it and select "Yes", so it will merge with your registry.

This reg file will just say to Acid Pro that your default VST Plugin folder can be located at C:\DummyPluginFolder. That's where it's scanning for plugins at the launch of Acid Pro 6.0

Start Acid, and then browse the top menu Tools > Preferences, and in the VST Effects tab, re-select your default VST Plugin folder (e.g. C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins). Then clic Refresh so it scans over all the VST Effects plugins you have.

While scanning, try to look carefully at what VST it's adding to Acid's VST effects list. You'll be able to see more clearly on which plugin Acid is freezing / crashing, and you'll be able to remove the culprit .dll file.

HTH,
Zac

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:4/3/2006 5:14:14 AM

It took a while to scan my VST folder, but eventually installed Ok.

Looks really good. The old, familar Acid interface is there, with lots of new stuff. Love the automation support and the drag-n-drop section arranging works so smoothly!

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: H2000

Date:4/3/2006 8:50:27 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I did try moving my VST folder and then restarting. Got the program started, put the VST folder back and rescanned and it crashed again. So the question is: am I supposed to go through them all one at a time? And if I find one that is causing a problem, then what? Not use it (even though it works fine with Acid Pro5)?

Man I was really thinking it may be different this time, but with Acid it's always something in the first versions.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: Spheris

Date:4/3/2006 9:04:49 AM

For what it's worth, it's not acid at fault..it is steinbergs loose canon approach to proliferating vst in the audio community to blame.

Some programs are more and some a lot less tolerant than sony's to the issue. It comes down to every vendor putting their own cute spin on the whole vst/vsti to differentiate themselves in the market.

If you want - I'll give you a thought to make you really cry..think about if you had the waves plugin bundles (to the tune of about 10k invested for 3.5 thru 5.2 versions over 7 or so years) and the vst's weren't recognized at all in anything outside of steinbergs nuendo for a time this and last year. At least you can look through and find the offender and let the maker know and it's probably nothing more than a minor bug fix in their code (sony does use steinbergs code for their vst support so I really strongly doubt it's anything but the usual third party taking a shortcut and broke something approach at play here - it's better than the other path it could go. Some of the people who bought GTR 1.0 had to wait till now to use it at all in acid.

It IS a pain, but you might get a more stable plugin out of the deal for finding it and letting the maker know

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: H2000

Date:4/3/2006 9:21:58 AM

I understand all of the issues with VSTs. But the thing is I use Acid5 everyday without an issue, so now Acid6 looks more strict? I understand that it will lead to a more robust program when running it, but as someone else mentioned in another thread here: most other programs find elegant ways to just ignore problem VSTs, or let you know where the problem is. I find it very unique to Acid to have the crashing problem on startup.

This is obviously a problem that other will have. There should be a troubleshooting method in the Manual for this. Or at least some mention of this issue. There will be others, like me, who can't even get the program to startup. Then they will have to call tech support, come here or other forums and post, or ?

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:4/3/2006 9:38:19 AM

ACID now displays the plug-in name as it enumerates them. Could it be that the last name displayed before it hangs is the problem? (just a guess because all of my plug-ins work)

~jr

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: Sari

Date:4/3/2006 9:40:39 AM

If anyone has Bug Pack Installed, try moving it out of your VST folder. This solved the problrm for me.
Sari

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: Sari

Date:4/3/2006 9:43:12 AM

Amplitube and Guitar Combos, Steinbergs obviously, were also problems.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: Sari

Date:4/3/2006 9:59:14 AM

Finally I've nailed it down on my system.

Amplitube, without any of the guitar combos = No problem starting ACID 6.
If Amplitude is present in my Vst folder with any of the guitar combos = ACID does not start.
Bug Pack ( any of the plugins) = ACID does start.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jmeredith

Date:4/3/2006 10:14:26 AM

FWIW... Amplitube caused problems for me with Acid Pro 5 also - turned it off and things worked fine after that.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: sghoughton2

Date:4/3/2006 10:29:27 AM

Hi,

My VST Instruments and ReWire devices tab are blank. The VST Effects tab seems fine and i can point it to my vst directory. Anyone experiencing this?

thanks

steve

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: sghoughton2

Date:4/3/2006 12:57:21 PM

Looks like a reinstall did it

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: brainphart

Date:4/3/2006 6:27:54 PM

I appreciate everyone's input, but ABSOLUTELY NOTHING has worked to open up the new 6.0.... = major disappointment

Regards

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:4/3/2006 6:39:24 PM

If you put your system specs in your profile and tell us exactly what's happening, we might be able to help you.

- Nick

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: brainphart

Date:4/3/2006 6:49:36 PM

Thanks Nick,

Specifically, the when the program is starting, it gets hung up and crashes when "initializing VST instruments". Then upon closing the error message it displays several ReWireDLL Verify failure windows. I've tried reinstalling, removing the VST folder, a dummy vst registry merge, etc. etc.

So...

Here I sit $129 poorer.

Regards,
Ian

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:4/3/2006 7:01:10 PM

The ReWire error is a red herring. Ignore it. It will show during almost any crash. Do you have VSTs stored/installed on your hard disk by other programs? If so, where? It sounds like you might be having some registry issues.

- Nick

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/3/2006 7:20:16 PM

>>a dummy vst registry merge

What do you mean by this?

Could you locate this in your registry:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\VST

What is the value for

VSTPluginsPath


Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: brainphart

Date:4/3/2006 7:31:17 PM

Hi Nick,

I have most VST's stored in a dedicated folder at the c prompt:

c:/plugins/VST

there are several rogue VST's (programs that wouldn't let me save in the above folder) in the program files folder. Native instruments, Steinberg, Cycling '74, etc. As far as having a program open that would keep the VST's from loading = not to my knowledge - I didn't notice any applicatons or processes running while trying to start up ACID 6. Registry issues, possibly - although I am diligent about cleaning it regularly.

Thanks,
Ian

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: brainphart

Date:4/3/2006 7:36:21 PM

Hi SonyPCH,

Thanks to you and Nick for trying to help.

Dummy vst registry merge = I tried what another user suggested in this forum, probably message #6 or so.

<Could you locate this in your registry:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\VST>

Yes, the value for VSTPluginsPath in the data column is C:\Plugins\VST - which I just changed, and I am at least getting a VST scan, but the splash screen disappears while scanning.

Regards,
Ian

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: H2000

Date:4/3/2006 8:14:26 PM

For anyone else having this issue,
my "problem" VST was wormhole2demo.dll

removed it and Acid starts fine.

Crashing should never be a programs' known default behaviour though.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jcoplin

Date:4/3/2006 9:05:10 PM

I'm having the exact same problem!

I installed 6.0 and it ran fine for the first time I ran it. I closed and rebooted when I came back into the studio later. Now it won't start. I tried uninstalling/reinstalling but nothing. It keeps hanging on the vst scan. I moved my vst folder to a new location but that didn't help anything. What in the world is going on!

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: brainphart

Date:4/3/2006 9:20:52 PM

I'm about to give up after all these hours --- try to get my $ back.... I am happy with ACID PRO 5.0...

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: miquel

Date:4/3/2006 10:56:55 PM

Hi,

I suggest to try:

1.- Move the contents of your VSTplugins to another folder
2.- Execute AP6, this should play the demo song.
3.- Close AP6
4.- Move again each plugin to detect which one is ofending AP6 and restart AP6

My 0.02 cents.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jcoplin

Date:4/4/2006 8:11:56 AM

I tried moving the VST's but that has no effect. Acid 6 still crashes on the load. I can't get into the app to reset the vst folder.

Initially I was getting it to crash on a particular vst but when I moved all the VSTs, it just crashed as soon as it got to the point of initializing vst instruments before scanning the individual plugins.

I've wiped the registry and everything so I think something in addition to being touchy about particular vsts is going on.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/4/2006 8:56:44 AM

jcoplin:

Could you locate this in your registry:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\VST

What is the value for

VSTPluginsPath

and what do you have in the directory pointed to by this, if anything?

Peter

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jcoplin

Date:4/4/2006 10:04:44 AM

The registry value for that key is: "c:\Program Files\Vstplugins"
There is nothing in that directory (my vst directory is elsewhere) except a file called installer.phdata

The full text of the exception is:
"Unhandled exception at 0x00711866 in acid60.exe: 0xC0000005: access violation reading location 0x90000CCA"

If I change the registry to match my actual VST plugin directory, it does begin to scan the directory. It eventually finds some plugins it doesn't like so it bombs out.

However, if I remove the offenders it still completes the scan and then throws an exception. If the folder is empty, it throws an exception.

It looks to me like there are plugins that give it problems but that something is also fundamentally messed up with initializing the vst engine as it will crash out on launch with an empty VST directory.
i can reproduce this by pointing the registry entry to *any* empty directory.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:4/4/2006 11:04:39 AM

You mentioned that you tried moving the VSTs. Did you temporarily remove them from the folder, or did you remove the folder altogether? If you haven't tried the latter yet, give it a shot a let us know what happens.

Also, is there any more data on your exception error? Does it mention any DLLs?

- Nick

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jcoplin

Date:4/4/2006 11:32:27 AM

If I remove the folder completely or set the registry to point to a non-existent folder, it still bombs out during "initializing vst instruments".

I don't even get an error window, it just crashes back to the desktop with no information. I only got the information I have because I happen to have MS Visual Studio installed and it catches the unhandled exception and attempts to debug it.

There isn't any more information to the exception. Because there are no symbols available, that's all the information I can get. I can get access to the call stack, it shows the following dlls:

ntdll.dll
msvcr71.dll
acid60k.dll
msvcrt.dll
kernel32.dll

However, I'm not sure if these are complete or accurate as there are no symbols to be had for acid60.exe according to VS.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: MacMoney 3

Date:4/4/2006 6:35:47 PM

try this:
"Copy" the vst dll's from your VST Plugins folder
"Paste" the dll's to C:/Program Files/Vst Plugins

Go to:
Start | Run regedit
Locate the following key:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Sony Media Software\ACID Pro\6.0\Metrics\VSTi Synth

and delete it.

Restart ACID. This should force ACID to look for VSTis again on start up.

Greg Mitchell

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jcoplin

Date:4/4/2006 7:04:33 PM

Same thing. It scans the directory and then crashes. If there are no plugins, it bombs. If there are plugins, it gets through scanning and adding them and then bombs. The plugins are all Native Instruments stuff that I know are working for others. They worked for me on the initial install but once I tried to use Acid again, it would no longer load. Uninstalling and reinstalling has no effect.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: brainphart

Date:4/4/2006 10:28:33 PM

Your not alone jcoplin - same exact stuff happening here....

Please, if someone has talked to tech support - share the fix for this.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:4/5/2006 5:35:17 AM

For those who are having crashs due to something with vst/vsti plugins.

1)What plugin+vendor+version #? Please list.

2)Create a folder and cut/paste ALL dlls to new folder and see if acid starts. Then if that works add back to the vst folder one or so at a time and see what breaks it.

3)Anyone in need of a reformat/fresh OS install maybe?After a while of useage+install/uninstall of progs stuff gets wanky and in need to be set straight.

4)Anybody doing some "audio daw" tweaks? Turn on/off any services?

Ed.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: Spheris

Date:4/5/2006 5:50:25 AM

Might be that time of the year to go look for this
http://www.experimentalscene.com/download.php?list.2

Why of why do we go through this every upgrade cycle.......

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jcoplin

Date:4/5/2006 7:54:56 AM

Let's be clear, this is *not* just about some errant VSTs. Acid will not load for me even if there are *no* VSTs on my system.

There are some VSTs which are giving people problems and I have some as well. The scenarios are like this:

1) A folder with three VSTs A,B, and C. Say B gives Acid problems. Acid starts loading, loads A fine, gets to B and crashes to the desktop with no error message. If I remove B, Acid tries to load, loads A and C successfully, and then crashes to the desktop.

2) A folder with no VSTs in it all which Acid is set to look at for VSTs. Acid starts loading, gets to "initializing VSTs" and crashes to the desktop.

3) A non-existent folder which Acid thinks has the VSTs. Same as scenario 2.

My OS install is fairly new (within the month) and *everything* else is running like a top. This is clearly an Acid issue which is not as simple as just removing VSTs that are causing problems. I wish it were.

What is most strange is that I downloaded the app, installed it and started a new project. I worked on the project for a couple of hours. Everything seemed to be running fine, including my VSTs. I left the studio for a couple hours. When I got back and turned on my system, Acid would no longer load. Uninstalling and reinstalling does nothing.

As far as VSTs, I'm running NI Komplete with all current updates and other users do not seem to be having trouble with them. Again, all of these worked on the initial install, now no combination of VSTs (including none) work to get Acid started.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: brainphart

Date:4/5/2006 3:15:10 PM

jcoplin,

Your spot on --- to add, I will watch any combination of VSTi's loading and invariably it will crash after the last alphabetically scanned VSTi. Whatever the loading process is *after* the VSTi's could be the culprit.

Regards,
Ian

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:4/5/2006 3:57:04 PM

The only other things I can think of would be this:

1. Delete Acid's VSTi registry tree (Please be careful when doing this!) You'll find it under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Sony Media Software\ACID Pro\6.0\Metrics\. Delete the VSTi Synth key. This will flush its VSTi cache.

2. Now hold down Ctrl+Shift and start Acid. Select "Delete all cached application data" and the press "Yes". This reset the rest of Acid's settings.

Let me know what happens.
- Nick

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jcoplin

Date:4/5/2006 5:38:55 PM

Sadly, this has no effect. Like brainphart is also experiencing, this appears to be happening *after* the vsts have all been scanned in the directory. So, it must be something that is happening at the end of scanning vsts or immediately after.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: P2K

Date:4/10/2006 3:55:58 PM

Thought I'd jump into the mosh pit here. All errors and all attempts at repair as mentioned in the previous posts apply to my woeful situation as well. I have noticed as the rest of you that some process AFTER the point where the last named VSTi enumerates (alphabetically as well) is the scene of the crime. What process happens there that causes the crash?
I just thought of a possible way of at least seeing the program call at the breakpoint.
http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.html < is a great little freebie that Mark Russinovich wrote to watch real-time processes come and go.
Just out of curiosity, how many of you experiencing difficulty have an internet connection on your DAW? I dont have one and refuse to put it on, for obvious reasons. I crank off NetNotify the instant I get into the Sony progs.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: LittleStudios

Date:4/10/2006 4:06:09 PM

has anyone had NetNotify actually Notify them. I'm constantly visiting the SONY media site. i check for updates there. so i really don't see the point in having that running.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: P2K

Date:4/10/2006 4:06:20 PM

Oh, yeah, another trick to try to ID the process:
"Click Start ->Run. Type sfc /scannow. Select the OK button. Follow the prompts throughout the System File Checker process. Reboot the computer when System File Checker completes".
Just an Idea, but for those who might find it useful the EventID that occurs on my setup
is an Application Event : ID 1000.
it looks like this in the event log:
"Faulting application <application name>, version <version number>, faulting module <module name>, version <version number>, fault address <hex address>"
In English, This is what your poor computer is trying to tell you
" This application or application module behaved erratically and it was jeopardizing the system functionality so I had to stop it. Here are some details that I could find about this application. They may not be that useful to you but they may help the application developers. The fault address is just the part of my internal memory where the application was when it started to do things that were affecting the system."

There is about 70 billion reasons for this message to occur. I'm trying to track down the most likely ones applicable to our situation now.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: P2K

Date:4/10/2006 4:24:34 PM

well, so far, I have found a whole lot of detail from MS that tells us pretty much what we all already know, but here's the wrap-up on it so far:

The "faulting modules" are typicall dlls used by those applications (and the event even gives us their version). All this tell us is that this is a generic message from the operating system.
So Windows considers (in certain conditions) these applications as faulty. Windows NT/2000/XP is typically tolerant to applications as long as they "mind their own business". That is, they respond to the thread scheduler and do not attempt to use memory that is reserved to Windows itself. In this case, it seems that one of the modules used by the application tried to write in an area of the memory that is reserved for the operating system. If Windows would allow this, the stability of the whole system might be put at risk so the application is simply terminated and this event recorded. So, why would this happen? Why would an application try to use a portion of the memory reserved to Windows? Several posibilities:
1. Bugs. Probably most typical cause, a poorly written application may attempt to "break" the rules.
2. Applications/Dlls out of sync. Some applications may need a new dll but for some reason the dll on the system is an older version that does not support all the functions that the new application needs so the calls to these functions may have arguments that cause the dll to misbehave. The solution to this is to update the dll to the latest version or reinstall the application.
3. Corrupted files. If a dll is corrupted (i.e. problems with the hard disk, viruses, etc...) it is hard to predict what it can do when is loaded. Again, here the solution may be to reinstall the application. Also, the hard disks should be scanned (with scandisk) for potential errors. The latest service pack may help as well.
4. Hardware problems. The solution to this is obvious but it may be hard to detect it in the first place. Use it as the last resort.

The troubleshooting approach here would be the one for any faulty application or driver:
1. Obtain the latest updates from the vendor
2. Make sure the hardware is functioning properly
3. Reinstall the latest Service Pack
4. Run scanddisk (to fix any problems with the file system).
5. If file corruption is suspected uninstall and install again the application in question

I did see two suggestions that might help in some cases.

1. Delete your windows Profile and then rebuild it by logging in fresh.
2. Update your Video drivers to the newest rev. possible.

I'm going to try this stuff tonight and see if any of it helps.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jcoplin

Date:4/10/2006 4:34:38 PM

While all this is true, I'm not getting an "access error" which is the memory violation type that you are talking about. I'm getting an "unhandled exception error" which points heavily to a bug in the application.

My guess is that there is some code that is assuming something about the state of the system, location of files, driver states etc. which is not the case and so Acid is throwing an exception error when it attempts to execute. However, since the code apparently has no provision to handle this error, the app bombs. I would be willing to bet that the error itself is not actually fatal but the failure to handle it is.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: P2K

Date:4/10/2006 4:48:59 PM

Excellent point. I agree with the first assumption that bugs in Acid is the most likely culprit. Frustration drives me to try to wrap my sytem around those bugs in order to get
the product I paid for to work on my otherwise stable system. It can be good to throw as much out there as possible to see if something works, but ultimately Acid should have a "Safe" mode for troubleshooting puposes, should have internal logging and should be much more robust in regards to how it handles errant or conflicting .dlls.
Still...
I cant seem to stop wondering about the actual breakpoint placement. Isnt there a place in the manual or the system requirements (or maybe I just saw it in the forums) about requiring Terminal Services to be enabled? I enabled mine and it made no difference, but what's up with that? Its it rpc-dependant for some reason?

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:4/10/2006 5:51:50 PM

I don't think Terminal Services is required. Quite the reverse. I had the Terminal Services error message, and I killed it by disabling Terminal Services.

FWIW, the Terminal Services problem seems to be harmless. It generates a single error message every time you start Acid, and then does nothing once you clear the message.

FWIW2, I had an annoying message every time I started Acid 5 and Vegas Video LE - something like "Unknown error". It never seemed to do anything either. Now that I have disabled Terminal Services, it has gone away (I still have Acid 5 installed). I suspect it was really the Terminal Services issue, and Acid 6 is just smart enough to give a more informative error message.

Subject:RE: Another Sony Release = more problems :-(

Reply by: P2K

Date:4/10/2006 5:53:05 PM

Thaks for clearing that up. All information is welcomed.