Thanks Spot - brilliant idea, hadn't thought of that... nice way to improve key resolution w/o springing for an HD cam....I'll try it!

ken

Of all the things that I saw at NAB that simple trick was the highlight of the show.
Bob.

Before I got Ultra, I didn’t understand what all the fuss was about since Vegas does a fine job with Chroma Key. But Ultra takes keying to a whole new level. I spent a fair amount of time with Keith Kolbo’s tutorial and got what I thought was a good key in Vegas (great tutorial by the way). With Ultra, I did the same in about 2 minutes and it was absolutely flawless. The spill suppression tools are great for correcting bad keys and the simplicity of just pointing to a frame that only contains your green screen and being able to say, “that’s my key” was just astounding. Having a tool that is specialized for keying makes a big difference. I can’t wait to see what Ultra 2 can do.

~jr

so if i turn my camera sideways, i will get better keys with my DV camera?

yes you should, and you can get a much higher resolution key too

Spot,

That tip is worth more than 10 times the price of admission here! Thanks

now this trick will work only with ultra 2 correct? or is ther software that interpolate into somthing vegas can use

I thought the only benefit to turning the camera sideways was easily be able to insert a DV (read: cheaper equipment) image into a HD background, and end up with a "HD" product. Visualize a vertical rectangle 480x720 (your DV image filmed sideways) inserted into a horizontal rectangle 1080x720 (the HD background). Notice how you get a full size (vertical) insert? You could do the same thing with Vegas (or any NLE) I suppose, but Ultra 2 has it built in so that when you do a zoom on your subject, Ultra will zoom the background at the exact same rate, making it more realistic.

I can't find this in a quick scan of the Serious Magic website, but I think it was it one of their promo videos on the site. I don't remember any mention of the chroma-keying actually working better (due to being sideways), but it has been a couple months since I watched that ...

Brian

There's a portrait/flip it 90 degrees feature too, that's new in Ultra 2.. I need to figure out how it all works ... then import the keyed footage, avi into Vegas, and do post-production titling and audio work, putting together multiple clips that way.. in Vegas, then render out to flv using flixpro

btw does V4 do flv renders ok? or do one of the later versions add that as a feature that works well?

ken

Ken.....are you able to move your subject know AND the alpha matte?

Thanks.

Yes, if I understand correctly, using the "scene" input tab, you can (in Ultra 1 too) move the alpha matte for the talent around as well as the keyed talent.

The alpha mattes that are embedded in the virtual sets (for things like virtual tvs, monitors) can be modified a bit and customized if you want to edit the source .pngs..

For example, I modified the source alpha background monitor manually in the video at www.tradingvideos.com

I modified one of the v-sets by making blue vs the default/green vertical panels in the video clip at:

http://www.MegaSeminar.com

Most everything is customizable... editing the key alpha mattes and the key talents is simple ... with a bit more work, you can modify everything about the background sets/v-sets as well, for non-tracking (static) vsets easily in any image editing program, like photoshop... Built in adjustments are easy too.

One last thing that we all clamored for that was added too, is Multiple pan/zoom points, which is an excellent feature, all before importing into Vegas (where you could do motion tracks etc if you wanted to as well).

Overall a sweet combination, Ultra 2 + Vegas.

Ken

Ken.... seems interesting....

One of my fears about green screening is all the effort it takes to have an evenly well lit back drop. Does Ultra work with unevenly lit, wrinkled back drops? Did you try really bad back drops to see if they would key? Thanks!

Ultra will work *reasonably* well with badly lit drops, but it's no exchange for having it be right. You can also shoot just the backdrop and use it as a key, somewhat like a difference mask.
it's pretty amazing, but a well-lit screen is always beneficial.

Very exciting Ken,
Show us some Ultra 2 stuff when you get it rocking and rolling.

I am curious about the Diamond Keyer added to Combustion 4 vs Ultra 2. Be cool if DMN or someone did the shootout kinda article and included the greenscreen footage so we could try it too. I wish Ultra was a plugin for Vegas. The render step to get it into Vegas seems to be the painful part.

-TomE

What I was refering to was taking the talent.......fliping them 90 degrees. In Ultra 1, if you set the key...then flipped the talent to say the other side of the screen.....the matte stayed. I ran into this problem when trying to "fix" a badly filmed subject.

Thanks for your time.

One of the new features in Ultra 2 is that it has a cool masking tool, which lets you "paint" over spots in the mask/key that are problematic... with a round spot cursor, to "rub out" any trouble spots in the key ..(there's probably a better technical way to say that, sorry)

re key quality heck, ultra can key off a green plastic tablecloth amazingly well :p it's a strong keyer... like Spot said, it's always best to have a decent key background in the first place..

with a nice backdrop, like the eefx.com felt ones, or others, it does a flawless job.. especially important, I found having 5k flouros and a spot on the key background, then a JTB softbox on the talent, with 4-6 feet minimum distance talent in front of the key screen..



ken

kencalhoun
I was interested in your work using Ultra 2. I just got it and looks great. I prefer to do my compositing in Vegas. Right now I've been rendering a .png sequence in Ultra because the background drops out so nice. How do I render an .avi or quicktime in Ultra and have the alpha channel available? I just can't figure that out. Thanks for any help.
mp

hi - sorry I don't know re rendering out w/alpha from ultra ... the forum there might be able to help ... I key out and put in backgrounds within ultra.. great question though, let me know if you find an answer...

ken

I only have Ultra 1 :( but to render with an alpha channel, on the Output tab you have to select Codec: Uncompressed and then select the radio button 32-bit AVI with Alpha. This will give you a 32bit render which is needed to preserve the alpha channel. Then I bring that into Vegas and it works great!

~jr

I guess I'm too used to the Cookie Cutter FX in Vegas. (other compositing software have their version of it) I would like to key in my subject but also be able to add a 'Cookie Cutter' to it.

Say like a semi-circle or something and have my GreenScreened talent in it. When I tried to bring in different layers to achieve this FX in Ultra 1,,, it was unsatisfactory.

Also, I think Ultra is good if you like 'Artificial' looking backgrounds and scenes. They all look like they are from a cartoon or something. None of the backgrounds look like the real thing. They are clearly 3D renderings that look like Cartoons or like they belong on the SCI FI channel.

I would much rather get a decent still shot (or video if possible) of a nice Board Room/Conference Room, Control Room, Office, whatever it is... and use Vegas Chroma Key or Boris RED3GL. Personally I think this looks a lot more realistic.

If you ever have access to any of these spaces you could actually shoot video and create the camera movements also. Nice pans, entrances, exits, tracking... you just have to Do It. It's fun but it is work.

Ultra is a waste of money if you're already a decent editor with Vegas. You already have the tools you need to acomplish the exact same thing. The Ultra site will tell you that they achieve awesome results even with poorly lit/bad greenscreening... but on their site they show VERY POOR examples of what Ultra can do. Lots of Green Spill! Clearly Green Screening and NOT REALISTIC at all.

Honestly... if you already have Vegas... you have what you need to do what Ultra does. (Ultra 2 may be different though)

Sorry, gotta strongly disagree with you there. Getting a decent key from bad footage is very easy with Ultra, Vegas can't do what Ultra can do. Ultra 2 can do many things Vegas can't do. If you feed Vegas uncompressed footage, it can do most of what Ultra can do...But Vegas can't define multiple key points, and it doesn't have the sort of spill suppression, matte matching, difference matching, or erasable lines from border areas. If you use track motion in Vegas to resize an image, the edges of the key nearly always show in DV, whereas Ultra 2 does a killer job of cleaning it up.
I do agree that most of the virtual sets in Ultra are things I'd not really use, and do prefer either real backgrounds or something created from reality, but there are just many, many things that Ultra does far better than Vegas when it comes to cutting keys.
Ultra 2 is very, very similar to Ultimatte in its capabilities. The greatest weakness I've found in Ultra 2 is the way it keyframes, but I'm also very spoiled by the way that Vegas and AE do keyframes.
The media you're seeing on the Serious Magic site is streaming media, and you're also right, it's not a good representation of what the tools can do. And, a big part of their point is that you can pull a good key even when it's been terrible or no lighting.
Boris Red is close to what Ultra can do, but it still isn't as good. And Red costs twice as much. Vegas does an awesome job, no doubt, but Ultra does better. It should. It costs more than Vegas does. If you're dealing with 4:2:2 sources, Vegas is just as good, excepting the bad lighting sorts of things, but Ultra is just simply faster and allows for more flexibility with a special nod to keying DV with it.
But heck....that's just what I think.

As much as I would love to invest in Serious Magic's latest offerings (DVRack with HDV and Ultra 2) I refuse to plop down the cash without trying it so I can see the quality for myself and not from their video and marketing hype.

I called their tech support a bit ago and asked if a demo would be made available and their tech support said that no demo would be made available and then proceeded to hype both programs.

Seriously though, at the price tags they charge for each program, one would think they would have the latest trial versions. Reminds me on a company named United Media. They made a multicam program for use with Premiere Pro and when I asked if they could provide a trial version the sales guy said this exactly :"Look, I know this is $500 but trust me, you will never ever need another NLE ever again." When I asked about a money back guarrantee, the sales guy said there was no return on software purchases but it wouldnt matter because I would love the program. Never bought it.

One would definitely think with all the new features that Ultra 2 and (H)DVRack have that they would want users to test it and see the quality they would get and then purchase. Whenever a company doesnt offer a demo of a program that is priced higher than most, thats my first warning sign that maybe the program doesnt live up to its marketing hype.