Comments

Coursedesign wrote on 12/10/2005, 4:25 PM
C4D is a very solid 3D program. The latest version 9.5 is outstanding.

The program is easy to learn for somebody who knows the language of 3D.

Do you?

If you're starting from scratch with 3D, expect to spend 95-99% of the effort on learning "the language of 3D", ie. the terminology, how you work in 3D in any app, different types of rendering, etc., etc. Artists go to school for several years to become pros in 3D, it really is a serious commitment.

If you're not 100% sure yet, start with a less expensive application and see if you like the concepts.

Blender is free and a full featured 3D app (although I do not care for its UI).

TrueSpace can be bought on the cheap, at least earlier versions. Certainly useable.

Strata 3D CX is a slighly different package. It is far easier to work with, almost intuitive, and it has very good integration with Photoshop, etc. They have some $99 specials at the previous link. The full product is usually abt $600, but you can get it for $180 if you subscribe to Layers magazine (I have details).

Lots more that could be said, but you have to decide if you want to dedicate at the very least hundreds of hours just to become a beginner in high level 3D, or if you want to shortcut the process with something like Strata 3D CX or a few other apps.

There is also Poser 6. Very easy to learn, and you can produce stunning quality animations even with little effort. This product has grown immensely since its inception.

It all depends on what you are looking for.

fldave wrote on 12/10/2005, 5:22 PM
I started years ago with a cheap program called Simply 3D. Then got into Amorphium, a slight step up, but still a beginner program. Blender can do fabulous things, but the interface forces you to know what you are doing. I am into Bryce for the the past few years, mostly for detailed landscape, sky, cloud effects. Maya has a free learning version available now, also, to try to draw people from the free Blender.

A couple of years ago, Lightwave was the way to final render your objects, their render engine was the best for that level of tool.

Lots of low cost ways to get into 3D. Buy some books, they will probably have a free tool to use to see if you are a fit.

Plan on years of learning and experimenting, though.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/10/2005, 5:36 PM
If you are looking to do animation, you might want to get a package that specializes in that and hides some of the details (like inverse kinematics) from you. Reallusion iClone is worth looking at if you just want to do some quick basic animation. I’ve never used Poser but a package that specializes in animation might be the shortest learning curve. Having said that...

I have Cinema 4D 7 XL and it’s outstanding for someone who needs powerful 3D but doesn’t want to spend a lifetime learning it. I tried Maya and 3D Studio Max before buying Cinema 4D. Both Maya & 3D Studio Max had an enormous learning curve. (Forget about Truespace, it is the hardest 3D application in the world to learn. I couldn’t make any sense of it.) I picked up C4D rather quickly and I can come back ot it after not using it for a month and still remember how to get around. It’s just logically laid out.

Here’s what you should do. Download the trial of all of these programs. Then go to 3DBuzz.com and work through some tutorials and see for yourself which one fits your workflow. 3D Buzz has some excellent video tutorials in DivX format.

~jr
Coursedesign wrote on 12/10/2005, 8:24 PM
Two things to note:

1. C4D comes in various packages. If you are going for C4D, make sure you have budgeted for everything you need (this often ends up at $2K).

2. Lightwave 3D 8.5 is only $795 currently, and that even includes Vue 5 Infinite, an incredibly high quality landscape creator that sells separately for $595... Lightwave is signficantly better than C4D for photorealistic rendering, and the top quality renderer for this is included. Only some expensive 3rd party renderers for Maya and 3ds max can surpass this, and not all the time.

I agree that C4D is slightly easier to learn than Lightwave, and a lot easier than Maya and Max.

Still, any pro 3D animation using these tools takes a long time to learn. Animation is yet another language to learn besides the 3D language!
Klausky wrote on 12/11/2005, 6:22 PM
Im buying it at a student price at academicsuperstore.com. The XL Bundle which includes MOCCA and a few other of their apps is only $250, so I'd rather get something powerful and learn from it, instead of starting out with easier products. I want to use it to make tanks, airplanes, etc. for a history project due in June. With enough work is it likely I could be able to make these models by May/June? Or, would many more months be needed?
Coursedesign wrote on 12/11/2005, 8:52 PM
Why would you make your own tanks and airplanes?

Unless you need something really unusual, there are a lot of models available for usually inexpensive purchase. Let somebody else do that work, and focus on creating a suitable environment instead. That alone will likely take you through next summer to learn to a higher level, and you'll get a great quality overall.

Turbo Squid is one good source, there are many others, take a look and see for yourself.

Note that it's not quite as easy to get content for C4D, so you may have to look for format converters (and these can create significant extra work sometimes).
deusx wrote on 12/12/2005, 10:37 AM
XSI softimage Foundation for $495 is the best deal.

Each app has some advantages and disadvantages ( so maybe downloading and using a 30 day demo is a good idea ).

But that is the one to get. Best animation/rigging tools, modeler just as good as anything else out there. It's basically just missing realistic fur and some simulations from higher end versions of the program ( stuff most people never use anyway ). Mental ray renderer is included and can render as well or better than Lightwave, Max or Maya ( I use Lightwave too ).
Coursedesign wrote on 12/12/2005, 11:25 AM
Trying demo apps is a very good idea. Just trying to do basic things will quickly tell you if you can live with the UI (they are all different).

The only concern is that it's difficult to know what limitations might be hit in the future as the experience kicks in. For that, it's important to decide on exactly what is needed for the type of output sought.

I think all major 3D apps have academic prices.

Lightwave right now comes with Vue 5 Infinite (as I mentioned above), this is the most realistic landscape generator available today. Could be a factor in your choice if you need landscapes which are notoriously difficult to create manually.
LW8.5 now also includes a pure 64-bit version for Windows x64, and a free upgrade to LW9, which should be out shortly.

Whatever you decide to get, prepare for a good 3D education, it really is a different world...
orca wrote on 12/14/2005, 2:38 PM
I'm still a LW beginner and found the renderer to be the best for its price. The modeler is pretty good too. And with the special deal, you can't beat it. One of the best store is sharbor.com just search for Lightwave and you should see the LW 9 & Vue 5 Infinite deal. I heard LW is not so great for character animation though.

XSI with its new pricing (Foundation) sounds like a good deal too, they have 30-day trial although I found this very insufficient, for me, there's not enough time to try an advanced 3D app like XSI. I liked their previous mkt method a couple years back, by providing the Learning Edition.

Maya still provides the Personal Learning Edition that you can download for free on their website. I personally find the software is very intimidating though, but again, I'm still on the beginner level.

Hope that helps.


orca wrote on 12/15/2005, 4:17 PM
LW just dropped the price again, this is really a good bargain. Check out this link.

Coursedesign wrote on 12/15/2005, 7:10 PM
Orca, many thanks for this link!!!

It's not really that LW dropped their price this fall, this is a marketing special that is not advertised elsewhere. Very very good deal.

For anybody who is contemplating saving $80 by getting the PDF manual instead of the printed manual: it is 1500 pages. In color. Can you print that yourself for less than $80?

LW9 is an incredible product also, just look at LW 9 features.

To be able to upgrade any earlier LW version from 4.x onwards for $316, and to get a full $595 Vue 5 Infinite package included at no extra charge, that is just mouthwatering/insane/wonderful (pick your choice). Knowing Newtek, this offer will disappear within days or possibly a few weeks. (At one time, they offered Digital Fusion DFX+ as a bonus, but that disappeared pretty quickly...)

To get a new full version of LW9, w/o upgrading, for $636, including the $595 Vue 5 Infinite, that is not bad also. This package (w/o the Vue 5) compares favorably with what you'd pay $2K+ for with other packages.

It is important to realize that there is no "best 3D software." Even the top Hollywood 3D companies mostly use different packages for different parts of the work, and they have huge budgets to buy whatever they want.
orca wrote on 12/16/2005, 5:28 PM
No problem.

I was going to shoot myself when I saw the deal since I just upgraded my LW/Vue for the regular price from sharbor, and just a month later there's this deal, should've waited. I thought about the same thing, with this price, I could have bought the printed manual as well instead of the PDF version I got.

But for all of you who are contemplating, this is probably the best time to get into LW. Consider it a Christmas present from me. :)