Subject:ACID PRO 6 in October?

Posted by: Spectralis

Date:9/15/2005 11:42:10 AM

It's been nearly a year since AP 5 was released (October 04.) Cakewalk has just released an upgrade to Sonar. I think it's time we had version 6 of ACID, don't you?

I can't wait to see all the new goodies. AP 5 is 3/4 perfect so I'm expecting big things for ver 6. Come on Sony! Don't be shy - give us some tasters of what's being planned. You know it makes sense ;)

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: DJ_Don

Date:9/17/2005 4:58:58 AM

Acid Pro 6.0 in a month? That would be awesome, but I HIGHLY doubt it will be that soon. Usually you here from beta testers a while before it comes out, and there has been 0 said about a 6.0 release. But I agree--Sony gets closer and closer with every release, and I really hope 6.0 takes care of some of the glaring omissions in 5.0 that lots of people (like myself) had asked for. And with companies like Ableton making live performance with a PC so common, Acid could go in bunch of different cool directions. Here's to hoping?

Peace.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/18/2005 4:16:15 PM

Well, I know that Sony's line of apps was never intended for a live atmosphere (though there are some who use them in that capacity). More like for post-production stuff.

But in any case, what were guys looking for? They say good things come to those who wait...

mu...mu...muhahahahaha...haaa

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/18/2005 5:50:47 PM

Things I'd love to see in ACID 6

1. A proper piano roll editor
2. Multiple audio/midi clips on one track
3. A freeze function for synths and FX
4. Enhanced/improved loop editing for audio and midi
5. Envelope editing for all synth parameters
7. Saving of FX and synth chains as presets
8. Loading of full project or individual project parts (midi & audio tracks, FX/Synth chains, etc.) into another project
9. Auditioning of project parts before loading
10. VST/VSTi troubleshooting tools
11. Enhanced groove tools
12. Built in arpeggiator for midi and audio
13. Much better ACID FX than the ones included
14. Much better timestretch and pitch shifting algo's
15. More advanced beat mapping tools for music with variable time signatures
16. DXi Synths
17. A volume meter per track
18. Individual clip FX
19. Rendering in more formats
20. Much quicker opening of Plug-in Chooser
21. Option of in place audio/midi editing
22. External synth/FX midi/CC editor that integrates into ACID like a VST/i GUI
23. Midi FX
24. Rex file compatability
25. Much quicker opening of ACID

Is that enough?

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:9/18/2005 7:32:49 PM

"Is that enough?"

No, you forgot to mention integration with external control surfaces (Mackie Control protocol etc).

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/19/2005 12:04:02 AM

Yes, very important. And templates for other controllers. Anything else?

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/19/2005 9:52:49 AM

Is that enough?

Not quite. You forgot the kitchen sink. LOL

I'm not sure the time stretching/pitch shifting algorithm can get any better. There's only so much can do before it's beyond your control.

Seriously, I wouldn't expect every last thing on that list to get into the next version. However, they do say good things come to those who wait.

Right, jumbuk? *ahem*...
mu...mu...muhahahahaha....

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/19/2005 10:42:07 AM

How about implimenting what Digital Performer did - Celemony like pitch shifting and time stretching in every audio track!

We can but dream - but it's not impossible - if MOTU can do it then why not the mighty Sony?

I think Sony need to pull out all the stops with the next upgrade otherwise they'll be so far behind the other hosts. I love ACID's ergonomics but I think it needs to be developed effectively if it's going to atttract more users in the future.

It's such a shame that ACID is not even considered a contender on the self-proclaimed 'pro' audio forums any longer and it seems to be considered a bit redundant elsewhere too. Hardly anyone uses it on KVR so I don't even bother discussing it there. Which is a shame because there are a good mix of people who develop and use a wide variety of audio software.

I'm such an ACID fan and seldom use Live 4 and Sonar 4 now that I've moved back to ACID since version 5. I may be expecting too much but shoot for the stars and you'll end up in the gutter...er...no that's the wrong saying. Anyway, you get the idea - here's hoping.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Illogical

Date:9/19/2005 1:35:17 PM

That's a good list there Spectralis, especially when the control surface compatibility is added in. I also think a key ingredient would be being able to edit MIDI data in the timeline rather than in the separate Piano Roll window. I like to take a long Midi track and cut and paste parts of it here and there, but then if I want to edit a piece, I've gotta figure out where it falls on the original data timeline, open the piano editor, make the change, close the editor, and then listen to the part and see if it worked. Being able to do this directly in the timeline would be a big help for a lot of reasons.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: HYPERFLASH

Date:9/19/2005 2:46:29 PM

I have to say I would have to agree w/ #14 TIME STRETCH. Its pretty bad when you can go and download a shareware program that does a better job than acid in this respect. Probably won't happen due to licencing issues but I would LOVE to see Prosoniq's time stretch packaged with A6 ( but since it comes w/ Sonar, probably won't happen) oh well.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: djriko

Date:9/20/2005 9:36:59 AM

i would love it if there were a way to lock a selection of events together so that you could move them along the timeline as a group. that would save a lot of time for me.

The nesting folder kind of does this, but not as well as i'd hoped.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/20/2005 10:39:14 AM

djriko and Illogical: Good things come to those who wait. :)

Spectralis: You want to automate pitch shifting and time stretching? That requires a bit of bending the rules as far as ACID's concerned unless we're talking about a track that does not adhere to ACID's project-wide pitch shifting or time stretching (like One-shots).

Of course, that opens up another can of worms. If you make the track independent of the ACID project, it obviously will not follow the rest of the ACID project when it changes tempo or key.

HYPERFLASH: I beg to differ. Any application will eventually show some artifacting, I don't care what it is. Those are just the rules of digital audio. You can only get away with so much.

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/20/2005 10:59:38 AM

If a loop is chopped up then individual parts of it can be pitchshifted in ACID. Right click on loop, adjust pitch. There doesn't need to be any change in the way loops are pitchshifted or timestretched in ACID.

The process doesn't need to be automated. I'd just like to see better algo's to achieve better results. The same goes for timestretched audio - better results would be nice. Ableton has achieved this and so has MOTU so I think it can be achieved by the giant Sony.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: merlyn

Date:9/20/2005 11:57:15 AM

mD: You just said something that I've never even thought of before. Is there a good reason why certain tracks in Acid couldn't circumvent Acid's "loop paradigm" and, therefore, be free of the rules and restrictions of being loop based? For example, why couldn't you insert a midi track and NOT have it be treated like a loop? Would this open up the possibility of Acid acting like a "true" midi sequencer?

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: DJ_Don

Date:9/20/2005 4:17:19 PM

"Is there a good reason why certain tracks in Acid couldn't circumvent Acid's "loop paradigm" and, therefore, be free of the rules and restrictions of being loop based? For example, why couldn't you insert a midi track and NOT have it be treated like a loop? Would this open up the possibility of Acid acting like a "true" midi sequencer?"

I totally agree, since you can already tell Acid a sound file is a "one-shot", hence it doesn't follow the rules of the "loop paradigm". Instead of Acid more or less forcing sound files to be something it recognises (loop, one-shot, beatmapped, etc), why not leave sound files un-formatted until you tell Acid what it is? That way, things like multi-track recording, better MIDI functionality, etc, can be easily brought into the Acid format and not change Acid's main function. Here are a few of my wish-list items:

Better MIDI sequencing, including the ability to assign envelopes to MIDI CC's right in the main timeline. How about an editable MIDI piano roll right in the main screen as well? Drawing, moving, tweaking MIDI notes right along with the rest of your track would absolutely rock (WITHOUT having to open a seperate window).

Here's a dream function in Acid. How about dragging a bunch of loops, one-shots, MIDI files, etc into a project. Then, right-click on each file and assign it to a MIDI note (via a MIDI learn function). You could then tell Acid if you want the file to trigger only when the key is held down, play until a MIDI note off is sent, ect. Then press record, and have the track start playing. When you hit a MIDI key to trigger a track, it records right in the timeline as if you were drawing it in. This would a) make Acid an incredible live tool, and b) make Acid a kick-ass writing tool in the studio (which it already is, this would make it even more so). I'm not sure if I explained that correctly, but suffice it to say, it would take away Live's thunder in a huge way. I can dream, now, can't I? And maybe Sony can make that dream come true? There's more on my wish list, but here's a good start. Here's to hoping...

Peace.

P.S.--Oh yeah, track freezing too please. Thanks! :o)

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: randygo

Date:9/20/2005 6:04:43 PM

I't's been asked for many ways, by many people, to have something similar to a Vegas style track. I suppose the same free-form track style could apply to MIDI data as well.

Every other loop composition program can do this these days.

Sony has seemingly abandoned its audio users of Vegas, it would be wise to bring them over to Acid before too many have migrated to Sonar.

Randy

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: HYPERFLASH

Date:9/20/2005 6:06:20 PM

mD: I understand that, but the key word here is "eventually"
I have had songs (I produce a weekly mixshow) show artifacts @ 1 & 2 % no matter what algo I use. Its very frustrating. I know stuff exists that does a MUCH better job than ACID. I just don't know why they don't embrace the technology.
I love everything else about it, its just this one glaring issue I have a problem with.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Cheameup

Date:9/20/2005 7:46:36 PM

maybe they could fix the bugs in 5.0c first and stop it glitching out half the time ???

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:9/20/2005 8:26:31 PM

"maybe they could fix the bugs in 5.0c first and stop it glitching out half the time ??? "

- For me (and I think many others) Acid 5.0c is pretty stable. I suspect you have a unique problem relating to your setup - the good news is that you can probably fix it by entering an email dialogue with the Sony Support people.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/21/2005 11:05:40 AM

merlyn: I thought you could do that already? (In regards to treating a MIDI track like a loop, like painting, drawing, chopping, etc.) Or are you referring to the control that DJ Don mentioned?

Spectralis: Certain material translates better to other tempos and keys than others. For example, I wouldn't really even bother with going too far in percentage (if at all) with distorted guitar loops. Too much flamming goes on otherwise for my tastes.

I'd really just prefer to work with them in their original tempos. (As an added bonus, I can just record them myself at the preferred tempo, since I play the instrument.)

Sound Forge is actually pretty good with time stretching samples. So is ACID Pro's stretch marker ability, which can make a loop sound that much better when stretching. I highly encourage anyone to check that feature out if they never have.

To everyone: I wish I could say more (there's the Secret Squirrel stuff to keep in mind), other than to say that—again—good things come to those who wait. ;o)

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Ben 

Date:9/21/2005 11:44:35 AM

>>> HYPERFLASH: I beg to differ. Any application will eventually show some artifacting, I don't care what it is. Those are just the rules of digital audio. You can only get away with so much. <<<

Hmmm. As Hyperflash says, the key word here is eventually. If you'd heard Prosoniq's MPEX algorithms, you'd know what we were talking about. Like it or not, they're a million miles away from ACID's. They are very CPU intensive though, but it'd certainly be nice to have an option to use such algos when needed. With MPEX you can stretch full songs plus or minus 20 per cent with often very little artifacts it all. It really is incredible technology.

Sadly it seems with ACID, as with Forge and Vegas in other ways, the programmers have rested on their laurels and left many core parts of the program (in this case time stretching - which is key to ACID) unchanged. It's similary the case with Sound Forge - the shipped processes and effects haven't changed or been updated/developed for nigh on 10 years!! And Vegas, now severely lacking in audio features, is unfortunately full of broken functionality and bolted-on features that only half work. Again an app that, when launched, showed amazing promise.

Did anyone say "dropped the ball"... ?

Ben

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/21/2005 11:56:16 AM

Check out the pitch shifting and timestretching capabilities of V-Vocal in Sonar 5.

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/sonar/Upgrade/vvocalextras.asp

This is the quality we need in ACID. If Roland can do it then should we expect anything less from Sony? Ben is right, timestretching is a key technology in ACID. It's the basis of ACID's loop orientated approach.

I really hope you're right mD that Sony aren't resting on their laurels for all our sakes.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/21/2005 12:19:24 PM

One thought just struck me, Cakewalk are working with Roland, Yamaha with Steinberg and Mackie with Tracktion. They all have a history of creating gear for musicians whereas Sony doesn't have the same pedigree. Their technologal development has focused on the consumer of music rather than the musician.

I own the Sony Oxford plugins for Poco so I'm contradicting myself here but I still think Sony haven't been a mover and shaker in the world of technology for musicians in the same way that Yamaha, Roland, Korg etc. etc. have been. Perhaps that's why Sony is lagging behind? Maybe they don't have access to some of the technology the other hosts are incorporating.

Sony may have invented the CD and created a few great desks/plugins but is that enough for them to catch up with the other big music tech companies?

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: merlyn

Date:9/21/2005 1:33:31 PM

mD: Actually I think myself and DJDon were on the same page, but in reference to you're question, I'm pretty sure that you CAN'T turn of "loop" paradigm for midi in Acid. In other words, Acid doesn't view midi as anything other than a loop. If I'm wrong and anyone knows how to do that, I would sure like to know.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/21/2005 3:04:03 PM

Yes, there is only the loop mode for midi which is quite restrictive :(

I don't know if any of you split your midi drum tracks and assign them to sounds from one drum synth. If you do you'll notice that sometimes it's not possible to add VST effects to individual drum sounds. If the drum synths stereo out is all that's available it's only possible to add the effect to the whole synth which means all the sounds are affected equally.

Midi tracks can't be routed to busses either it appears. The drums can be routed to different drum synth outs and effected this way but that's only if ACID recognises more than the drum synths stereo out. And it means adding effects in the mixer page rather in the track.

I think this is an inconvenience and it possibly turns people off of ACID. Especially if they're used to any of the other hosts and the midi facilities and effects routings they offer. I think this is a shame because ACID has many good qualities such as its audio looping capabilities. But even here ACID seems to be loosing ground.

I hope the Sony devs read and take note of this and other threads in this forum suggesting improvements because I think, as ACID users, many of us have experience of ACID in comparison with other hosts that's worth considering.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Ben 

Date:9/21/2005 3:10:39 PM

The scary thing is guys... I think it's been a long time since the management/the developers have listened to us on these forums. For many years now a lot of us having been constantly telling them what we want and have we need; I'm talking fairly basic modern DAW essentials here. Same situation with Vegas. But little is forthcoming. Many forum goers have long left and given up.

I still love these apps but sadly I'm not holding my breathe about their future prospects in the pro audio realm.

Ben

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: DJ_Don

Date:9/21/2005 3:47:52 PM

"The scary thing is guys... I think it's been a long time since the management/the developers have listened to us on these forums."

As much as I would love to say that's wrong, to a point I agree with that statement. Remember this thread?

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=1&MessageID=326927

Sony could go back to that thread and get a HUGE list of requests for Acid 5 that were never implemented, and put at least some of them in 6. Let me state flat out that I am NOT a software developer or code writer, so I'll admit I don't know what it takes to upgrade any type of software, much less Acid. However, almost EVERY feature request ever asked for is in another software app, so it must be doable. One of the biggest hurdles in updating the MIDI sequencer in Acid has to be the fact that it is an OPT plugin, so it's not completely written into the Acid code--more like it is tacked on top of it. To truly make the sequencer better, I would think that the development team would almost have to start from the ground up. I have my doubts that that will happen, although I'm really hoping. I could be way off base here, but I don't think I am. One thing I personally hope Sony does NOT do in the next upgrade is add a lot of new effects plugins or softsynths. I have plenty of great ones already (UAD, Waves, Korg Legacy, etc), and I would not want my upgrade dollars to go towards more stuff I don't need. Some people may be dying for better effects and more synths, so that's just my personal feeling. I know that none of the DAWS out there satisfy everyone, and there will always be things missing. But when you have a big portion of your user base asking for a particular thing (at least the part of your user base that feels strongly enough about the product to write on this forum), you really should address it. MIDI has been talked about a TON, and Sony needs to step it up. Sorry for any long-winded ranting here, but like I said above, here's to hoping.

Peace.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: merlyn

Date:9/21/2005 5:53:11 PM

Ben: I'm more than with you on that, but we can hope. I'm just not getting my expectations up too high

DJDon: Do you consider that a long winded rant? Take a look back at some of the posts when Acid 5 came out (mine included)! Now those were long winded! =)

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:9/21/2005 6:25:51 PM

"Seriously, I wouldn't expect every last thing on that list to get into the next version. However, they do say good things come to those who wait.

Right, jumbuk? *ahem*..."

I am a bit slow - thanks, Iacobus - I understand now what u are saying! Great news!!

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/21/2005 11:22:40 PM

"I understand now what u are saying! Great news!!"

Are the rest of us missing some update news?

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Ben 

Date:9/22/2005 3:18:16 AM

Hmmm. Beta testers (mD) tend to say things like this. A certain person says similar things on Vegas video forum... generally only for the rest of us to be disappointed.

The truth of the matter is, we're not going to be satisfied with ACID 7 unless it combines multitrack editing/recording/features of Vegas with proper midi sequencing... with of course existing ACID functionality. And the kitchen sink. But seriously, unless we see ACID actively going in this sort of direction in a substantial way, I think it's going to be all over for a lot of people. Sony have now had three or four versions when they've known <exactly> what the market is asking for.

What don't we want? Another generally useless feature like Groove Templates. Get into the meat of the problem Sony!

Ben

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/22/2005 4:37:44 AM

Spectralis I read your feature request list and was wondering if you could go into more detail about a few things...

1. A proper piano roll editor...
Define "proper" and where did you see it last? ie:sonar/traction/P5/cubase?What tools/workflow did you see that impressed you sooo much? What type of setup do you have?[midi gear] What type of work do you hope to get done? Workflow???

4. Enhanced/improved loop editing for audio and midi
What type of editing? Explain in detail.

10. VST/VSTi troubleshooting tools
???? I don't think I've ever seen anything like this. I don't think steinberg has anything like this or their software would always work.[and it doesn't]

11. Enhanced groove tools
Enhanced how? Whats wrong with what you got already?

12. Built in arpeggiator for midi and audio
How do you arpegiate audio. Like celemony???
http://www.celemony.com/index.html

16. DXi Synths
Why? What does it buy? What can be done differently with a dxi than a vsti?

19. Rendering in more formats...
What formats?

24. Rex file compatability
Why?

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/22/2005 4:37:45 AM

Double post sorry. :(

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/22/2005 6:53:30 AM

> The truth of the matter is, we're not going to be satisfied with ACID 7 unless it combines multitrack editing/recording/features of Vegas with proper midi sequencing... with of course existing ACID functionality.

Let’s concentrate on what we want in ACID 6 first. ;-) We have all asked for exactly those functions and share your sentiment. Many of us (myself include) believe that this is where ACID needs to go.

> Sony have now had three or four versions when they've known <exactly> what the market is asking for.

Actually, Sony has had only one version. All versions prior to that were SonicFoundry. Being a software architect myself, I can tell you that we are still bound to the direction that “management” thinks a product should go it regardless of what we think/know is right. That was SonicFoundry, this is Sony. It’s under new management now. The development team knows exactly what we want.

ACID 5 had an incredible time constraint placed on it because the company was being sold and too much time had passed since the last release so they had to figure out what they could release “quickly” which may not have been “all” that they would have liked to release. Let’s give them a chance with ACID 6 to show us what they’re really made of.

~jr

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/22/2005 9:39:08 AM

If I remember correctly, Prosoniq's MPEX algorithm does not do it in real time; it's an offline process. Cakewalk admitted this themselves when pressed on the issue concerning SONAR. It's not used for their ACID looping-type features.

Would anyone here like to have an ACID project "render" on any tempo changes if it were to follow a similar path (using something similar to Prosoniq's MPEX algorithm)?

I really, really wish I could say more. I really do. So I guess this is my cue...

mu...mu...muhahahahahaha...

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/22/2005 9:55:24 AM

I'll try to elaborate:

1. A proper piano roll editor...
I think Sonar, Logic and Cubase offer a versatile piano roll editor. I would like ACID to at least match the capabilities of the midi editing facilities of these three.

4. Enhanced/improved loop editing for audio and midi
Again I refer to the midi capabilities of Sonar, including MFX plugins. Live 5 has many tools for loop editing that I would love to see in ACID. I mean, look around at whats happening in the world of loop editing plugins and the inspiration isn't hard to find.

10. VST/VSTi troubleshooting tools
The Cakewalk Adapter is one tool that provides enhanced VST/i functionality. Tempo related effects can be switched on and off. Plugins can be defined as VST or VSTi. Projects opened in Sonar will 'remember' missing plugins. Plugins that crash Live will be ignored so that it's possible to open projects. Toubleshooting dodgy plugins is the aim so that they can either be excluded or adjusted so that they work.

11. Enhanced groove tools
How about some of the groove tools in Live for a start? It would be nice if audio in ACID was more elastic so that different grooves could be used. The current groove tool is clunky imo. It's difficult to see clearly how the groove of the audio is being altered. Examine how Devine Machine works - there's plenty out there to gain inspiration from.

12. Built in arpeggiator for midi and audio
I think Camelspace is one example of how audio can be chopped up and patterns created that change octave. The sound from a synth can be arpeggiated then why not the sound of an audio file?

16. DXi Synths
I believe some synths are DXi only. If most of the major synth devs are incorporating a DXi option then why not Sony?

19. Rendering in more formats...
I could make a list of lossy/lossless formats...but, seeing as we're on the internet and audio is stored as or whizzing around in many different formats I think ACID would benefit from trying to keep up to date in this regard.

24. Rex file compatability
Because then we could make use of all the rex files available and make better use of Spectrasonics innovative technology based on the rex format.

The onus is not on us, the consumer, to innovate. It's on the developer. As others have rightly pointed out, Sony has had plenty of feedback about what we would like to see incorporated in ACID.

Did Sonar users ask Cakewalk to incorporate the capabilities of V-Vocal? Possibly, but the Cakewalk devs got their creative hats on and came up with this innovation. Did Cubase users request Steinberg incorporate in-place midi editing? Maybe, but the devs made it happen in their own special way.

It feels like Sony is defensive about their products capabilities rather than embracing new ideas and innovating. If they had half the vision of the Ableton team then we really would be trying to keep up with the Sony devs rather than repeating our requests. It's not our job to develop ACID but then again it doesn't seem clear who is driving the car or where it's going.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Ben 

Date:9/22/2005 10:13:44 AM

>>> It feels like Sony is defensive about their products capabilities rather than embracing new ideas and innovating. If they had half the vision of the Ableton team then we really would be trying to keep up with the Sony devs rather than repeating our requests. It's not our job to develop ACID but then again it doesn't seem clear who is driving the car or where it's going. <<<

Very well said. Best paragraph I've read in a long time that pretty much sums it up nicely. We're frustrated <because> we love the products and see so much potential in them - more, it seems, than the developers or management. Those mysterious figures we sadly no longer see in these forums.

(JR - my bad - I meant to say ACID 6. Was thinking of Vegas!)

Ben

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/22/2005 10:26:01 AM

I've gotten to know people like Peter over the years. He's very dedicated at what he does. At the time he's very busy. You may not know it, but he does monitor from time to time. Don't shortchange people like him for their efforts.

For the record, some from Sony have chosen to stay away from this forum by those who chose to be confrontative rather than willing to work with the developers and programmers to make ACID a better app.

There are some things I'd like to see in ACID Pro myself. That being the case, I can still get along with what I have right now. (Note the italics.) As I'm sure most of you are. Magic can't be made overnight.

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/22/2005 12:11:39 PM

No one is shortchanging anyone. We're raising legitimate and constructive criticism which is what you ask for in the second paragraph of your post.

I don't think anyone has been rude in this thread. I can't speak for the past as I was not involved in that dialogue.

I can still get along with Sonar 1 but that's not the point. It's been a very long year of nights waiting for the magic to arrive so it's not unusual for a little impatience.

Unfortunately you're the only person who has info about the upgrade (not your fault you can't disclose) so it's a bit like promising the lottery without knowing the winning numbers.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/22/2005 3:53:52 PM

>>> It feels like Sony is defensive about their products capabilities rather than embracing new ideas and innovating. If they had half the vision of the Ableton team then we really would be trying to keep up with the Sony devs rather than repeating our requests. It's not our job to develop ACID but then again it doesn't seem clear who is driving the car or where it's going. <<<

Bro I asked you a simple question...be specific. And you beat around the bush. What things in the other apps piano roll do you like? NOT "do it liike they do". You've got to do better than that. What lossy/lossless formats are there that I don't already see in the render drop down menu?

Sure the developer needs to innovate...but don't give these companys more credit than they deserve. It comes from the brainstorming of individuals like you and I that make apps what they are...that and a decent R&D budget.

Again...Go back to the list and be specific on items like...

Piano roll editor...
Enhanced/improved loop editing for audio and midi...
Enhanced groove tools...

BTW...I'm not flaming/attacking. The features in sonar 5 took how long to get right? And everybody wants that tomorrow. Sit tight. They do know what you/me/everybody wants. What version of acid are you using?

You do know acid exposes more than just the stereo outputs of a vsti right?
I can have BFD be stereo/groups/all/ultra...

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/22/2005 5:16:12 PM

Anyone can download the demo of Sonar and examine how the piano roll/midi editing works. Anyone can examine the midi FX and features in Sonar and Live to understand what the competition offers in comparison to ACID.

I've listed specific midi and audio changes I would like in this thread. Other's have too. The issue of being restricted to using midi loops has been raised. Scrolling along the timeline to input midi into the piano roll is affected by this protocol. If you're looking for specifics they're in this thread and the many others requesting improvements.

I don't think it's generalising to compare and contrast hosts. Claiming that it's too much of a generalisation to examine what Sonar's piano roll etc. has to offer in comparison with ACID isn't doing the research - it's dismissing a valid comparison.

http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/loopinvasion.htm

The link above is a comparison between ACID 5, Sonar 4 & Cubase SX 3. It would be interesting to re-evalute this now that Sonar 5 is here. Live 5 hasn't been included unfortunately.

What this comparison doesn't show are things like the lack of synth CC envelopes in ACID even though it has VSTi synths. I'm not employed by Sony R&D so it's not fair to expect me to come up with the ideas or give exhaustive descriptions of facilities in other hosts that could be incorporated in ACID. R&D begins with research and that includes the competition.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/22/2005 6:04:23 PM

So your coping out on any specifics other than go try the sonar demo? Good one...In terms of a R&D budget imagine you had only a select amount of features to be done in a span of time. And everybody says "do like they all do now" without thinking it took the other guys 3-4 versions to get it right...What do you see as being crucial?

Quit the "I'm not employed by sony" BS dude. All I'm saying is maybe your workflow might be differeent or more innovative idea wise than whats in all the other apps. Which in turn benefits the rest of us. If all your going to say is "like how the rest do it" then whatever...

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/22/2005 6:15:38 PM

You're just being confrontational and pedantic. If you want to turn this thread into a troll fest then I'm not going to bite.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: merlyn

Date:9/22/2005 7:37:23 PM

SHTUNOT: "And everybody says "do like they all do now" without thinking it took the other guys 3-4 versions to get it right"

You definately have a point, but Acid is neck and neck version wise with the "other guys" (except maybe Cubase). Actually, many are only on version 5 or so. Acid is coming up on 6. Now, it's been debated here time and again as to why Acid (in some peoples opinions) is playing catch up to the rest of the industry, so that doesn't really need to be rehashed (you've been here more than long enough to know that....lol). You may be of the school that believes that.....maybe not, but according to your statement above, this go around should give us something to chew on....right? Let's hope you're right!

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: MyST

Date:9/22/2005 7:59:49 PM

Acid was never meant to be a direct competitor with Cubase, Sonar, etc.
It has evolved well though, and now alot of us would like it to "go that extra bit" to fill our vastly varying needs.
It's amazing how many people say... If it had just *this* added, I'd be very happy! It needs *this* to remain competitive.
Go back and see just how many people complained when Sonic Foundry added midi to Acid in the first place! Let me save you the trouble and condense some of the feedback... "Screw midi and give me Rewire!"
The best thing one can do, is use the Support-Product Suggestion form and explain clearly how ones's suggested feature request would be beneficial.
Hopefully you've done that.

Mario

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/22/2005 9:05:21 PM

> Midi tracks can't be routed to busses either it appears.

How could you route MIDI data to an Audio bus? What do you expect the Audio bus to do with the MIDI note-on and note-off messages? What you CAN do in ACID Pro 5 is route the MIDI SoftSyth to a Bus. Is this what you mean? ACID does this.

> The drums can be routed to different drum synth outs and effected this way but that's only if ACID recognises more than the drum synths stereo out.

ACID 5 does exactly this. What version are you using? I have several VSTi’s that have 8 or 16 outs exposed in ACID. It sounds like you’re not using ACID Pro 5 and if you’re not, you are asking for things that ACID already has.

> You're just being confrontational and pedantic. If you want to turn this thread into a troll fest then I'm not going to bite.

I don’t think that was Ed’s intent. His point is, it would be terrible if Sony took your advice to make their MIDI more like SONAR and implemented 75% of the features that SONAR has but left out the 25% that you really cared about. That’s why it’s important to be specific in your requests. What exactly do you need to be in ACID?

What are the audio formats that ACID can’t render that you need? What is it about SONARS piano roll that is so great? I don’t use the piano roll much so honestly, when I go look at SONARS, it looks the same to me. You can paint notes, erase notes, move notes, etc. It has some drum map stuff but I use ACID loops for drums so I don’t care about MIDI drum maps but you might. That’s why it’s important to be more exact. If you don’t care about MIDI drum maps then why should ACID implement them just because SONAR has them?

> The onus is not on us, the consumer, to innovate.

Yes but the onus is on us, the customer, to articulate our needs as clearly as possible so that we are not misunderstood.

If Sony announced ACID 6 and the features list said: ACID 6 now has more audio formats. You would be asking, which ones? Because you would be looking for the ones you care about. That’s all Ed was asking. What if Sony added support for EPAC, TAC, and VQF. Would that make you run out and buy ACID 6? Which audio formats do you really care about?

The Sony folks do watch these forums and the more precise you can be in your request, the more efficient they can be in providing it to you. You’ve got a good list there but it just needs some clarification. I believe that’s all Ed was trying to accomplish. We all want to see ACID get better.

~jr

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/23/2005 1:34:30 AM

I wrote in this thread that I'd like to see the midi loop aspect of the piano roll changed. As far as I'm concerned that's a specific request. If I give specifics and they're ignored then it feels like trolling to be asked repeatedly for specifics.

I'd like to be able to render to/open .ape, .flac and OMF.

I'd like to open FX in the synth track rather than the mixer page. This will follow the way effects are opened in an audio track and offer a consistant workflow. Live 4 allows audio and midi FX to be opened in the synth track.
I'll give a couple of examples of why I think the current set-up is restrictive. I've been trying to limit the output of a bass patch of a synth. When I insert a limiter into the synth buss FX chain it has no effect. Yet if I use the same limiter as an effect in an audio track the audio is limited. How do I limit the output of a synth?
Or, I may want to route the synth outputs to a buss where I've set up an effects chain but there is no way to do this. Inconsistancies like these are what restrict workflow imo.

I'm not able to mindread Ed's intention. All I know is that there's no point in responding to insults.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/23/2005 5:11:06 AM

> I'd like to see the midi loop aspect of the piano roll changed. As far as I'm concerned that's a specific request.

Sorry I missed that one too. I would like to see ACID allow the setting of loop points in a MIDI loop and only play that part over and over. I know Project 5 does this and I though it as very useful. Is that what you mean?

> I'd like to be able to render to and open .ape, .flac and OMF.

Cool.

> I've been trying to limit the output of a bass patch of a synth. When I insert a limiter into the synth buss FX chain it has no effect. Yet if I use the same limiter as an effect in an audio track the audio is limited. How do I limit the output of a synth?

That shouldn’t be. Applying FX to the synth buss should be the same as applying it to an audio track. It works that way for me. Is it only with limiters? How about if you add a reverb? Can you hear that?

> Or, I may want to route the synth outputs to a buss where I've set up an effects chain but there is no way to do this.

Click on the Bus-to-Bus router button and route the synth to another bus. I do it all the time. What version of ACID are you using?

> All I know is that there's no point in responding to insults.

I agree 100%. We should not be insulting each other. As my sister keeps reminding me "Seek first to understand, Then to be understood". I guess we all have "selective hearing" at times. ;-)

~jr

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:9/23/2005 6:00:45 AM

"I would like to see ACID allow the setting of loop points in a MIDI loop and only play that part over and over. I know Project 5 does this and I though it as very useful. Is that what you mean?"

That's not what I meant but it's a feature I'd like too. What I'm thinking of is using the piano roll in a linear way so that I can input midi events anywhere on the time line in a track. At the moment it appears that only one midi loop can be used in a track. I can chop up a midi loop and paste it anywhere on the track so perhaps that is an alternative to loops points but I'd welcome them if others would like that option.

"Click on the Bus-to-Bus router button and route the synth to another bus. I do it all the time. What version of ACID are you using?"

I'm using ACID 5 PRO and didn't think of that so thanks for that advice. I'd still like to handle synth FX in the synth track rather than the mixer pane. The other issue is that I can't seem to control synth or FX using automation envelopes in a buss. That would be useful.

"Applying FX to the synth buss should be the same as applying it to an audio track."

That's what I assumed because you're right, verbs and other effects seem to work but I can't get any of my limiters (UAD-1, Poco and native ones) to limit a synth buss. I don't know why this is. I'm adding the limiter at the end of an FX chain in the synth buss so it should work. It does on an audio track.

"We should not be insulting each other. "

I think you and your sister offer wise advice. Generally, I think this forum has been very constructive and helpful. People seem to behave in a respectful manner to one another usually. I'm not too obstinate to learn from others but I'm more receptive when it's done in a fraternal way. I accept that people get frustrated with one another sometimes (my written language can sometimes confuse as well as illuminate meaning) but in my experience it can become difficult to have a constructive discussion on a forum if it becomes too confrontational.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/23/2005 6:22:38 AM

Spectralis...I asked you a honest question. I was curious about your opinion...thats it. Why you feel I'm making you out to be a troll is beyond me.


Instead of posting all of that to make me look bad you could have just posted what you did about the render to/open .ape, .flac and OMF...Cool was that so hard. I never even heard of 2 of those so thanks for the input.


BTW...could you please fill out your system specs in your bio that way if your having a issue sony can just browse over instead of having to waste time asking you it later.

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/23/2005 6:32:09 AM

>>>but I can't get any of my limiters (UAD-1, Poco and native ones) to limit a synth buss.<<<

Could you please give a step by step so I can try to repro...

1)What is your acid project setup? 16bit/44.1,5 busses,buffer size[256?],etc...
2)Which vsti's are you using+version #...ie:bfd 1.5 build 25 etc...
3)What build of the uad plugins...3.9.0 right?

Anything else?

Thanks.

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/23/2005 9:38:05 AM

> I'd still like to handle synth FX in the synth track rather than the mixer pane.

That would probably require adding another track to the timeline like SONAR does. I never liked that. If it could be done with one track I would agree but that would probably confuse people. Maybe what we need is another area for the synth buses to separate them from the audio buses.

> The other issue is that I can't seem to control synth or FX using automation envelopes in a buss. That would be useful.

You can do that now. Add an FX to the Synth bus. Type the ‘B’ key to view the busses. Right-click the bus track for the synth and add an Automated FX envelope. You can control the Synth from an envelope but you can control the FX automation.

Now that I think of it, maybe if we had a way to display just the synth buses on the timeline under the MIDI track that would help with your first request. I think I would prefer this too.

> I think you and your sister offer wise advice.

Yea, well... she is my Big sister so I guess that’s her job to keep her little brother in line. :)

~jr

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Paulie

Date:9/23/2005 11:26:07 AM

I have to thank ACID for getting me into music making at all. I looked at Cubase and a few others at the time. For most non musicians ACID would still be a perfect place to start. It is easy to forget how awesome the time stretching is on ACID and how seamlessly it is implemented.

After a while I started to want to record Audio, Multitrack, play MIDI parts. Working in ACID became a huge chore. I have only recently departed to Tracktion but ONLY when I was convinced that Rewiring back to ACID was OK. I now have the best of both worlds and I can love Acid again for what it is and not for what it isnt.

My wish for Version 6 would be to make ACID the best loop handling tool on the planet and REALLY innovate in this area and forget trying to become everything to everybody.

Paulie

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/23/2005 5:28:31 PM

Unfortunately you're the only person who has info about the upgrade (not your fault you can't disclose) so it's a bit like promising the lottery without knowing the winning numbers.

Who said I had info about the upgrade?

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Weevil

Date:9/24/2005 11:52:32 AM

I think the ‘Sony’ updates of both ACID and Vegas were easily the best the two applications had received in years.

The Vegas update was a total disaster for audio people but by all accounts the video folk have been in raptures about it. Seems to have taken the application into a whole new league in terms of video.

And the ACID update seemed very well targeted to me, it had loads of extremely practical new features.

There has always been is an ongoing battel between keeping the applications focused on their core functionality and updating them with swanky new features and directions. Sony/SF have always leaned heavily towards the former.

But time marches on and again ACID seems like it is falling behind the pace.

Be very interesting to see what direction take and what sort of dollars they spend on the next round.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Ben 

Date:9/24/2005 1:09:36 PM

>> There has always been is an ongoing battel between keeping the applications focused on their core functionality and updating them with swanky new features and directions. Sony/SF have always leaned heavily towards the former. <<

Agreed. And long standing Sony/SoFo users, myself included, seem comfortable with this. I'm absolutely happy not to have every feature under the sun à la Cubase. In my opinion this is fine <if> what I call you the core functions are all implemented brilliantly and work extremely well. But as we know, unfortunately the problem seems to be that Sony are no longer getting many of the core issues right. In the latest Vegas release, for example, there were core issues that weren't addressed - some of which were things that (for reasons we'll never understand) Sony decided to 'break' themselves. Specifically the track pan to FX and busses issue in Vegas that we all know about.

Once you've fixed things that are broken, Sony, the next thing that should be done is perfecting the core functionality. So, taking Vegas as an example as I use it more than ACID, we're talking things like improving and finishing off the mixer functionality - we need to be able to send to auxes from busses, in the same way we can from tracks. We also need to be able to properly group or gang tracks together - in my opinion this would involve taking the 'folder tracks' in ACID to its logical conclusion; the option of linking those tracks, perhaps auto-creating a bus, etc. It's crazy really - Vegas is in it's 6th version and the mixer arguably is a long way from being finished. Not because they keep adding to it, but because these issues have been ignored for a long time now. Of course the mixer issues I talk about here apply equally to ACID, which is probably why the two apps' audio functionality should be combined! And you could also apply similar arguments to the way that MIDI was added to ACID but never, so far anyway, taken to where it should be.

Finally on this, if you're not going to combine ACID and Vegas, fine. If you're not going to add ReWire to Vegas, fine-ish. That is, fine if you give us your proprietary way of sample-accurate linking ACID and Vegas. So we can get the (finger's crossed) improved MIDI functionality of ACID 6 in Vegas 7, with it's improved mixer. :)

So yes, to Sony, forget about the kitchen sink. Let ACID and Vegas do what they do well. But make sure they damn well do these things properly! Once you've done that, it's time to innovate again.

Here's to hoping.

Ben

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/25/2005 5:12:51 AM

Sounds good to me ben.

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/25/2005 8:00:16 AM

> That is, fine if you give us your proprietary way of sample-accurate linking ACID and Vegas. So we can get the (finger's crossed) improved MIDI functionality of ACID 6 in Vegas 7, with it's improved mixer. :)

Actually, I would rather see them add multi-track to ACID and let Vegas be a video app with great audio. Once ACID has multi-track recording it already has the rest (i.e., folder tracks, MIDI, ReWire, etc.). I think this would also help all the Vegas audio users who feel like second class citizens to the video users because they keep getting overlooked. Make ACID the flagship audio app, give the Vegas audio users an attractive cross-grade offer to buy, and unite the ACID and Vegas audio community to provide a better audio application for all. (wait… do you hear that?… was that a fife and drum I heard in the background playing Yankee doodle? I must be mad!) ;-)

~jr

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Weevil

Date:9/25/2005 9:06:37 AM

Indeed, I seriously doubt the audio side of Vegas will ever again see any significant advancements. Some things that are applicable to both audio and video will change, but I would be pretty surprised to see much else. I think the absolute best case scenario is Rewire or perhaps a proprietary linkage method but that would be it.

Vegas is a video app, and audio is a subset of video. It’s so far behind the other audio apps that there is no point them even pretending to play catch up.

With ACID I’m sure they will take there usual little bit of everything approach. Just all depends on which ‘everythings’ they chose this time.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:9/26/2005 5:57:37 AM

What would I like to see in version 6? How about adding Mac support? NI, Reason and others support both the PC and the Mac, why not Sony?

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: ibliss

Date:9/26/2005 7:16:53 AM

Mac Support? Don't be silly, that doesn't fit into the ACID Paradigm (tm).

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/26/2005 8:42:05 AM

What's a Mac?

>:o)

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/26/2005 9:26:10 AM

> What's a Mac?

I’m not sure. It’s either a raincoat worn in the UK or its underpowered, over-priced computer hardware with limited software options for people who are definitely cooler than me? Owning one will keep you dry while owning the other will prove that you are all wet. <VBG> :-D

Actually, I want Linux support (which should be close to Mac support since they both are derivatives of the more robust Unix operating system and soon to both run on Intel hardware (you see I can say nice things about Macs too)) Windows XP is definitely a Mac OS wannabe without the pedigree of Unix. ;-)

~jr

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Illogical

Date:9/26/2005 11:05:43 AM

Let's see, a Mac, from what I've read, is a type of computer that runs a program called GarageBand...which is a music sequencer that does close to 90% of what Acid can do (and plenty of stuff Acid doesn't do), at a price far less than it'll cost me to upgrade to Acid Pro 6.0.

In other words, please don't bother trying to get Acid Pro to work on Mac's. Just get it to be 'Pro'.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: luces1

Date:9/26/2005 7:51:35 PM

Well for my $$$$, I use Cubase SE(cheapest version) and Rewire Acid to it and WOW, what a combo!!!! I too, have been very critical of the midi paradigm in ACID, but when I realized purchasing a powerhouse sequencer like Cubase for less than an ACID upgrade,it seemed like a no brainer. The midi issue for me would have made a lot more sense to upgrade in version 4,but as soon as I realized that wasn't gonna happen I just decided to get a real midi program. To be honest I believe that Sony lost sales because the version 4 was so anemic on the midi side, but I also would not have upgraded to version 5 if it did not Rewire slave to another program. so maybe this was there solution to some of those missed sales. I tell all my buddies to go for the same setup I have because it IS so damned powerful!!!!! As far as looping goes ACID is just so EASY!!! Well, I guess that's all I gotta say. Thanks for "listening",luces.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Ben 

Date:9/28/2005 12:36:10 PM

So the answer the question anyway...

ACID 6 in October? I'd say probably yes. It's AES in, what, a couple of weeks? And mD's made no secret of the fact that he's beta testing.

Whether ACID 6 will be everything it should be, of course, hangs in the balance.

Ben

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/28/2005 1:14:52 PM

And mD's made no secret of the fact that he's beta testing.

I did? When?

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/28/2005 1:17:43 PM

MD is having fun with everybody. Remember that any beta tester can get into trouble for letting anything slip if sony doesn't ok it first. ie:due to a NDA...Non disclosure agreement.

We'll all see if acid 6 lives up to a sony funded upgrade. IMHO version 5 was worth the coin. But don't hype it toooooo much. Remember if they gave you everything in version6 there won't be any reason for version7.

To me each upgrade has gotten bigger and better in the acid world. Though they don't throw in the "kitchen sink" like cakewalk does I've enjoyed each release.

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Ben 

Date:9/28/2005 3:16:31 PM

>> I did? When?

Iacobus <<

Sigh.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: coolout

Date:9/28/2005 4:03:57 PM

i'd be really pissed if they had started beta testing and I wasn't invited.

i got asked last time but didn't respond quick enough to get in because i was in the middle of working on a big project (using acid of course).

i've used acid for years and want to do my part to make it better.

my only hope is that the GUI stays uncluttered. I thought about getting the new version on Sonar since it does just about everything now. but man...one look at a screenshot just gave me a headache.

clutter...clutter...clutter!!!

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/28/2005 5:27:15 PM

"i'd be really pissed if they had started beta testing and I wasn't invited."

So would I.

Ed.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/28/2005 6:00:55 PM

> Though they don't throw in the "kitchen sink" like cakewalk does I've enjoyed each release.

I gotta tell ya’ that one of the reason I’d don’t use SONAR much anymore is because the UI is so cluttered it looks like the dashboard of the SpaceShuttle. I don’t want to orbit the earth, I just want to record a song. That’s what I love about ACID. It is just dead simple. Whatever they add, they always manage to keep it simple. You gotta love that. I think that’s what keeps people coming back. ACID’s interface doesn’t get in the way of your creativity.

> So would I.

Yea, and if they invited Ed and didn’t invite me, well... well... they’d be off my Christmas card list for sure. ;-)

~jr

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:10/3/2005 9:29:10 AM

I'm with you guys!

Simple and uncluttered! Sure I like new features and improvements, but the reason I started using Acid was because it was so easy.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:10/27/2005 10:59:11 AM

Acid, easy ? No. Acid is is not easy, it's logical.

It's one of these smart products that are so user friendly, and so intuitive, that it makes you think you're a genious.

It's like when you see a cake, that you already know which taste it has, just by looking at it.

I think Acid is years aheads its competitors regarding this point. Hopefully.
I recently bought Cubase SX3, and I garantee you, even if it looks sweet, and even if it's bugs free, i'm much slower in getting my ideas together. Just picture this : I have a "QuickLaunch" Shortcut on my Windows taskbar to Cubase's PDF manual. Now you might get it.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Klirrfaktor

Date:10/28/2005 5:25:08 AM

i feel exactly the same about cubase sx. i tried to switch to it lately but im totally slow and feel limited when using it, since im acid addicted. a very good solution is to rewire acid to cubase. cubase brings a good stability with vst fx and vsti's which doesnt work pretty well in acid ;-( therefore i started to switch.

the main problem about acid is the performance when using large projects for me. theres no freeze and every sample needs a track.. and cubase has the really nice feature to apply fx to single samples on a track and can even undo any of these changes.

but for example.. you cannot even listen to a sample when you are listening to the project in the same time, neither are drumloops streched at realtime.. for me theres no perfect solution yet.. but rewire acid with cubase is pretty near :-)

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:10/28/2005 6:33:17 AM

> for me theres no perfect solution yet.. but rewire acid with cubase is pretty near :-)

Well... for me, if they would just add full blown MIDI sequencing and multi-track capabilities to ACID, that would be perfect! I get the sense it would be pretty darn near perfect for a lot of other users around here too.

~jr

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:10/28/2005 10:12:55 AM

I agree with the midi and multitrack improvements. I can understand some people not wanting to lose the essence of ACID (me too) but adding more options doesn't necessarily mean losing established features.

Roll on November - I hope Sony won't keep us hanging on much longer.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: merlyn

Date:10/28/2005 1:58:21 PM

Amen!

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: MyST

Date:10/28/2005 6:00:23 PM

"I get the sense it would be pretty darn near perfect for a lot of other users around here too."

Oh now THAT'S really going out on a limb with that statement... NOT!! :-)

Mario

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:11/3/2005 8:00:33 PM

I didn't "switch" to Cubase, but I added it to my audio tools. Acid Pro is still my main sketchpad (after my phone recorder), and my main sequencer.

Klirrfaktor : " the main problem about acid is the performance when using large projects for me "

I had the same issue when having hundreds (no killing) audio takes, 5 to 10 busses with at least 2 FX per busses, etc...

But I found a workaround, which is in fact, a great producer's technic : make multiple saves. It's simple, and not time waisting when you're used to do it. Let me give you an example :
You save each instrument's sequence sepearately :
Battery.acd
Voice.acd
Guitar.acd
etc...
And then you have Main.acd, with Battery.wav, Voice.wav, (etc.) in it.
That'll free your computer from a lot of process and memory overloads. Well, that's just a way to work. Freezing tracks in Cubase SX has always mess up my mind. And I don't trust History (CTRL-Z, CTRL-Y) that much. So it's a very subjectif method, but that works really well, and safely (which is really important for big projects).

Anyway, Acid Studio 6 is out... That's a great news for Pro users (wasn't it, last year ?)

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: busterkeaton

Date:11/9/2005 2:53:14 AM

I was at a Sony event in NYC and the Sony rep promised the next release of Acid was going to major. I don't know any more than that, I don't know if it was just hype, but he seemed pretty confident in it and definitely seemed to be setting the bar high.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:11/9/2005 10:53:03 AM

That's great news. Did he indicate a release date?

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: MacMoney

Date:11/9/2005 6:22:44 PM

I'm checking everyday for any word on Acid 6!

George Ware

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:11/9/2005 11:46:47 PM

Same here! It's like waiting to find out the results of exams or something like that. Aaaarrrgh! :)

Although, Sony thought adding ASIO and collapsable track folders was an exciting feature. Great though they are, I view them as bread and butter improvements rather than ground breaking advances. I hope ACID 6 has some really interesting and unique features rather than just playing catch up with other hosts.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: merlyn

Date:11/10/2005 8:05:13 AM

To be honest, I think catch up would be more than satisfactory for me. Just as long as they really catch up.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:11/10/2005 10:01:02 AM

Yeah, even that would be a huge improvement. Especially if they take some of the best bits from Sonar, Live and the others. I would like ACID to expand on it's loop based approach so that it retains it's original identity.

Even though I wish ACID had more I still love it more than Sonar and Live and I own them both. There's just something special about ACID's approach...it's like a fine wine, I can taste it but I can't put that special quality into words - that doesn't stop me banging on about it though... ;)

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: busterkeaton

Date:11/12/2005 3:51:54 PM

No.

All he said was there will be an Acid 6 and a Vegas 7 and Acid will come first. My guess was Acid was in the end stages, but that's just a total guess. He also mentioned there were going to do a promo where they mail out a Sony 2006 calendar. The calendar has has music trivia and each month there is a url you can go to for special Acid promos. (If I remember correctly, the url would have free loops. Don't quote me on that though.) He said it was going to be their biggest mailing ever. I think the calendar is Acid-specific, not Media Software in general.

Here's the teaser: the calendar starts in December 2005.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:11/13/2005 5:31:50 AM

Aha! Just in time for xmas. ;) Sounds like an interesting marketing campaign.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: danika

Date:11/16/2005 8:56:59 PM

More than likely they're shooting for release at NAMM.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:11/16/2005 11:46:10 PM

Could be but end of Jan is usually dead for retailers. They'll miss the xmas and Jan sale impulse buyers. Lots of people are low on cash at the end of Jan. Waiting 16 months in between upgrades is not usually the case either. I hope they release it before xmas.

Subject:Probably January

Reply by: busterkeaton

Date:11/22/2005 11:45:54 PM

I'm thinking January.

Anybody remember what the initial upgrade price for Acid was?

Is it the same price to upgrade from previous versions as to upgrade from 5?

Subject:RE: Probably January

Reply by: MyST

Date:11/23/2005 2:42:55 AM

Usually, the upgrade deal is from any previous Pro version.
Usually.

Mario

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: MacMoney

Date:11/23/2005 6:05:47 AM

>More than likely they're shooting for release at NAMM.

Man I hope so!

George Ware

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: busterkeaton

Date:12/2/2005 4:18:48 PM

http://www.sony.com/freeloops

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: RJ Fielder

Date:12/3/2005 6:45:33 AM

"Calenders are expected to ship mid-December". A hint of things to come?

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:12/3/2005 7:36:17 AM

I've given up anticipating. It's probably in Jan now so I'll think about it then.

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: [r]Evolution

Date:1/20/2006 1:09:08 PM

The time has finally arrived!!!

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: Spectralis

Date:1/20/2006 8:14:33 PM

Well I was nearly right in my prediction but I didn't think it would be closer to Oct 2006. :)

Subject:RE: ACID PRO 6 in October?

Reply by: busterkeaton

Date:1/21/2006 12:29:00 PM

I did recieve the calendar. I think it's worth signing up for.

A lot of loops are ones that have appeared on Acidplanet though.