Subject:Glitching during scrolling

Posted by: auralenhancer

Date:6/18/2005 8:30:39 PM

I have a minor but annoying problem. When I have Acid 5.0b in "play mode" and I scroll up and down or resize my tracks, I can hear all kinds of glitchy pops and crud. Everything else works fine..playback and recording. I'm running in Asio mode with a Delta 1010 set with 256 buffer and Acid is set to auto detect the latency.
Any way to aleviate this problem without having to set a higher buffer? OR is there something else that dould be causing problems?

My system is:
Dell 4700 P4
3ghz processor
2 gigs Ram
WinXP sp2
Delta 1010 sound card


THANKS!

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Illogical

Date:6/19/2005 7:52:10 AM

I have the same thing man, it really sucks, but at least the whole system doesn't crash now with the 5.0b update. I thought it might be a RAM deficiency (i only run 512K) causing my glitches but you have a ton so that doesn't explain it. I tried all different buffer settings and it didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe the next update will sort us out.

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: auralenhancer

Date:6/19/2005 4:10:36 PM

Yeah I switched to using the "windows classic wave driver" instead of my asio driver, but there is nothing "PRO" about that, and not a great workaround, but it's better than listening to all the audio glitch. It glitches even when editing lengths of wav files in tracks.

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/19/2005 6:04:03 PM

It might be your video card drivers.

auralenhancer: What's your video card? (It says in your profile that it's an "Asus x600;" apparently, that's an ATI Radeon card (branded by ASUS)?

Did you try either getting newer drivers for your video card or turning down video acceleration?

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: auralenhancer

Date:6/19/2005 7:27:43 PM

YEah I've got the ATI ASUS X300 and running dual monitors.
I had thought about that actually, but you message reminded me to try that. I updated the drivers AND turned off acceleration and it didn't help. Dang, I actually thought that would work too. Ah well, I do have like 64 tracks going and who knows howmany plugs and a couple soft synths going....at least playback and recording are glitch free, but this seems like it should be fixable.
Thanks much iacobus for your suggestion!

AHA! I tried some more experimenting.....I turned my secondary monitor OFF and walla...no glitching during scrolls..hmmmm. Now what? Anyone running dual monitors withoout this problem?

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Illogical

Date:6/20/2005 8:59:59 AM

hmmm, that's interesting, I run two computers sharing one monitor via a KVM switch, could that explain my scratching?

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: filterthing

Date:6/20/2005 11:14:05 PM

I am using a kvm switch and have not seen this problem. I do leave any video hardware accell settings off... hope that helps

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: MacMoney

Date:6/21/2005 4:31:18 AM

>AHA! I tried some more experimenting.....I turned my secondary monitor OFF and walla...no glitching during scrolls..hmmmm. Now what? Anyone running dual monitors withoout this problem?

I'm running dual 21's with NVIDIA GeForce4 MX440
1024x768 / Medium 16bit

with no issues

George Ware

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Klirrfaktor

Date:6/21/2005 9:58:18 AM

interesting thread - because i already reported this issue in another thread.

i just tried to disable my second monitor but it does still happen. but what i noticed is, that this only happens in really big projects. means if a project takes about 40% CPU during playback it will crackle when moving or resizing the window or events. it seems that scrolling is very cpu intensive and if a project already has 40% of CPU usage it will grow up to over 95% or even 100% and then it starts to crackle. i usually set the latency in my asio panel higher then its a little better but of course its not a fine workaround.

Hardware: Radeon 9600, RME HDSP 9652

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/21/2005 10:35:34 AM

I wonder if it's a Radeon issue? (George mentioned he has an NVIDIA card with no issues.) Is anyone with the problem using one?

(It wouldn't surprise me as there was an exclusive issue between ATI's drivers and SPD's apps before.)

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: MacMoney

Date:6/21/2005 4:25:44 PM

We had alot of problems about two years ago with Radeon.
All we buy now is NVIDIA.
I'm on a few betas right now with guys who use ATi and Matrox who are having issues, my card is almost two years old and still works fine on Win XP SP1

George Ware

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: auralenhancer

Date:6/21/2005 7:48:45 PM

Hmmmm, interesting replies. Well, I originally had an Nvidia card but my computer was not real happy with the drivers. I forgot to mention one other thing this is a PCI Express video card I'm using, not that that should make a huge difference.
Also I'm running one digital monitor at 1280 by 1024 and a VGA at 1024 by 768. but I don't think resolution is an issue. The session is a surround mix with 64 plus tracks (and counting) and a couple soft synths running.
It seems to me that it's an ASIO driver/video driver issue. If I switch to Windows Classic Driver I have no glitches at all (except when i stop audio then there's a nice clunky glitch before the audio stops) no matter what my video settings are. Or like I said before if I turn off my secondary monitor.
I didn't try setting the ASIO buffer past 768, which would probably help, but defeats the purpose of using ASIO which is "0 latency" right?
Heck maybe I'll try an Nvdia card again.
It couldn't be a processor problem..my CPU isn't anywhere near 50%
C'est la Vie!
Thanks for all the replies!

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: MacMoney

Date:6/22/2005 4:24:25 AM

What is you ASIO sample size?
I have Digi TDM HW, I'm using 256 or 512 for mixing.

George Ware

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: auralenhancer

Date:6/23/2005 5:44:57 PM

I'm using 256, although I went up to 512 and 768. but I might as well use the classic wave driver if I'm going to just introduce latency. But I can set the sample size prety low and still record and playback with out glitches it's just the scrolling that gets annoying.

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/25/2005 1:22:07 PM

If you're not recording MIDI, switching to Classic Wave won't affect you all that much.

I know I used to have some problems with my Audiophile 2496's ASIO drivers (which belongs to the same Delta family as the 1010), but that was awhile ago and I know they've gone through a couple driver revisions since then.

It could be a combo of both the Radeon and the Delta. I know that the Delta cards don't like sharing resources (IRQs) all that much, even on an XP system. Are any devices sharing IRQs? (You can disable any nonessential devices in your system's BIOS; for example, if you're not using your system's serial or PS/2 mouse ports, disable them to save resources).

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Klirrfaktor

Date:7/4/2005 11:22:05 AM

ok.. i have now replaced my radeon with a Asus N6600 -nvidia gforce 6600 but that didnt make any difference at all. the only thing that helps is to raise the asio latency in the panel of that hammerfall settings but im of course not happy with the latency afterwards. disabling second monitor and changing driver does not help much.

this all seems a performance issue. i get this crackling only in big projects with a lot of reverbs, delays and other plugins loaded. track count in my actual project is 25 and im using a few busses. but wheres the problem? is the cpu too slow or is it memory? i have a 3.4ghz with 1gb ram and if i check task manager its not used fully. i still have plenty of ram free when this project is opened and cpu is going around 40-50% during playback.. but its going at 100% when resizing the window.

if i understand that gfx thing right, this stuff should be calculated by the gfx cpu and not affect my normal cpu?

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:7/9/2005 11:30:59 AM

this all seems a performance issue. i get this crackling only in big projects with a lot of reverbs, delays and other plugins loaded. track count in my actual project is 25 and im using a few busses. but wheres the problem? is the cpu too slow or is it memory? i have a 3.4ghz with 1gb ram and if i check task manager its not used fully. i still have plenty of ram free when this project is opened and cpu is going around 40-50% during playback.. but its going at 100% when resizing the window.

if i understand that gfx thing right, this stuff should be calculated by the gfx cpu and not affect my normal cpu?

Sometimes, graphics card drivers are souped up to the point where they hog resources away from the rest of your system. Sometimes turning off video acceleration helps.

I have a 3.0 GHz P4 with 1 GB of RAM; I usually have about 30+ tracks in my projects but I usually don't use too many effects.

You could be hitting a performance ceiling on your system depending on what's going on. Still, it takes a lot to tax a system like yours. Any possibility of economizing effects? (Instead of inserting a reverb at the track level for several tracks, you can save some processing power by routing the tracks to a single bus/assignable FX instead.)

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: eppik

Date:7/12/2005 7:18:41 AM

Thought I'd jump in here.

I'm running a 1.3 Ghz AMD w/ 768 MB RAM, 256 MB Radeon 9600 XT w/ dual monitor here. I'm playing back one of my more recent high CPU tracks with ASIO drivers going (MOTU 2408 MKI), plus I have Netscape, Illustrator CS, Firefox plus your typical Spybot, Ad-aware, Norton apps all running right now with no scroll crackling. I recall this happening at some point too but I haven't encountered it for some time. Only one VSTi in this track but Waves RVerb pushing on about 6 tracks. CPU is pushing 82%.
Go figure.

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: 744

Date:7/15/2005 10:35:17 AM

It happens on my machine too, and I'm running a slightly upgraded budget PC (eMachines T2824). If it happens on my crummy hardware, and also on your high-end system...it's probably either ACID or Windows managing something inefficiently.

I was thinking a bit on what might possibly be causing the popping. I was sort of thinking that the playback cursor in ACID might be linked to the sound playback somehow, and when you scroll, it tries to recompute where the marker is, and it does that so many times that it stops just long enough to produce a little bit of popping. I am using only one monitor. This is just a bad guess. I really have no clue what is really going on.

If you want to know, here's my specs:

Celeron D 325, 2.53 Ghz
768MB RAM
Realtek AC '97-compliant sound card (no clue what it really is. the bios won't even tell me)
PCI Intel Extreme Graphics 2
Windows XP Home SP1

~ 744

Subject:RE: Glitching during scrolling

Reply by: Klirrfaktor

Date:11/21/2005 2:29:38 AM

as reported in the other thread.

my problem was caused by the hyper threading of the cpu! disable it in bios and scrolling goes smooth!! unbelievable...