Subject:So three months later

Posted by: Spheris

Date:5/17/2005 7:08:50 AM

That pretty much says it all. Sonic, an eta (a real one) if you could. The word from other channels wasn't much use at all and the words "practice in chaos theory" weren't encouraging and a little frightening in their native nihongo.

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Andreas S.

Date:5/17/2005 9:41:26 AM

Let's not be hasty. Three months. That should be nearly enough time to detect all the bugs in SF8. Then, another four or five to code the patches, beta test, and wait, by then it'll be October and November, and the first public betas on SF10 should be out.

Maybe it's just me, but I have the feeling with SF8 that I did with Windows ME (which was the OS that never should have seen the light of day - fortunately, I had the foresight to wait for XP).

Most frustrating of all: Sony isn't saying boo about SF8 or Vegas 6. I'll take a VAGUE eta +/- 30 days. At least Tylenol told people not to use their product until they could trace the arsenic and create new security measures. Short term pain, long term gain. SONY could learn a valueable marketing lesson from that.

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:5/17/2005 9:57:29 AM

So if SPD gave a timeframe of +/- 30 days and then missed it, what would anyone say?

Trust me when I say they're working on it.

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:5/17/2005 10:17:17 AM

I don't recall ever hearing of someone dying because a software company didn't announce a patch release date.

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:5/17/2005 10:42:58 AM

"Sony isn't saying boo about SF8 or Vegas 6."

Probably because they are embarrassed about the lack of quality and high disatisfaction level amongst many users. I myself was totally jazzed about SF8 when the initial pre-announcements etc were being made and was still excited - right up until I installed the first release and then watched it collaspe under it's own self.

This product was rushed out the door to make a deadline - end stop.

And MD - no is doubting they are working on it - it would just be nice to know where the hell they are at with the patch....the decent promo pricing period has come and gone...this first release is completely unusable for any real work...what do you expect people to be asking....?

VP

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Andreas S.

Date:5/17/2005 12:21:20 PM

MD, like vocalpoint, I have no doubt they're working on it. But the silence, as they say, is deafening. We've heard nary a peep. Clearly Sony is trying to deal with it, and while I'd love to know the process, I'd just be happy with "early summer, late summer, third quarter, or version 9 next January."

The point is this: we have purchased what was clearly a not-ready-for-prime-time product. My immediate blame would go to a) upper management who set deadlines that were unrealistic, or b) middle management would wouldn't stand up to those responsible in scenario 'a'.

It comes back to Tylenol - experts in customer and public relations. I use this example because it's basic brand building/marketing stuff; the business I do my audio work in. Tylenol staged a marketing coup in 1982 following the deaths of seven people in the Chicago area; the common cause being Tylenol tained with cyanide. Tylenol immediately instructed customers NOT to use any of their products, and retailers to return all their stock. Tylenol went even further by telling everyone to use competitor's products until they had tracked down the cause of the problem, and until it had a new safety/security process. Not long thereafter, Tylenol introduced security caps, banded caps, new batch number tracking processes, which the REST of their competition later scrambled to copy. Tylenol's brand is still, I believe, over 75% of the anelgesic market.

You might say, "yes, but everyone does that." Actually no, they don't. Tylenol was the first. NOW everyone does it because of Tylenol's example.

Who cares? SONY should care. They blew it. Admit it. Get the users of your products on side and figure out a way to reinstate confidence in your products: by creating the best products bar none. Why have I had no major issues with Adobe software on day 1 of release? Because the beta test the SNOT out of their software. Adobe owns its market, not because Adobe says "we're really great and our products are good and you should buy them." It's because they work hard at creating great products that work.

Where I work, we strive to be as open and honest with customers as we can...in many ways taking our cue from Tylenol (and doing our best to avoid the same situation).

With all this in mind, I actually DO believe the original question "So...three months later..." is relevant. The question "when are the patches coming out" DOES deserve an answer.

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: drbam

Date:5/17/2005 2:10:00 PM

I regret that I spent my money on SF8. Its still sitting in the unopened original shipping package on a bottom rack shelf where I toss the rest of the stuff I don't or can't use. SF8 will probably get fixed, but every time I notice the box I am reminded of how I now feel about Sony. Extremely disappointed is putting it lightly. . .

drbam

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: sirshambling

Date:5/18/2005 7:02:55 AM

Yes I feel the same way. I first bought SF4 and have loyally upgraded every version since. SF8 is installed here but never used - still on 7b.

I won't be buying any further upgrades you can bet! What a way for a strong product to die.

John.

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:5/18/2005 12:06:31 PM

I must be incredibly blessed because I didn't have half the problems you good people do with the first release. Maybe it's my rather draconian setup?

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:5/18/2005 3:20:29 PM

If it is still unopened does that mean you haven't tried it ? If so, you may be cheating yourself. Many users are NOT having great problems (or small ones even).

geoff

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Spheris

Date:5/18/2005 6:33:15 PM

mD - I'd love to hear some more about how a draconian setup (we have one here) has overcome compiler flaws. Drop me a note, any help would be appreciated (the SSE2 fix is only half working for some things and creates some really interesting side effects)

Geoff, I'm going to take for granted that not everyone is running across the same errors (their too numerous at this point for any single person to nail so far based on the current buglist) but it might be that a lot of the missed ones by a number of people are due to lack of use of those functions - which says altogether other things about the users than forgiving the bugs present in the product.

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: drbam

Date:5/18/2005 7:53:01 PM

"Many users are NOT having great problems (or small ones even)."

Not to be argumentative, but do you have access to a greater database of SF8 user reports than the rest of us on this forum? I ask simply because the reports here do not support your assessment by a long shot. Even Sony admitted early on that this release was not up to their standards. That was enough for me to decide to wait until the bug list is reduced to at least a reasonable number – hopefully this will happen with the next update.

drbam

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: mokomo

Date:5/19/2005 2:20:27 AM

I have not had serious problems with SF8.0. I understand though that the complaints on this forum are valid and need to be fixed.

If anything, after having recently tried out competitor software, I look forward to SF becoming more fully featured. I hope the 8.0 patch will be out soon and that will mop up most of the issues with this release. And then we can get to see the introduction of tools that other (cheaper) competing applications offer.

As it is I find I have to spend 25% of my time opening up other applications to do stuff that SF should be able to do as an audio editor.

Plus, we need GUI improvements and some flexibility in how the waveform is represented graphically.

Let's get 8.0a out of the way, and then we need to see Sony getting deeply involved with playing catch-up on some of the great features offered by other audio editors.

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: kbruff

Date:5/19/2005 7:19:06 AM

I totaly agree -

I mean there should be at a minimum...


- multiples instances
- at least the ability to have a dual stereo layer for precise surgical edits
- the ability to create a series file set when the audio reaches its maximum storage limit
- create macro buttons for custom tool bar (one shot button for a specific plugin routine)

There are some other features that could just push this tool way over the top

But the patches issues must be addressed first -

Also I think there should clearly be a dedicated sticky post indicating the known issues - I actually come to the forums just to know what is wrong and what I need to look out for

- Regards

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: CDM

Date:5/19/2005 8:10:28 AM

I'm kind of like Iacobus. I barely had a single bug affect me either, since I mostly use Sound Forge for Mastering. I use the plugin chainer mostly (there were a lot of other chainer bugs I found annoying that have been fixed and will appear in the update) and the pencil tool.

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:5/19/2005 2:56:17 PM

8.0a is out! Let's see how it holds up...

VP

Subject:RE: So three months later

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:5/19/2005 8:14:23 PM

"the reports here do not support your assessment by a long shot"

- naturally, it is rare for users to seek out a forum and post how happy they are with an update. Let me add to the list of happy users.

Yes, there may be some bugs, but it is simply exaggeration to describe SF8 as unusable or not up to standard. My experience with SF and now Sony is that the quality control exceeds just about any other developer I have bought software from.

Some people are never happy. For months before SF8/Acid Pro5 were released, the forums were full of whingers complaining about the time since the last update. As soon as the new products were released, the forums were full of complaints about the products being too early for release! More recently, the forums have been full of complaints about the new updates taking too long. Now they are out, and I'll bet that within a week we have users complaining that the updates should have been held longer so that bug xyz could be fixed.


Yes, bugs are annoying.