At NAB, I was fortunate enough to be at the Vegas party and talk to some of the Sony folks who created Vegas 6. I came to understand that, at the current time, Vegas 6 will not support DVCPRO HD. Not that they couldn't develop a codec for it, but because the priority has not been there. I suppose eventually Vegas will support DVCPRO and HD, but it will probably be another year or so before it comes to pass unless Panasonic provides some significant support to change priorities. So, I may be looking at Pinnacle Liquid Edition or Avid in lieu of an upgrade to V6. Disappointing...

I'd also like to hear something more definitive from Sony on this issue. If the HVX200 is released in the fall, then there's going to be a lot of Vegas users switching to other NLEs if Vegas doesn't support both DVCPRO HD and DVCPRO50. If these codecs are not in the works, I'd also like to know in advance so I can make a move to another NLE well in advance of adopting a DVCPRO HD workflow. I'm a very staunch Vegas supporter and hate the thought of switching NLEs, but I will not be adopting an HDV workflow just to use Vegas. I'd really think that Sony would want to be ready when the HVX200 is introduced to capture folks before they switch, but if not--they should at least give us a timetable for adoption of the new codecs. Thanks.

I was also at the party and had a similar conversation.

I'm a 24p NUT and an enthusiastic Vegas supporter, and want very much to continue using Vegas when I move on to the HVX200 (assuming it lives up to its specs).

It would be a shame not to be able to do it. Actually heartbreaking.

My god, give it a rest already. You all are freaking out over a camera that was just announced and not even released yet. Now you want Sony to comment on whether they are going to support it this fall. Why not wait until the camera actually comes out. Its possible that the camera may have production delays etc... So even then, you would have the codec but not the camera.

Right now, Vegas 6 has enough issues that Sony needs to straighten out. I would much prefer that Sony spend all of their attention and resources makign Vegas 6 better before I would want them spending precious resources developing a codec for a camera thats 6 months away.

If the past any indication, you wont see DVC50/DVC HD capture until Vegas 7. Heck, we just got capture/export for HDV in V6.

I would suggest that you work with what you have now and worry about the situation when the camera is actually released for sale. I would like to have it as much as anyone for future use but its not like anyone actually is using this camera in production currently. Until that time, Sony needs to focus on fixing the bugs that have already been reported and any that come to light before they start spreading themself too thin by developing more stuff for Vegas 6.

Just my opinion, logical or not.

I'm with pmasters on this one--this thread is absurd. First of all, very few people can afford the camera and the ridiculously priced memory cards--(Whats it, 2000 grand for eight minutes of storage!) Second of all they didn't even have a prototype of it at NAB (unless it was hidden away in a back room) By the time this baby is released and is affordable enough for people to actually buy it, there will be other cameras on the market that might be as, or more interesting. The fall release of this product will in no way effect Vegas sales.

I'm between Rex and Patrick.
DVCproHD is a low priority, but should eventually be a priority. If shooters are seriously considering jumping from Vegas to another application, they'll want time to learn a new application. On the other hand....what if Sony were to expend resources right now for a non-existent camera, and then Panasonic takes a powder on what they've announced, or they modify some significant parameter? Or worse, are significantly delayed like they've been on other products. It's too early to start screaming for support, but by August or September, it's maybe a different story.

I don't think there's any hysterical tone to some reasonable user requests. We're simply current Vegas users that currently intend to switch to a DVCPRO/50 workflow at some point and we'd like to stick with Vegas. We're just letting Sony know that this is a priority to certain users. No one asked that they drop everything to immediately work on this, so I don't know why anyone has a problem with this. This is the official Sony Vegas forum and we're expressing our wishes for future support. I can't see why anyone would be threatened by a feature request, but there's no need to be rude or belittle other folk's requests directed to Sony.

Spot, that was my whole point. Panansonic created a great deal of buzz and every NLE forum is already screaming for support. All of the major NLE's have their share of bugs they need to work out before they start making DVCproHD a high priority.

Furthermore, I think the NLE users are beginning to get majorily spoiled. A new version was released and already you have people trying to hold their purchases hostage unless this format is supported. It will all have to depend on the market. If Panasonic only sells 500 of these high priced cameras, does it make sense for Sony to spend all these resources for this specific format? Maybe if all 500 owners used Vegas. I think Avid already supports it as we speak or will very soon.

I am all for new features but it just seems majorily premature to demand support for something that doesnt even have a prototype yet and then threaten to take your business elsewhere. If these people are that afraid of Sony not supporting a format that hasnt been released yet, then I say go ahead and learn another NLE. But they will face the same thing in the future with another NLE. Then I am sure they will threaten that company with taking business elsewhere if xyz feature isnt supported.

I have Vegas and Avid. Either way Ill be covered. But I guarantee that by the time I come up with $20K for a useable DVCproHD and P2 cards, some NLE,if not all, will support it fully. But I wouldnt worry about support until Panasonic announces a hard availability date at the earliest.

Galt and others are asking a fair question. This is a time of upheaval with the advent of HDV and it's variants. New tools means changes in workflow and that is often accompanied by a substantial investment. These days NLE choices are abundant and you have to go with the one that works for you. I can also understand Sony may have different priorities. Perhaps it's an opportunity for a 3rd party products to bridge the gaps.

Just sayin'...

I agree that if others jump ship they will need time to learn another NLE but it doesnt take six months to learn another NLE. Users are wanting to know now what Sony's plans of support are for something that is at the very earliest six months away from a targeted release date.

Avid is complex as heck but if someone sat down, theres no reason they couldnt learn the program in a month.

Do not beliefe that this is no issue. We had similar discussions in the German spoken www.vegasvideo.de forum. People think *now* about that, given the announcements and presentations at the NAB.

Off course it would be good to know an answer now - even if I understand that this may not be possible now. But Sony should come up with an answer in the next month.

DVCPRO50 has been around for years.
Point being DV50 is not a new format.
Current cameras like the Panna SDX-900 shoot Pro50 all the time. Pana’s AJ-HDC27F “veri cam” Shoots DVCPRO –HD
If a client wants me to post some DV50 I’ll have to use my old hardware edit system to do it.
I rather use Vegas.

DV50 has indeed been around for years. DVCPRO-HD has been around for four years. This isn't some "overnight" development.

And frankly, I don't see the harm in asking whether they intend to support it. It's not like anyone said "drop everything, stop working on bugs, and implement this NOW". All we did was ask, can you confirm whether you intend to support it or not?

Is that unreasonable? Would it really take that much time out of their day to say "yes, don't worry, we'll get to it" or "no, we're Sony now, so we don't think it's in our best interest to support a competitor's proprietary format", or at least "we're undecided, thanks for the request but we won't even revisit the issue until September"...

We're just looking for clarification. We've been asking this question for months, and never heard a word.

As I've pointed out on the DVX forums, DVCproHD support isn't all you need. Vegas MUST support the mxf file wrapper format as well, otherwise there is no way in hell that anyone will be able to use the P2 workflow.

Unless Vegas supports mxf you will have to capture your footage from the HVX in some other way such as SDI, which I don't believe the camera supports. So in that case the DVCproHD codec is a mute point.

So Vegas needs to be able to unwrap mxf files (then I can use the full xdcam workflow too) and be able to decode the DVCproHD stream contained within them.

If they release mxf support in the next update, which I sincerely hope that they will, then it will just be a case of sorting out the DVCproHD problem.

Wow, reading about the complexities of truly implementing efficient and effective DVCproHD support in Vegas sounds daunting and I must say not too encouraging.

I have supported Sony through decades of purchases and some snobbery in favor of their products. However, I have noticed more and more, through the years, their reluctance to adopt acceptance of standards they don't engineer themselves. I'm sure we're all aware of some of them. It’s kinda like Sony’s way or the highway and that's their earned right, no matter what the end result.

Unfortunately, they decided to embrace 1080i HDV (almost to a fault) for the FX1 and Z1. IMHO, 1080i HDV is a bloated (interlaced) and hard (slow) to edit format. 720p is HDV too, and really a more reasonable choice considering the level of lens used on the those camcorders. Also, I’ve noticed that 720p edits almost as efficiently in Vegas 6 as DV, while 1080i lumbers along at a snails pace (but 720p must not sound as sexy as 1080i to the marketing dept.).

The point is, I think it is wishful thinking, at best, that Sony's Vegas is going to support DVCProHD in any efficient desirable way in the foreseeable future, if ever; and that's a shame because Vegas has always been a NLE thought of as both intuitive and flexible.

Right, they would also need to support MXF files, but if they already have a committment to AAF, then MXF is the flip side of the same coin. MXF is an open interchange standard built on AAF and Sony has already announced support for MXF (hardware). Although Focus Technologies is already developing a standalone MXF unwrapper and I'm sure a few other companies will follow suit.

Please, let's not turn this thread into a format/camera debate. HDV and DVCPROHD will be coexisting and both have their appeal to various users. As a professional tool, I'm hopeful that Vegas will be supporting DVCPROHD as it evolves into another low-to-mid level HD solution. I think we can all agree that Vegas rocks and we'd like it to support whatever format we're using.

Barry, I agree. I am not opposed to the support of DVCproHD. I would like it as well because one never knows what format they will use in the future, the only point I was trying to make is it is premature for people to start asking for support and then making statements of holding their future business hostage as if it will force Sony to support it or at least announce support for it now.

This is what I hope Sony does. I hope Sony does some research on it, figure out if its fiinancially capable, and if developing and implementing this new codec will break anything in their current NLE. If they can do this and continue to offer stability, then I am all for it. I just cant see the reason everyone is asking for support right now for a camera thats six months away from a potential release date.

There's already hinting that the internal vidcap function in Vegas 6, for use with Decklink, will eventually support a format like DVCProHD:

Currently, we capture and print 8-bit YUV 4:2:2 video with 2 channel

In the meantime, can't you edit proxies if you need DVCProHD?

If Sony doesn't proclaim that they'll support DVCProHD, I'll probably prepare to switch.

It's getting hard to stick up for Vegas. I was REALLY disappointed at NAB this year at Sony's three foot by three foot Vegas booth. To me that alone displayed Sony's level of commitment to Vegas.

I am not asking for immediate support, although the DVCPRO-50 & HD formats have been around a long time. What I am asking is that they tell me yay or nay. Here is another less PC way to ask the question, which every Vegas user should care about, unless you get Sony equipment for free and don't mind being married to them. Is Vegas now a stepchild of the camera division, and will they use their leverage or even sacrifice Vegas customers to support internal political decisions regarding video format choices? Is Vegas an independent product line, or solely there to support the cameras?

Vegas has now been part of Sony long enough that prior momentum has given way to corporate politics. The just-now-starting prosumer-HD revolution will no doubt bring more formats and more competing products (cameras, editors, DVDs, and more). So every Vegas user should care about this. I see it as much about the future of Vegas as whether I will waste $200 and a few months on a possibly dead-end upgrade. Is Vegas going to be proprietary or open? If Vegas is going to mean HDV only, I just want to know.

You can rest assured that Vegas isn't the stepchild of the camera division. They aren't related to the camera division, and keep in mind that Vegas was the first application ever, to support the DVX100 camera with full support. Each division at Sony is challenged to be profitable, and I'm certain that the software group is no different, and they'll do what's feasible and necessary to attract or serve what will be a fairly large group of camera users.
Remember, I don't work for Sony, but there is a certain logic that I've come to recognize from this group of engineers...and I'm sure they'll do what's best for the software.

DSE said:

Vegas was the first application ever, to support the DVX100 camera with full support

******************
But wasn't this when Sonic Foundry was still in charge of the product? Whole different agenda now. It's not about what they CAN do, but what they want to do. I will bet that Sony never made a VHS camera while they were still pushing consumer beta players. (2 different divisions there too).