Well, the issue is that I need to convert 60i to 24p accurately, and Vegas isn't the best at it.

I've tried the Vegas 6 demo - it just doesn't seem to have enough to warrant the upgrade price (I'm on a tight budget).

The workaround I've got right now is just outputting to DVFilm Maker using the CineForm codec (which is something that I'd have to do with any Vegas version) for 24p conversion, then output from DVFilm Maker as QuickTime with Motion Jpeg Compression A at perfect quality (which is just a bit higher in memory size than Cineform).

Vegas reads it just fine, and I leave the 60i Cineform cut on the timeline for smooth playback during text and effects additions.

Now, if Vegas could do a good 24p conversion, then we'd be talkin'...

Your eyes must see totally different than mine, or you must be doing something differently than me, because to me Vegas 6 blows DVFilm Maker away for 24p conversion.

I don't like the way Vegas 4/5/6 frame blends. There's no intelligent resampling of the motion, it's just a silly blend.

DVFilm Maker mathematically restructures the motion into 24p, providing a bit of a cleaner, strobier look that's more like film than the blending Vegas provides.

Trust me, I've tested all this extensively for about two years, now.

DVFilm Maker mathematically restructures the motion into 24p...

...and Magic Bullet does it even better according to a recent comparison, although at a sleepwalking snail's pace.

The best is likely to be Twixtor Pro (AE/Combustion plug-in), although this requires a lot of setup to give the best results (manually indicating scene changes and sometimes putting in motion vectors).

B_JM also recommended Digital Fusion, but this is very pricey.

I would agree on Vegas 4 & 5, but I see Vegas 6 as much improved in this regard.

Still, you should be able to go back and forth between the two programs just fine.

Tell me, have you tried both the internal and external preview with Vegas. See if turning off the external preview lets you see the video. Vegas 6b has this nasty bug where you can't see video in the external preview window that was rendered with a program other than Vegas.

It's one of those things that deserves a "c" update on it's own because it is such a horrendous bug. Anyway, so far Sony has chosen not to deal with this. In the mean time, if you can see it on the small non-external preview window, it's just a matter of a quick smart render to reset whatever flag it is that keeps Vegas from previewing. The fact that the smart render fixes it means that Vegas is merely not reading some flag or other and that the fix is probably quite simple.

Well, I didn't end up purchasing the demo for 6, so I don't know if this is a bug or not on 6 (ended up deleting the demo), but after I finish up this project, I'll give it a shot.

Still, I think my workaround, which doesn't cost me any more money, is friendlier to my lack of cash than $250 or so more.

And I was pretty sure that I played extensively with the 60i to 24p options on 6, not seeing any better results - in fact, I actually preferred 5's to 6.

The problem with doing the straight blend with HDV (for me) is that the blend is SO smooth due to all that extra info that the motion still looks video. I need strobe (personal taste, I guess).

And as far as Magic Bullet - yes, nice - but maaaannn...slow.

DVFilm Maker actually moves pretty nice, considering all that it's doing. Using the perfect quality MJPEG Quicktime codec, it spits out freshly printed 1080-24p material pretty nicely - about four to five minutes per minute of footage on my humble machine (2.8 Ghz P4 HP Pavilion, 512 MB).

What I would LOVE to see is DVFilm Maker become an optional plug-in for Vegas (I sent a few e-mails to DVFilm, no response). Also, Vegas 7 HAS to be able to match FCP HD's abilities and work natively with .m2t files as painlessly as MiniDV.

C'mon Vegas! Woot! Woot!

Eh, one can dream, right?

"Also, Vegas 7 HAS to be able to match FCP HD's abilities and work natively with .m2t files as painlessly as MiniDV."

Well, FCP5 finally met V5/V6's ability to work with HDV. From what I have read and heard, HDV looks great and renders fast in FCP5 UNLESS you do something more than basic cuts. I have been waiting forever to see Avid's update that includes HDV but it just seems more like vaporware anymore.

The only thing I have seen in FCP5 that I wished Vegas offered natively was the ability to multicam without the need for a plugin. Though Ultimate S and Excalibur do a fine job.

The ONLY place that I see Apple has passed Sony in is with their DVD Studio 4 Pro package and the ability to author HD-DVD discs which are based on the .09 specs. Personally I thought Sony would have included the ability to author WM9 HD DVDS with menu support with DVDA3. The only other option in that area at this point is Sonic and other than Scenarist, the rest of their programs are buggy and just plain suck.

I will say this though without breaking NDA. Premiere Pro 2 and Encore DVD2 have something that will put them even in the NLE category and up there with Apple in the HD-DVD authoring category. Lets just say Encore DVD2 will serve past, present, and future needs. Its just a shame that Vegas/DVDA users have to wait til next May again before they get to seriously dabble if offfering any type of Hi Def discs and Sony will HAVE to offer it to remain competitive.

Sorry for going off topic.

"I need strobe (personal taste, I guess)."

There's nothing to explain when it's a matter of preferences, but having worked with film all my life until recently I'm puzzled why you'd want strobing as a matter of course. I suppose if you want people to identify your material as being shot on film. For me the "film look" is about the dynamic range and subtlety of film emulsions.

>>>Premiere Pro 2 and Encore DVD2 have something that will put them even in the NLE category and up there with Apple in the HD-DVD authoring category.<<<

I am happy with PPro 1.5.1 and find it pretty "even" right now in the NLE wars. I think Vegas is a better "finishing" tool because of how it deals with audio however...so maybe without breaking NDA are you saying that PPRO 2 is an equal finishing tool to other finishing tools?

Well Im not sure what I can say but I will say this. Later this year, there will be two NLEs and their authoring systems to go from HDV to H.264 AVC on a DVD and the other will also add WM9 HD with full menu, motion backgrounds, multiple audio track support. Ill leave it up to everyone to figure out who the other one is besides Apple. There, I think I skirted the NDA.

What will be the advantage of having H.264 AVC on a dvd? Will there be any set top boxes that will be able to play it. The I-O Data/JVC box can currently play .wmv video (but not the .wmv audio) if I understand correctly. Will H.246 videos be playable on HD-DVD or Blue-Ray players? If so, then I could definitely see its use.

h264 is a Blu-Ray and HD-DVD standard, and soon all set top players will manage h264. Get used to it being around, cuz' it's here for a while, and so far...only getting better.

Okay, I've given it some thought and I'm going to try the Vegas 6 demo again, since before I wasn't able to properly test the Cineform functions (I hadn't bought Connect HD).

As far as the strobing, it's just a personal taste. I've always liked clean and cut as opposed to smooth and possibly blended.

Also, forgive me "noobishness", but what is "NDA"? Was I breeching some sort of rule by talking about outside software?

If so, sorry!

NDA=Non Disclosure Agreement.
If someone tells you something about a product they've signed an NDA on, they have to then duct-tape your lips closed with real duct-tape, no gaffers tape. Then they have to byte down on the cyanide tooth implant that is given with the NDA. :>)

Ahh...

But nobody ever tells me anything...

:-(