Subject:SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Posted by: [r]Evolution

Date:4/7/2006 8:54:04 PM

I feel that better Media Suite integration would truly solidify Sony's place in the PROFESSIONAL Media Creation World.

I mean like Adobe did with their Production Suite. Where you can actually open projects in the other applications to complete/add to them. (I think Apple also does this with their FCPStudio Suite.)

At current... there is NO integration whatsoever. Other than having a similar interface and some similar functions... it's like working with totally different companies when trying to utilize the entire Media Suite to it's fullest abilities.

When can we expect some sort of Media Suite Application Interaction?

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Weevil

Date:4/7/2006 9:36:21 PM

Word on the street is that Sony are going to do something along these lines.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Ben 

Date:4/8/2006 6:09:07 AM

Give us sync and audio streaming between ACID and Vegas, whether it be via ReWire or a proprietary Sony Media Software system, and you're going to have a lot of *very* happy customers.

Ben

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: drbam

Date:4/8/2006 6:16:29 AM

"Word on the street is that Sony are going to do something along these lines."

Yeah right. What street?? Sony is as secretive as dubya's inner circle. How can you post stuff like this unless you're an "insider," who in the current parlance, is "leaking" something that may or may not be classified information??

drbam

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: [r]Evolution

Date:4/8/2006 2:45:38 PM

It seems weird that Sony only releases one Program Update at a time.
I mean... they just released Acid 6. What about the others?

Seems that if they were gonna do some MediaSuite Interaction between the Programs that they would be developing/releasing the entire MediaSuite instead of just one Program. Just seems that they would need to be Programming them at the same time to get that Interaction. If not... sounds like BUGS will be introduced into the workflow. (I'm not a programmer though)

Apple & Adobe did this and their Suite interaction is pretty sweet.

Sony... please do the same.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Weevil

Date:4/8/2006 3:24:29 PM

System 1

http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.asp?m=724159

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:4/8/2006 7:20:32 PM

It would probably be more realistic to continue developing one application at a time rather than trying to come up with an integrated suite all at once. For one thing, waiting for them all to be ready at once means waiting for the last part of the last one to be finished. Imagine no new versions or updates for a couple of years. That would be death for the product line and SONY would never risk that.

The much more likely scenario is that each new version comes out as usual and is a "suite-ready" version*, with the integration features semi-hidden. Then when enough of the applications are ready to integrate updates* will be released that expose those features.

* Remember that versions are major upgrades to the software, such as 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, whereas updates are small bug fixes or tiny sets ot new features, such as 5.0a, 5.0b, 5.0c.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Weevil

Date:4/8/2006 7:55:59 PM

Yeah there are a whole bunch of issues in perusing a concept like that. I certainly have no idea if/what they are going to do.

If they wanted to I think Sony is probably in an excellent position to provide a complete A/V package like that.

Just the idea itself seems to generate a lot of interest in people. Certainly seem like it would open up a really big new marketing angle for them.

On the face of it all seems to make sense.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: [r]Evolution

Date:4/8/2006 10:27:00 PM

Weevil,
Whatchoo talkin bout?
When? When? When?
This is the first I've heard of this.

System 1
Now that's what I'm talkin about!

It would probably be more realistic to continue developing one application at a time rather than trying to come up with an integrated suite all at once. For one thing, waiting for them all to be ready at once means waiting for the last part of the last one to be finished. <-- How did Adobe do it? How did Apple do it? Neither of them released 1 App at a time. They both released a Full Suite with interaction. So, are you saying that Sony developers are not as competent as Adobe or Apple?

The SonicFoundry team is still developing, right? Maybe SONY needs to 'Invest' in the Team. (US)

If we are to wait for 1 App at a time... we'll be waiting for a loooong time... Years! I say this because Acid 6 just came out and does NOT have Integration built in... and Vegas 7/DVDA 4 is due out - noone knows when... and SoundForge?

1 App at a time Integration just sounds like an "uh oh... We're falling behind so what do we tell them?" I truly feel that it's All or None on this front.

System 1 sounds like the best bet. It also sounds like it's gonna be an 'All at once' release. I just hope it isn't a hoax.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:4/9/2006 3:50:12 AM

How do you know ACID 6 doesn't have integration built in? Maybe Vegas 6 already has it too. Maybe when Sound Forge 9 comes out (no, i have no clue when) SONY will announce a patch for people who own all three that enables the integration between them all.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Spheris

Date:4/9/2006 5:08:46 AM

Integration? Let's see. Forge Plugs into Acid and Vegas.
Vegas can open and edit video from acids timeline
forge can edit audio from vegas timeline
dvda supports direct exports, forge can export direct to cda projects.

I'm not seeing a lot in the way of integration trouble here. It's tighter than it's ever been

System One: A marketing design pitch made at a meeting last year, You guys know that until a product is on the market everything is up in the air. The rumour is true - the idea was thrown out there. But until a shipping product occurs, no point to speculate on it. The idea of a shell integrated app with context driven sub fuctions of any one of the entire line (the pitch was to integrate all the subfunctions of the entire product lines) is not beyond the near future. I doubt it would even be something not possible now..though probably not without some handicaps and considerations as far as getting it all together.

sidenote: in retrospect, I really should not have commented about it, then or really even now. Enthusiasm for the idea and just the sheer logic of the proposal prompted what few things said about it. But we are here at their proposed time and that said. While disappointed - I believe the features in acid are telling in that they are heading that path anyway - whether proposed or that they were already en route to that. Having learned over time that the Sony Parent company and Madison Media itself are related not as tightly as some would think.

A marketing person at Sony Japans "bright idea" does not necessarily translate into direct action on Madison Medias part. It would be nice, but it's really not at all like that. Not in that way - though it does surely have some form of input and consideration given to it.

think of it like this - two years ago there was a question of why acid and vegas were separated as they were - one of the reasons given were differences in the way each treats timing and sync of its given media supported.

two years later, an acid supported by a refined vegas engine, timing sync for not only midi but the then elusive frame level video sync and one step closer to what? A vegas that does rewire and midi...? All left is add the forge submenu functionality to the chopper/trimmer and...........................well, you get the idea....

Give it some thought. it's a really cool future to think about. Better still because it's now

But development of those sort of features, functions and extending and bringing them to market will never happen immediately or in a way anyone might want. I have to say - it made my day when we were told about it. At the time - it was proposed for about now. I think the person who proposed that idea was over ambitious or just hasn't the grasp of the real world time frames for an idea like that. Here we are at the spring - it hasn't materialised and it's entirely possible the idea was rejected at madison media and let go for now or it's just trundling along and we're seeing it progress at its natural rate as features added to each generation until we hit some nirvana and one day we have that "production bundle for 1599 or whatever that only has one installer..cool idea? definitely, are we there yet...? I don't see it available for preorder so work in the present. It's possible that an integrated approach even might be something that they decide will work against them as a market proposition - how many changes has the PS3 spec gone through in the last 6 months alone to accomodate for legacy support/blu-ray/psp support? It may not turn out anything like the idea pitched a year ago.

But I doubt it - they like to innovate. They also like to take the time and do it right. My moneys on an eventual surfacing that will exceed the idea that was pitched last year.

Give it patience.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Weevil

Date:4/10/2006 4:39:48 AM

Really interesting stuff...I do think it makes a hell of a lot of sense for Sony to chase something like this, be pretty surprised if they didn’t. I’m not expecting anything soon, it’ll happen when (and if) it happens.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Spheris

Date:4/10/2006 8:01:41 AM

I doubt the "if" is a factor anymore. The thing with the timing mechanisms between acid and vegas seemed like an out of the question arrangment a year and a half ago when it came up.

a year and a half later..frame accurate sync to scoring capability...
I think it's down to time, bullet proofing and figuring out how to make money on it without going over their base markets ability to cover the cost. I doubt anything like that will go for what you would call cheap but I would say even at 2k it would be a fraction of an ICON system and much more functional without a side machine room for all the hardware you'd have to get with it.

I have faith in their technical expertise, their ability to work minor software miracles..and a lot of faith in sony itself to find the market position to scare the living hell out of avid and steinberg and put them on notice their neither slick nor that flexible in the little boxes they've marketed themselves into

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Weevil

Date:4/10/2006 1:30:31 PM

Crikey they got the sync thing beat!!! That is huge news. Well, yes in that case strike the ‘if’...

The marketing stuff is what can make it really work. They can pitch it as a fully pro solution, not just a bunch of ‘toys’. (With a pro price tag)

...Won’t you be getting shot at dawn for saying this stuff publicly??? Isn’t that a mandatory death penalty offence?

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Spheris

Date:4/10/2006 2:42:54 PM

Shot for what? I'm not posting proprietary code. Nor am I setting a timeline (aside from that the idea was shot over the deck a year ago and a year later - I think the guy who proposed it shot a little short or maybe just unrealistically). Read back, this was a discussion at a meeting where a lot of ideas flew round the table. I'm going on the continuing assumption that even if that proposal didn't directly translate into a "make it so" order. it's filtered through the office - if the boys and girls in WI weren't already on it a long time before any of that. Do I have a date for it? You're kidding, right? So nothing much to be shot for or about. We work for different divisions, same parent. But no more than say Sonic could quote my production schedule for the next 6 months. I certainly cannot quote theirs either. Simply because it's completely different things. No insider trading going on - it was a marketing pitch thrown at the production side and looking for feedback and wish listing - he got that. And what I took away from that was the distinct impression someone would be going somewhere with that. I asked him about a ballpark eta. His reply was a year or so. I think he was overly optimistic. But what to say..PCH and co. keep surprising us with every release.

You can only be shot for that kind of speculation in some south american countries and the western end of russia (see mongolian border territiories :)

Here's a better example and parallel, Aniplex is SPG's animation division (similar to Pioneer's Studio Gonzo) Two years ago, A startup domestic cable network was pitched that would become Animax (or some marketing geniuses cute name of a channel subdivision outlet) A year and a half later - not there yet. Content is there, logistics are not that difficult. But still - not going to find it as a channel on your Cox/Rogers/Time Warner lineup quite yet. Though Aniplex is producing at a neck breaking pace and SPG just paid a healthy ransom for the world (read-non japan) distribution of Production IG's latest series Blood+. So with that in mind, there is a definite plan - noone licenses foreign distribution without a channel to distribute it through.

Why can't you find it on your remote? Timing and positioning. The content is already there and Aniplex runs a round the clock schedule (more than 40 series - 26 episodes minimum produced or co produced in house or through subcontract last year alone) Track that back about 7 years - there is no problem putting a 24/7 lineup in play.

But marketing is everything. Sony likes making money - so they have to make it something that will work from a cost to profit standpoint. It's not insider knowledge - it's that little thing a lot of american corporations could use - they call it common sense :)

Just as sure as I am that Animax will materialise, I'm sure System One (or some variant of it) will - when the timing/marketing and everything else makes it profitable, feasable and worthwhile. But I'm no more likely to say when Madison will do it. Than they can say when Animax will debut on domestic cable.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: Weevil

Date:4/11/2006 2:12:44 AM

The getting shot thing is just a reference to Madison’s extreme frugality when it comes to sharing information with the natives. Hence I (and the usual suspects) make reasonably regular, tongue in cheek references to things like firing squads, gulags, etc, if any non strictly official beans are spilt in any way.

I never actually speculated on or asked you for a date, I’m (far too) well versed in the types of issues involved in getting major projects off the ground in corporate environments to do that. Like I said it’ll happen when it happens...

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: [r]Evolution

Date:4/11/2006 2:32:49 PM

I guess for me:

The INTEGRATION I would like to see is...

-being able to open an ACID project in VEGAS.
(not rendering files or 'send to'. Actually being able to start your project in ACID then open it in VEGAS to finish or add or whatever)

-being able to open a SOUND FORGE project in ACID/VEGAS.

-being able to open an ACID/VEGAS project in DVDA.

-each app being able to update the revisions of the other.

* If you haven't already... check out the new Adobe Production Suite's Integration. (I'm not saying convert to Adobe or buy it - just read how it's Integration between each of it's programs works) I've tried it and it's definitely a desire for me from SONY.

PREMIERE PRO 2 can open AFTER EFFECTS projects withOUT Rendering. Piece for Piece... FX for FX and all. Same goes for ENCORE DVD. Do you know how much time this saves on a Composited piece where you need to use different Apps. You can go back and make changes and they are automatically updated in all programs. So essentially... using 3-4 Apps and only Rendering Once. That's absolutely amazing!
(I wish SONY had something like After Effects or AE Integration with VEGAS)

-- Although I guess I'd be happy if EVERYTHING that was in ACID was in VEGAS. Then I really wouldn't need the Integration. VEGAS could be ACID's Big Brother of Sorts.

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: CDM

Date:4/12/2006 4:43:21 AM

I just want to see a way to use Acid and Vegas together. For me, it seems silly that I can't lock Acid to Vegas for scoring purposes. I know you can import video into Acid, but often I'll need something while I'm in the middle of something big in Vegas and I want to put an Acid "trigger" marker which would just lock Acid to Vegas so I could compose simultaneously. I also think an Import Vegas Audio Tracks feature should exist in Acid so you can port a project over for more complex composition in Acid. This does NOT mean AAF or OMF import/Export because the point is that I WANT my track and BUSS effects and automation.

Being able to nest an acid project on the vegas timeline would be swell as well.

my $.02

Subject:RE: SoundForge-->Acid-->Vegas-->DVDA

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:4/12/2006 6:03:10 AM

> Being able to nest an acid project on the vegas timeline would be swell as well.

Actually, you can sort of do this now with the output from ACID but I agree dropping the actual project would be sweet. Usually when I save a wave file in ACID, I include the project path in the metadata. Then in Vegas, I can just right-click on the wave file and select Edit in ACID, make any changes, and Vegas picks up the new render when I switch back. That’s pretty good integration right there.

~jr