Subject:V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Posted by: Rednroll

Date:4/18/2005 8:33:30 AM

If you've been following the Sony development cycle you would notice the trend of releases.

Vegas/DVDA => Acid => Sound Forge/CDA.....loop back to beginning

So if the trend continues we would be looking at Acid 6 next. I'm hoping that's not the case since Acid 5 seems to need some kinks worked out first and is still an infant. What I'm hoping will be next is the new app some of us have been hoping for "Midi Forge v1.0"

My feature suggestions for Midi Forge.
1. Input quantization record
2. Printable Notation View editor
3. Linked Piano Roll editor, List Editor, Notation view editor
4. Nested Sequence, song arrangment record/playback tracks
5. VSTi support
6. Midi Track program change support
7. Midi bulk dump record and playback
8. Rewire Slave support
9. Tempo Mapping
10. Track midi port//midi channel/Instrument/Patch name selection
11. Master midi controler Instrument/Patch selection without having to arm a track to audition sounds.
12. Track entire/individual note selection (ie I make one click on a drum sequence track and can copy and paste one particular note to a new track and the timing remains the same as on the drum track, but now is on it's own seperate track)
13. Track Quantization options (Straight, grooves, swings, etc.)
14. Wait Note Record with Metrodome
15. Metrodome Count in Record
16. Multiple Midi channel record to record sequences from external sequencers and have each channel appear on it's own midi track in Midi Forge.
17. Metrodome sound/note selection (ie Internal sound or external sound module patch/note selection)
18. Pre roll/Post roll punchin recording
19. Midi sync selections (External Midi clock, Internal/Generate Midi clock, Generate MTC, Slave to MTC)
20. midi track volume and pan slider adjustments.
21. Editable and importable/exportable instrument patch selection

Then let's follow that by Acid pro 6.0 and here's my feature suggestions.
1. Vegas style audio tracks with all Vegas functions (Record/punch-in,edit, ripple, multiple media events on single track)
2. Vegas Ext. Hardware controler support with automation record support
3. Vegas Track switchs (ie channel switch, Group, take,etc.)
4. Vegas Trimmer Window
5. Vegas 6 nested project support
6. Vegas input monitoring support
7. Vegas Media Pool
8. Vegas Phase switches
8. ASIO DM
9. CDtext support

Or simplified list
1. All Vegas audio features added to Acid
2. ASIO DM
3. CDtext Support

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: merlyn

Date:4/18/2005 12:36:14 PM

Rednroll: We can dream can't we? Great list of stuff. After reading the Vegas Audio forum, it seems like the base of Sony's disgruntled audio users is growing. When you read the features list for Vegas 6, it's obvious why. There is only one "all audio" addition to the program (VST effect support). Video is definately the priority with Vegas now and the Vegas audio faithful are not happy about it (although it seems as if the video guys are pretty happy for the most part). The next product from Sony should speak volumes for all Sony audio users (for better or for worse).

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: randygo

Date:4/18/2005 12:39:54 PM

Nice post.

Please Sony, provide a path for the audio users!

You are driving us away from Vegas, so bring us into Acid.

There must be some way to implement Vegas-style freeform tracks into the
Acid framework!

So close yet so far...

Randy

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Klirrfaktor

Date:4/18/2005 1:01:41 PM

hm well.. ive also posted a bunch of "whishes" for acid.. but what you are posting is a totally different application than acid. at least for this moment. think about that acid was never supposed to be a sequencer, but a lot of people do use it for that (including me) and a lot of things are still wearing child shoes. just be patient, acid will grow and grow but i personally dont expect too much in the near future. first thing is to get that baby stable IMO before implementing totally new features which will obviously add also new bugs ;-P

also im thinking sony has to raise the price for acid if all these features would be added. you will not get any software which holds all that features for that cheap price. check steinberg, ableton and all those... ;-/

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: barleycorn

Date:4/18/2005 1:22:35 PM

Rednroll,

What do you think of SONAR 4? It wouldn't take care of everything on your wish list but would seem to get a lot closer than any single Sony application does at the moment.

I agree however that it would be very satisfying to see a sequencer from Sony. Unfortunately, I don't think it's very likely.

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:4/18/2005 1:34:35 PM

Klirrfaktor,
If you read my post correctly, I'm not asking for Acid to be a sequencer. I'm asking for a seperate app (ie codename Midi Forge), that could be strictly focused on Midi sequencing,which then could be rewired to Acid. Sony doesn't have a full featured midi sequencing tool and in my opinion they need one. For Acid, I'm mainly looking for the features that already exist in Vegas for being a full fledged multitrack recorder and editor. If you give Acid the Vegas features that already exist in Vegas which has a very similar GUI as Acid, and in addition make a seperate midi sequencing tool you now can purchase a stand alone midi sequencer, and if you want a full DAW solution tool you purchase both Midi Forge, and Acid with it's new Vegas features, then rewire them together and you have the best DAW solution available. You also have a seperate dedicated midi sequencer that isn't poluted with all the audio features, if want to strictly focus on midi sequencing and Acid is your dedicated audio solution that does both audio loops, mixing and multitracking capabilities.

"What do you think of SONAR 4?"
Thought about it a few times over the past few years, and after this V6 release I will definately be thinking about it a whole lot harder now. With Sonar, I may not like a few things about it, but I can certainly feel comfortable it won't be abandoning it's audio users like some other DAW that I've been using and I can provide feedback and offer feature suggestions to things that I don't like to Cakewalk, just like I have for Sony and not have to worry that it won't be implemented because it will break the video features.

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Klirrfaktor

Date:4/18/2005 2:16:50 PM

yep i saw that.. but you are also posting this in the acid forum and your post also includes feature requests to acid :-p. also a few features you want to see in midi forge are already in acid so i dont really see the idea in a new program.

i like a lot of these features you mentioned and i personally like them in acid, but its a LONG way to go. actually im more for extending acid than build another app. maybe thats why i interpreted your post like this ;-)

for me best thing would be something like cubase with chopper window, explorer window, pitch shifting, soundforge integration, less bloated gui and the audio view of acid. acids layout and idea makes arranging extremly fast and whenever i try to switch to another audioapp i get bored of its handling or look and feel. acid is straight and i figured out almost everything it does without even reading the manual. that speaks for itself!

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:4/18/2005 3:05:50 PM

Great to have Vegas audio users on our side.

1. Raise the price of Acid (never imagined i will write this at the old AP2 times).

2. Give the people what they want

3. Peter, Joel, etc... After all this hard work, take some vacations (serioulsy, this is will be as necessary as our feature requests ^^)

PS : I still don't really agree with midi forge even if I find this project really attractive. Acid's power resides also is its all-in-one-window workflow.

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:4/18/2005 3:18:56 PM

"also a few features you want to see in midi forge are already in acid so i dont really see the idea in a new program. "

Well, you obviously haven't as many discussions on this forum as I have with Sony regarding midi features in Acid. I have asked for the additional midi features in Acid, but have been told time and time again, that Acid is not a midi sequencer and trying to make it that would ruin what it's good at of being a loop sequencer. So obviously, Sony therefore needs a dedicated midi sequencer that it's development will be focused on midi sequencing if Acid isn't going to grow up and become one. Where adding the Vegas features wouldn't change the GUI of Acid, you would just need to have one additional item like in Vegas of "insert audio track" just like you see "insert midi track" under the "insert" menu in Acid. So an Acid track would function the same as it does now, and if you do an "insert audio track" then this type of track functions exactly like it does in Vegas. If you decide not to use the feature you would never know it's there. Have you ever used Vegas? If you have then you would know exactly what I'm talking about and Vegas looks exactly like Acid with a very simple intuitive interface.

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: randygo

Date:4/18/2005 3:42:11 PM

Conceptually, integrating Vegas-style audio tracks into Acid would be ideal.

Those of us audio guys who need to do ocassional looping will be happy and the hardcore loopers will have true audio tracks available should they ever need them. Neither group would see much change in the way they work - they simply would choose not to "Insert Audio Track" or "Insert Acid track".

Technically I can see no reason why a Vegas track and an ACID track can't sit side by side on the timeline. I'm sure some sensible rules could be implemented about what happens (if anything) to the audio tracks when tempos are changed, etc...

As it is now we have this fantastic audio app living crippled inside what has become a video-centric app. I understand the historical reasons for this, but Sony really needs to do something to fix this problem.


Randy

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:4/18/2005 4:52:50 PM

What's a metrodome? A football stadium?

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:4/18/2005 5:09:02 PM

Funny!!! You got me, my spelling stinks....LOL!!! ok..ok..."Metronome". A football stadium would be cool too though. :-)

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:4/18/2005 6:30:35 PM

>have been told time and time again,
>that Acid is not a midi sequencer
-Rednroll

Lol, I love when they say this... Acid is not a multitracker, Acid is not a midi sequencer, Acid is just a simple Loop Sequencer... Ok then, so Acid can be compared to Recycle ^^. If they stick on this marketing philosophy, they will, indeed, not increase sales, but decrease the price.

I hope people at SonyMediaSoftware will once for good see things big (not only more develloper, and more expensive retail, but get into the real pro audio soft competition).

Well, as I said you conviced me about the idea. I'm sure Sony MidiForge 1.0 (incl. ReWire) would be a great tool for SMS' software family.

But I'm not sure they'll have the time to do such a software. Knowing that it takes huge amount of time to devellop a decent release (e.g. AP4 to 5), and knowing that if they don't take their time, you only get a lonely VST Fx support in Vegas 6 for audio users... Well, that just scares me.

So yes, knowing this reality, I'm not sure the priority is making a brand new software, but trying to catch up competition first. No, not competition, we don't care. At least, this forum's users needs. That'll be a miracle. At least what you (and many other, including me) requested in this forum.

C'mon, raise the price, we don't care. But hire more devellopers. Steal some devellopers from Steinberg so we don't get weird VST interpretations as Steinberg Pro Forums don't help.
Hire some angry unpromoted Sonar devellopers, so we get a great multitrack and midi feature/improvement.
Steal marketing directors from Apple so your software get to be worldwide known again.
Pay some well-known artists to make video where they say "I use it everyday, and my hair are more silky"... Or something like that.

But first, believe more harder in your software. As much as we believe in it , us, here, in this forum.

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Klirrfaktor

Date:4/19/2005 12:53:49 AM

yep of course i have used vegas, but not for audio at all. it doesnt have all that neat features which makes me acid addicted :-p but for editing video its the greatest app ever.
i cannot exactly tell what the features of a vegas audio track are, but i often think of an audio track which is not loop based in acid. this is missing until now.
see.. i can read that request for this feature and advanced midi support a lot on this forum and i think if we people are willing to pay, there will be a good chance we get these features once. i remember when acid didnt even have midi support at all ;-)
for me its no problem either if the price raises. quality has its price and acid has the power to become the best audio app ever and so i think its a good investment.

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:4/19/2005 6:45:05 AM

Suggestions?

Its all been said before over and over...After seeing the vegas release I honestly don't have the patience to "restate" anything. If they don't know by now then forget about it. If they really want to know then click on my name and look up my feature suggestions.

I'm sure they have a huge "to do" list posted somewhere in their office space. Someday I guess.

Ed.

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Illogical

Date:4/19/2005 10:33:38 AM

""also a few features you want to see in midi forge are already in acid so i dont really see the idea in a new program. "

"Well, you obviously haven't as many discussions on this forum as I have with Sony regarding midi features in Acid. I have asked for the additional midi features in Acid, but have been told time and time again, that Acid is not a midi sequencer and trying to make it that would ruin what it's good at of being a loop sequencer. So obviously, Sony therefore needs a dedicated midi sequencer "

First, Sony already ruined Acid, so their BS excuses can suck on my hard drive, the last thing I am going to buy is yet another app from SPD to get Acid to sort of do what every other DAW/sequencer already does. Rednroll, I appreciate the fact your trying an alternate tack with these wackos, but really you're just encouraging them to stay in their sorry mind state. I don't want to run Vegas rewired to acid rewired to midiforge, i (and many others) want one app that does everything a software studio should do. The sooner Sony understands that, the sooner they can stop droppin the price every 3 months.

Subject:RE: V6 Released, What's Next? Suggestions?

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:4/19/2005 4:25:11 PM

>the sooner they can stop droppin the price every 3 months
Ehm, every 2 and a half, exactly ^^.

Illogical is (again and again) right.

Acid 6.0 must have multitracking abilities (so you'll recover disappointed Audio Veggies), and full blown midi (i.e. rednroll posts, mine, and many others). All this rock solid. It's now time to hurry up, you guys can't wait for 7.0 to catch up all these musthaves.

Again, for stability, a lot of people here can help if you allowed them to by giving away some beta releases.

Medialibrary wasn't this forum's n°1 request. I'm sure most of us do not use it on a daily basis. Even if it's one of the greatest, most powerful, and most innovative feature ever created in the audio production software market, this should have been kept for ver.6.
AP5.0 should have been the continuous devellopement of features integrated in 4.0 (e.g. Midi sequencer, VSTi automations, HUI support, and multitrack recording ala Vegas).

I know this may take long, and will be pricy for customers. But hey, this software is a Professionnal one. Pros are used to spend big money for big tools. To make their project grow faster and make other big bucks, and so on.

For my part, if Acid is going multitrack, I'm ready to buy it @ $700 to $850.