Subject:Rescuing a Flat-sounding cassette tape

Posted by: Sound Dog

Date:7/13/2005 9:17:41 PM

Hi all, I found a really good thread on this site (from about a year ago) about trying to improve the sound from an old cassette tape. I'm running into some similar issues with an older tape now, but I wanted to ask about taking a possible different slant on it. The sound is real flat & lo-fi (one channel is lower volume than the other too, not surprisingly). Ironically enough, there isn't all that much noise--and Dolby settings hurt more than they help. I could tinker with some Sony NR settings but noise isn't all that bad.

Obviously it's "Garbage In Garbage Out"--and I can only expect so much out of the old tape. But I was wondering if anyone's ever tinkered with trying to improve a cassette's sound using SoundForge INSTEAD OF USING THE DECK'S BUILT-IN BIAS SETTINGS???

I have tried every combination on 3 different decks--using different "flavors" of Dolby NR with/without Metal, CrO2, Normal. The original tape is CrO2 but CrO2 EQ settings don't help much (and I've found to be worse than "normal" EQ).

I don't recall seeing any ways to "fake" these (or other) tape EQ settings by using SF8 instead of the deck's settings. But I don't deal with tape very often. I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who's had success in doing so. Or if you've figured any other tricks that might improve the quality somewhat..

Thanks in advance!
Sound Dog
Colorado USA

Subject:RE: Rescuing a Flat-sounding cassette tape

Reply by: mpd

Date:7/14/2005 4:43:10 AM

You are going to have to do some poking around, but you may have a mismatch with the DOlby NR scheme (ie, it was encoded with B, but you are decoding with C).

Dolby NR is basially an particular implementation of multiband dynamics. You may be able play with this process in SF to fix your tape, but I can't remember if SF can do multiband upward expansion.

Subject:RE: Rescuing a Flat-sounding cassette tape

Reply by: Sound Dog

Date:7/14/2005 7:23:11 AM

Thanks mpd for responding!

I guess I should have pointed to the old thread--here is the link: http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=3&MessageID=302327

Thanks also for the comments about Dolby settings and mismatch possibilities. It still looks to me like Dolby isn't the answer; all Dolby settings (at least on cassette decks) seem to hurt more than help. I believe the recording was done without Dolby.

If anyone can recommend any particular settings to experiment within SF I would still very much appreciate your input.

Thanks again mpd!

Sound Dog
Colorado USA

Subject:RE: Rescuing a Flat-sounding cassette tape

Reply by: bnjenter

Date:7/14/2005 9:49:54 AM

Sound Dog,

Try the guys over at http://www.crossfade-forums.net/. Some of these guys know a ton.
They'll be glad to help

Subject:RE: Rescuing a Flat-sounding cassette tape

Reply by: rraud

Date:7/14/2005 9:55:16 AM

In addidtion, the azmuth adj., internal HF-eq, ect. could be off, either on the record deck or your play back machine. However I would not advise touching it unless you have a calibation test tape and know what your doing to bring the machine back to specs after futzing with it.
Or.. try a HF exiter like the Aphex, BBE, or plug-in like the free RGB.

Subject:RE: Rescuing a Flat-sounding cassette tape

Reply by: Sound Dog

Date:7/14/2005 11:31:39 AM

Thank you both for your responses. As for the tape deck adjustments, I think I'll not muck with them.

It's probably more to do with the old tape than my decks (although I wouldn't rule out that they might need some TLC).

I'll look thru the crossfade forum history before I sign up over there.

Thanks again!
Sound Dog

Subject:RE: Rescuing a Flat-sounding cassette tape

Reply by: plasmavideo

Date:7/14/2005 12:59:13 PM

One other thing to consider. If the azimuth was off on the original record deck heads or on your playback deck, you probably have a phase shift between channels, which will create all kinds of mud in the center channel due to high frequency cancellation. You might want to listen to the SF timeline output in mono, and play with delaying one channel vs the other, using a simple delay (not echo or reverb) in SF to see if the apparent high frequency response improves. There are also other plugins available to do individual channel delay, one of which is available at

http://www.virtos-audio.com/

The virtos full package offers a "stereo field enhancer" that can be tweaked to do only single channel delay.

I have not tried this with the SF delay plugin, as I used Cool Edit Pro the last several times I had to do this.

Worth a try if the phase is off! Good luck.

Subject:RE: Rescuing a Flat-sounding cassette tape

Reply by: Sound Dog

Date:7/14/2005 3:49:58 PM

Hi Plasmavideo,

Thanks for the tips. Any of those possibilities is believable! Yup, mud in the middle. VERY believable!

Funny you should mention Cool Edit. I don't use it much anymore, but I don't know why. Maybe something to do with Adobe(?) I LOVE Cool Edit!

BTW, I think SF is pretty good too!

Regards,
Sound Dog