Subject:Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Posted by: rjt

Date:6/26/2005 7:10:43 AM

Anyone have any idea when Sony is going to put out a bugfix for Media Manager? I know some people have gotten it to work with an incredible amount of effort (and for some it worked as advertised) but for the rest of us..... when will it be fixed?

Thanks
Take Care

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:6/26/2005 3:41:39 PM

What "fix" do you think Sony is working on? I just rebuild my PC (i.e., formatted my C: drive) and I installed SP2 and then reinstalled all my Sony software and the Media Manager installed and works fine. It also works fine on my laptop with SP1.

Did you contact Sony about the new diagnostic tool for troubleshooting media manager installation and initialization issues that the Forum Admin said Technical support has in this thread (which you participated in)? If not, you probably should get them to help you. If they have a troubleshooting tool, they probably can fix it for you if you run it.

~jr

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: rjt

Date:6/26/2005 9:00:55 PM

Thanks for the response. I think that with well written software, it should not be necessary to rebuild a computer, uninstall and reinstall several different programs or run a diagnostic tool. IMHO, well written software runs as intended (or the company rewrites the flawed code.) I wonder how many people would buy SONY TVs if they took this much trouble to operate. So, the fix I am referring to is an update which is correctly written and in which Media Manager works as advertised without diagnostic tools or numerous reinstalls. Seems like Sony would be interested in fixing their problem.

Take Care

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:6/27/2005 6:56:39 AM

> I think that with well written software, it should not be necessary to rebuild a computer, uninstall and reinstall several different programs or run a diagnostic tool.

I agree. I hope I didn’t give you the impression that I rebuilt my PC to run the Sony software. It was working perfect before the rebuild. I rebuilt my PC because I was getting the Blue Screen of Death a lot and sometimes it was caused by drivers for hardware I no longer had that wouldn’t uninstall. Windows is a sad excuse for an operating system. It’s just a junk collector and the only way to fix Windows is to reinstall it from a clean hard drive.

So my Sony software worked before the rebuild and after the rebuild. I noticed that you rebuilt your PC too which is why I’m surprised that it doesn’t work for you on a clean build.

> So, the fix I am referring to is an update which is correctly written and in which Media Manager works as advertised without diagnostic tools or numerous reinstalls

The problem here is that the software that is causing all the problems is written by MICROSOFT! It’s the Microsoft Desktop SQL Engine that is failing to install and it’s Sony that’s getting the black eye because they use it in their product. The same is true for .NET. Microsoft is touting .NET as the platform of the future yet they don’t ship it with their operating system and then the 3rd party vendors that build on it like Sony, get all the support phone calls when the .NET install adds userids to peoples systems and changes the way they logon. (remember that one? Sony took the blame for that too!)

> Seems like Sony would be interested in fixing their problem.

Unfortunately, Sony can’t fix Microsoft’s problem. So let’s be very clear: MICROSOFT is the software company that needs to write better software.

~jr

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: rjt

Date:6/27/2005 8:10:43 PM

Again, thanks for the reply.

Since I had to reinstall everything.... from scratch (like you) I am a little surprised that Media Manager didn't work..... hence some of my exasperation.

I have a bit of a different take on Net and Media Manager. That is.... if Sony was going to use them.... why didn't it do a better job of beta testing...figuring out the problems and either delaying release of Acid 5 or finding a fix. For example, maybe they shouldn't have used media manager..... Windows stuff is often buggy the first year or two it is out.... I would argue that Sony should have not included features which "found and cataloged your loops" or developed if's own software to do that.... in other words..... do it right (difficult using someone else's software) or don't do it!

I don't mean to sound harsh towards Sony. Many companies release software with flaws (I have lots of NI products!!!) but they work hard to fix them (usually.) When I look at what people were going through to make this feature work.... it seemed way over the top.

My route is to disable the feature. If Sony (or Microsoft) improves it.... great!! If not, I may stop upgrading with Acid 5.

Take Care

ps So, I guess this means I hope that a Sony representative will jump on this e-mail, report how hard they are working to fix the problem and that a bug fix will be out soon!!!!!!

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:6/29/2005 3:26:27 PM

We would like to help you, but looking back at all your posts we cannot find a detailed description of exactly what your problem is.

If you ran through these troubleshooting steps, please post the detailed results (and possibly an acid50.log file if present):
http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=389571

Details on exactly what version of Windows, which service packs you have installled, etc. would be helpful also.

And of course the obvious question, are you using ACID 5.0b?

And Tech Support does have a small downloadable media manager diagnostic tool that automates some of the troubleshooting. ACID Pro 5.0 customers have 60 days of phone support included in the purchase.
http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/support/phonesupport.asp

HTH.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: rjt

Date:6/29/2005 8:54:56 PM

Thanks for your reply. To answer your questions, I get a message stating that "an error occurred initializing the media manager. this feature will be unavailable. media manager initialization failed" I run XP with SP2 installed and am using Acid 5.0b.


But that is not really my question. I have several music programs (which I could mention if you wish) which integrate just fine with XP and SP2 and work as advertised. They do not require troublshooting, downloading diagnostic tools, installing and reinstalling software etc. My question is about a bugfix and when we can expect it. In other words.... when is Sony going to fix the problem so their software works as advertised without all this effort on the part of the end user. At this stage, I am unwilling to go through all of this and wonder why other programs work and Acid Pro doesn't.

So, any idea when the bugfix is coming?

Thanks for your time.
Take Care

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:6/30/2005 7:24:38 AM

rjt,

A bug is only a confirmed bug when it can be repeated across a definitive segment of users with a wide variety of config and hardware. That being said - I (and many others) do not have ANY problems with the Media Manager and I am using XP SP2 and Acid 5.0b.

I also keep my gear in top shape and do not install anything but the required elements onto my studio boxes.

So - before you start screaming bug - why don't you give us a complete hardware profile plus a detailed listing of what you have installed so a possible solution can be pieced together. I will almost guarantee your issues are related to some conflict with something else on the box.

VP

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Alex_Talionas

Date:6/30/2005 3:18:09 PM

I see the exact same thing that RJT describes. So does that make it a bug yet? I considered doing the trouble shooting steps and haven't done so, my bad. I don't have a use for the Media Manager, so the media manager is nothing more than an annoyance to me at this point when I have to click through the error messages upon every start up. I don't have a lot of ambition trouble shooting something that I don't have a use for, so I feel quite the same way as rjt does. I'm happy it works for you other guys. If the problem is due to Microsoft's code, then this is Sony's problem since they chose to use Microsoft's software in their app. Nobody here told them to use Microsoft's code, we buy the app from Sony because we are use to good quality from Sony, if Sony can't continue to do that when using MS code, then they should consider writing their own.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: rjt

Date:6/30/2005 9:24:45 PM

I wasn't aware anyone was screaming...... I was just stating an opinion and, despite what you might think, still believe I am entitled to it. It seems to me a lot of people have had this problem as there are a number of posts here about media manager. In my book, this constitutes a bug.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:7/1/2005 6:47:54 AM

Well..yes you are entitled to it but your "opinion" is totally pointless since the majority of us are not having any issues whatsoever. What exactly do you expect Sony to do? Fix something that works for the majority? I don't need any fixes. I know a bunch of other users who are not having problems - so what's the deal?

Is it that you and three others have some sort of bizarre install with weird plugins and strange hardware and all of a sudden it's Sony's fault? Get real.

Bottom line, pal - in software dev - if it works reasonably well across a reasonable amount of configurations - it works. Period. The Sony admin already chimed in on this thread...they can't fix something if you don't give up some details on your config.

So where's the hardware and software list? Any chance we can see what you are running on and what you have installed?

VP

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: randygo

Date:7/1/2005 7:35:31 AM

>Fix something that works for the majority?

What's a majority, 51% or more? I think it doesn't matter if "most" people are not having problems, when a sizable number are.

There are a LOT of complaints in this and other forums about Media Manager, so I believe some major fixes are in order.

One should not be so quick to dismiss other's problems.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:7/1/2005 9:12:54 AM

If a majority of users are NOT having problems - what do you think that means? To me it means - for a majority of users - the software WORKS as advertised. If there was some huge major issue - it wouldn't work on anyone's machine.

Complaining and whining about something NOT working on YOUR machine does not consititute a major emergency. 99% of the time - when something does work for many others but certain users continue to experience problems - it always comes down to conflicts/problems on your rig. In this case - I am willing to bet that .NET framework is incorrectly installed, was updated in the wrong order or combo of both.

Instead of whining to Sony about a bug that none of you seems to be able to quantify (or even describe properly) - why won't anyone who is having these mysterious problems just cut the crap and post their config?

I am trying to help - but if no one wants to share the nuts and bolts of their specific rig - what's the point?

VP

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Alex_Talionas

Date:7/1/2005 1:18:47 PM

"If a majority of users are NOT having problems - what do you think that means?"

Vocalpoint, do you have ANY experience in Qualtiy Control? I worked in the quality division for a major automobile manufacturer. In the automotive industry people describe quality problems in the order of "PPM" numbers. PPM, stands for Parts Per Million. A MAJOR quality problem in this real world industry would be on the order of 100 PPM. That's 100 Parts Per Million. So let's say for example a certain vehicle had a 100 PPM qualtiy problem for defective tires, this is considered a MAJOR quality problem. That's .01% of the cars made where having a problem with defective tires. In this instance 99.99% of the car buyers were not having any quality problems with their tires. Certainly the majority of people where not having a quality problem with their vehicle. Does anyone remember the Ford/Firestone issue with tires going bad and blowing out? This problem happened on only certain vehicles... 2 vehicles out of every Ford vehicle that I recall, and it was a certain tire used on those certain vehicles, and even of those tires that qualified as being a concern of being at risk, the majority did not have the defect problem. This was one of the biggest black eyes that Ford and Firestone ever received for a quality problem. Certainly Ford didn't come out and say, "Well the majority, of buyers aren't having any problems, so we don't consider this such a big problem, and we'll eventually get around to fixing it.". Ford stopped production on those cars, and all the cars getting Firestone tires on them and I'm sure the problem was probably less than .1%. Pretty much almost every automobile manufacturer will stop building a car if there is a quality problem of 10,000 PPM. Do the math that's 1%. It costs an automotive manufacturer more than $3 million per day to stop building a certain vehicle. Why would they do this, when the majority of their vehicles are ok? Because, the word would be published in every quality review article that Ford puts out junk cars and they would be receiving black eyes and return their sales would drop. They don't mention, that "Well the majority of their cars are ok, so you should feel safe that it's going to work for you". I'll give you another realworld example, just incase you don't think the tire example that I mentioned is practical, since this is a safety problem. Ford had started building a new model year car. In these cars the radio was a radio that used a Pioneer indash CD changer. The PPM for the CD changer jamming and making the radio useless was 10,000. Ford stopped building these cars for over 2 weeks, until Pioneer figured out what the problem was on the CD Changer and knew how to detect the problem CD changers, so they wouldn't reach Ford's customers. That's $3mil x 14 days of lost revenue on something with a 1% failure to the customer.

So if you don't think this is a major bug, I would advise you to take some classes on Quality control systems. My feeling is that your whole perspective will change, once you get educated on what makes a minor annoyance problem and a major problem.

Also, a lot of us that have this problem had Acid 5.0a with MM v1.0 working on it fine. It wasn't until we installed v5.0b with MM v2.0 in it ,on the same system, that we saw this problem. Sony knows what they changed, we don't. As cutomers it is not our responsibility to figure out what is wrong. Just like if the radio in your NEW car broke, I wouldn't expect you to have to diagnose it for the car manufacturer. I would imagine you would expect that car manufacturer to do that and to fix it for you by replacing the radio with one that isn't going to break for the same problem. If they didn't, I would expect you would probably buy a different car from a differenct manufacturer the next time you go to buy a car. Well, Sony is faced with this same problem with this bug. So yes, it's a minor annoyance to most of us that this MM doesn't work on our system. Well, we did pay for that feature, the same amount you did, but it doesn't work on our system. Will it stop us from working in Acid? Probably not. Just like if the radio stopped working in my car, it wouldn't stop me from driving my car. I sure would like to know when my radio is going to be fixed, since I did pay for that radio, the same amount like you did, and now I'm forced to drive around in a car with no music. What you're telling us, is that we shouldn't be upset because everyone elses radio works fine and we should further pull out our broken radio and try to figure out what's wrong with it, so Sony can fix it. When Sony pays me to be their customer, I will be happy to do that, but the fact is it works the other way around.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:7/1/2005 2:56:51 PM

Al,

Ouch. Work on the paragraph spacing, bud.

I am only trying to help and I also am entitled to my own opinion. I honestly believe these issues are manfesting themselves with a weird ass (out of order) install of .NET or some other conflicts.

Why are you all assuming that your OS (and .NET) is properly installed to begin with? This is a complex infrastructure that needs to be set up perfectly before you add anything like Acid/MM to it.

Will no one will post their config or specs...?

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Alex_Talionas

Date:7/1/2005 4:36:31 PM

Sorry Bud,
I missed the part where you're trying to help. Infact, you're doing nothing to help besides being a pompous ass by mentioning things like "paragraph" spacing. Obviously, this is a bug that is system specific. It's not ONE particular system, but a variety of sytems as reported by quite a few amount of users. Obviously I see the same bug as RJT has, and I don't know him or work on the same system. So with all these variables of having different systems between myself and rjt, then what are the thing we do have in common? That would be Acid 5.0b and the same bug symptoms.


"Why are you all assuming that your OS (and .NET) is properly installed to begin with? This is a complex infrastructure that needs to be set up perfectly before you add anything like Acid/MM to it. "

This is a pretty ignorant statement I must say. What makes your system so set up "perfect"? There is no "perfect" setup, the operating System has flaws in itself. Go ahead and list your system for us and what makes it so perfect. I've been building DAWS for going on 6 years now, I know how to maintain a system. So don't speak to me like I'm some kind of a dork who knows nothing about PC's except pressing keys. Contrary to what you say, your purpose of being here and trying to help out, you've done nothing except insult us, and trying to put yourself on a plateau above us, like you're some kind of PC tweaking God and we're a bunch of dolts. Point out to us, where you've offered one bit of help in this thread. We don't see it. If it works for you, then fine. You now have nothing to contribute to this thread, because you are not experiencing the problem and have not listed any information on fixing the problem. Go somewhere else and partronize people on setting up a PC. I know how to do it.

Explain this fact, if you're so smart and trying to Help out. Why would Acid 5.0a's MM load fine on the same system? Now nothing has changed on the setup on this system, except updating to 5.0b with MM v2.0. Now it doesn't work. Now what are those differences? There's one difference that changed on this system, and that's going from 5.0a to 5.0b.

Excuse us, if we haven't posted our system specs for you. You don't work for Sony, you don't have the same problem on your system and have fixed it, so who are you? Obviously, all your trouble shooting skills are worthless from all that information you've been posting, and you're expecting us to waste more efforts with you in trying to trouble shoot? Yeah, grow up and get a life bud, instead of pretending you're some kind of tech support specialist for Sony.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: rjt

Date:7/2/2005 11:40:06 AM

Alex,
Not sure this would work for you. If you want to avoid the errors messages when you start Acid, Go to preferences and uncheck enable Media Manager. I stopped getting error messages after that. Sorry if I misunderstood the problem. Thanks for your replies.

Take Care

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:7/5/2005 12:44:10 PM

We don't discount bugs just because they may only be happening to a small people. We want to fix as many issues as possible, including this one.

That said, it appears that the second half of this thread is more about infighting than providing the repro information asked for previously. We want to see this fixed, and need your assistance to do that. Please contact our technical support team so we can work toward a resolution.

Thanks.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:7/5/2005 12:53:51 PM

>if the radio in your NEW car broke, I wouldn't expect you to have to diagnose it for the car manufacturer.

The difference here is that you bring your car and radio into the dealer where they can see hands-on what is happening. We can't do that across the internet. To further the analogy, without access to the radio in your car, the manufacturer would need to guess at several unknown scenarios with radios on hundreds of cars until they found one that went wrong. We would be searching for a needle in a haystack while you've got a needle handy right there.

Thanks in advance for any more repro information.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:7/5/2005 2:39:32 PM

rjt said:
Thanks for your reply. To answer your questions, I get a message stating that "an error occurred initializing the media manager. this feature will be unavailable. media manager initialization failed" I run XP with SP2 installed and am using Acid 5.0b.

I replied:
I got the same message as I remember. There are a number of services that I had turned off that I have to turn back on if I want to use Media Manager. Amongst these services are: ASP.NET State Service, MSSQL$SONY_MEDIAMGR, MSSQLServerADHelper, and SQLAgent$SONY_MEDIAMGR I don't remember any others. A couple of these were installed by Sony and were not turned on; I had to turn them on manually. Those of us that like to streamline what services we have running and want to use Media Manager will have to turn those services on. Sony's official position, at least as how it was espoused to me by a Sony person on one of these forums is that they only officially condone or warrant the use of a system that has all services turned on. Anyone else pays their money and takes their chances. Seeing as how I don't use Media Manager, I never gave it another thought and move on and make music just as well as before I had the 'use' of MM.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: rjt

Date:7/5/2005 8:17:39 PM

A few points:

1) I wasn't aware I was involved in infighting.... and I did start this thread.

2) To repeat, I suppose that with enough time and effort, installing, reinstalling adding diangostic tools etc. you probably could get it working.... but I was looking for a little bit better quality control, and a general bugfix for everytone. I guess I am/was optimistic enough to think a broad fix is possible and coming.

3) If you were manufacturing new cars and in 25% of them, the radio didn't work, a lot of people would think you had poor quality control and would wonder why you were selling the car with that radio in it. It strikes me as odd that none of your beta tests saw this coming. If you did see it coming..... is there a reason you didn't try to fix it?

Anyway, I am not trying to be critical or seek help for my individual problem, just looking for info. The question is the same as posted.... Is a general bugfix coming/when? It sounds like the answer may be no.

Take Care

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:7/6/2005 5:22:12 AM

ForumAdmin,

Unfortunately - even with your repeated inquiries for info from the folks that have the problem - it appears they do not want to do anything extra to try to solve the issue - if this is what you end up getting:

"2) To repeat, I suppose that with enough time and effort, installing, reinstalling adding diangostic tools etc. you probably could get it working.... but I was looking for a little bit better quality control, and a general bugfix for everytone. I guess I am/was optimistic enough to think a broad fix is possible and coming."

Some times ya just can't win.

Cheers,

VP

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:7/6/2005 5:38:22 AM

> It strikes me as odd that none of your beta tests saw this coming.

I was a beta tester and we did have problems with Media Manager installation and Sony fixed all the ones we could reproduce. There were even conflicts with the Media Manager between ACID Pro 5 and Vegas 6 (since it is a shared component) and Sony fixed those in the ACID 5.0a/b updates (after Vegas 6 shipped). If they can’t reproduce your problem, then Sony can’t fix it. Just like if you don’t take you car into the shop, it won’t get fixed either.

> Anyway, I am not trying to be critical or seek help for my individual problem, just looking for info.

Once again, Sony can’t fix something they can’t reproduce so it looks like you won’t receive help for your individual problem since you won’t help them reproduce it. It’s like: You want to know why the doctor can’t diagnose your illness over the phone just talking to you. Sony wrote a tool to help diagnose this problem and you refuse to run it. So I believe you. You are NOT looking for help because Sony is offering it and you’re not accepting it. In other words, you are waiting for the cure but unwilling to submit to clinical testing to help find it. If everyone took that attitude there would be no cures.

> Is a general bugfix coming/when?

I can’t put words in Sony’s mouth, but I would say that since it is NOT a general problem, there is no general fix. In general, it works. Since the beta, I have formatted my hard drive (for other reasons) and reinstalled all Sony software and it still works for me. If you have tweaked you PC in some way, (i.e., turned off services, added anti-virus, whatever) then those tweaks are probably the cause.

I’m not saying there isn’t a problem. I’m just saying that the cause is not “general” and is unique to a subset of PC’s. I know for a fact that Sony would LOVE to fix this problem but they need reproducible test cases.

Just as an aside: A while back, there were several security holes with Microsoft Desktop SQL Engine and my company issued a patch to corporate PC’s that disabled it. Maybe some anti-virus / internet security software is still flagging it as a potential hole and disabling it as well? It might be interesting to see what anti-virus/internet firewall people are using. I’m using Zone Alarm Security Suite for both anti-virus and firewall.

~jr

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:7/6/2005 6:47:17 AM

JohnnyRoy,

Very, very well said.

VP

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: rjt

Date:7/6/2005 4:48:45 PM

JR
Thanks for your reply. Actually, probably the first reply that attempted to address the question I asked. (For that matter, you seem to have answered some questions I hadn't actually asked and will effect my future decisions about Sony software....thanks)

Take Care

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: Sidecar2

Date:7/19/2005 2:10:46 PM

I had the same problem with Media Manager not loading in Acid 5.0 until I updated to 5.0b. Clean, quick installation.

Works fine now.

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: rjt

Date:7/20/2005 9:53:10 PM

Thanks for the reply, using 5.0b build 324.

Take Care

Subject:RE: Any word on Media Manager Bug Fix?

Reply by: sumrzz

Date:11/25/2005 2:40:40 AM

This too has happened to me as of today 11/25/05. I've read this entire post and some other troubleshooting posts and finally someone get's it. This simple idea of going into preferences and unchecking the enabling of the media manager works for me.

After all the infighing on the board, after all the back and forth, I finally got to this post, (which by the way thank you) I finally have been able to get rid of that stupid prompt error for Media Manager.

I totally agree. While microsoft started it, Sony is using it.
If it's an annoyance to more than three or four people (me included)
then this is a bug. Sorry, no two ways about it.

If it acts like bug and it looks like a bug, THEN IT'S A BUG. FIX IT!

Just my two cents.

Otherwise great software!