Subject:Trying to work out ACID 5 midi - with external gear

Posted by: Ben 

Date:4/8/2005 6:30:05 PM

Hi

I'm trying the Acid 5 demo to see if I can get it working with my external midi modules; this is something I was never able to do very successfully with Acid 4 and ended up giving up on it for midi work, moving back to Sonar again. I'm trying again to work out if anything's changed for the better with 5, and/or to check if I was doing something wrong last time.

I have a couple of midi modules hooked up, together with a keyboard for midi input. My problem is that whatever midi channel a track is assigned, when that channel is selected and I'm trying something out on my keyboard, Acid only plays through channel 1. In other words, when I hit play that track will play midi channel 6, for example, through my module, but when I play something on my keyboard, it'll always just playback channel 1. This makes trying to find the right patch really hard and just stifles the creative process. Obviously with other sequencers, whatever channel a track is assigned to you also can monitor through.

So, the question, am I being dense, or is this a limitation of Acid? A solution would be great if someone can help...

Thanks

Ben

Subject:RE: Trying to work out ACID 5 midi - with external gear

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:4/8/2005 11:08:07 PM

> So, the question, am I being dense, or is this a limitation of Acid?

It’s just a limitation of ACID. ACID is NOT a MIDI sequencer application. It cannot be compared to SONAR in that regard. If you want to play back your track through an external MIDI module that’s listening to channel 6, then you need to change the channel on your MIDI controller so that it’s playing on channel 6. ACID will not do the routing for you. A good reason for this is that you CANNOT assign a MIDI channel to a track in ACID. ACID MIDI tracks can contain multiple real MIDI tracks on several channels so there isn’t a one-to-one mapping. How would ACID know what channel to route your controller to? So what you want to do will never be possible in ACID. It’s a different paradigm than SONAR and other MIDI sequencers.

~jr

Subject:RE: Trying to work out ACID 5 midi - with external gear

Reply by: Ben 

Date:4/9/2005 5:20:33 AM

Thanks for the quick response JohnnyRoy - it's appreciated.

I'm well aware Acid isn't a full MIDI blown sequencer to say the least, and have followed and been involved in many debates about this and Vegas over the years on these forums!

I do, though, think that this is very bizarre - like it or not, ACID does have the ability to route to external hardware. And if you're using external MIDI hardware, what I'm asking for is pretty much what you'd want and expect ACID to do; it's pretty useless without being able to do this. It's the equivalent of inserting, say, Absynth as a VSTi but then every time you select that channel and try and play through it, you actually hear the piano from the DLS synth!

> good reason for this is that you CANNOT assign a MIDI channel to a track in ACID. ACID MIDI tracks can contain multiple real MIDI tracks on several channels so there isn’t a one-to-one mapping. How would ACID know what channel to route your controller to? <

This is where I get a bit lost. As far as I can see anyway, you do assign MIDI tracks to channels. Isn't that what's under General in Track Properties? Or is that for the actual event itself?

> So what you want to do will never be possible in ACID. It’s a different paradigm than SONAR and other MIDI sequencers. <

I've got to take issue with this. It's not possible in ACID simply because it hasn't been properly implemented. Why have a big section in the help file on "Using External MIDI Devices" if ACID doesn't really intend you to use them with the software?!

I'm really not trying to have a go at you JohnnyRoy, just venting my frustration with this software! I'm more concerned with this than any of the other MIDI limitations, so of which can be worked around. I'm find this a very hard thing to ignore!

Thanks

Ben

Subject:RE: Trying to work out ACID 5 midi - with external gear

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:4/10/2005 4:33:19 AM

Ben,

> This is where I get a bit lost. As far as I can see anyway, you do assign MIDI tracks to channels. Isn't that what's under General in Track Properties? Or is that for the actual event itself?

Yes you assign MIDI tracks to channels but NOT ACID tracks to MIDI channels. So let’s say ACID Track 1 contains three MIDI tracks on channels 2, 4, & 6. When you select ACID Track 1, which MIDI channel should ACID route to? You see the problem?

Other programs do their routing tricks because they have MIDI tracks mapped to their own tacks one-for-one. ACID does not so it lets you route the output by changing the channel on your MIDI controller. If your MIDI device is listening to channel 6, then you need to set your controller to transmit on channel 6.

> It's the equivalent of inserting, say, Absynth as a VSTi but then every time you select that channel and try and play through it, you actually hear the piano from the DLS synth!

I agree it should work consistently. I think maybe its because the VSTi’s are in Omni mode? You might try setting your external MIDI devices to Omni mode. This might make the behavior the same. ACID will only send the notes from that track to the device so this should work.

> I've got to take issue with this. It's not possible in ACID simply because it hasn't been properly implemented. Why have a big section in the help file on "Using External MIDI Devices" if ACID doesn't really intend you to use them with the software?!

But you can use them, just like you use them in real life. If you just have your MIDI controller plugged into you MIDI device and the controller is on channel 1 and the device is on channel 6 the device doesn’t play. You have to switch your controller to channel 6 (or the device to channel 1).

> I'm really not trying to have a go at you JohnnyRoy, just venting my frustration with this software

No problem. I understand your frustration entirely. I was just trying to explain the logic behind it. I don’t use my external MIDI devices for recording anymore (only for live playing) so it doesn’t affect me. What you want is for ACID to automatically re-route MIDI data to the MIDI channel in a track. But tracks in ACID can contain multiple MIDI channels, which is why I said it wasn’t possible.

There are two possible solutions: 1) Have ACID re-route to the first MIDI channel in a track by default unless you open the track and highlight another MIDI track in which it should route to that channel instead. 2) Create a new type of MIDI Track on ACID (MIDI Solo) that only allows one track of MIDI data and have those tracks assignable to a MIDI channel at the ACID Track level. (I suppose they could add a “Route default MIDI channel” property on the existing MIDI track as well.

Of course, the real solution is to use SONAR, or Tracktion, or Cubase, or Project 5, or Reason, or some other MIDI Sequencer application that has all these little bells and whistles because we all know that ACID is NOT a MIDI Sequencer. ;-)

I would submit a suggestion to Sony’s suggestion form to add a “Route default MIDI channel” property on the existing MIDI track. This seems like the easiest way to implement what you’re asking for. Also try setting your external MIDI devices to Omni mode and see if they behave like the VSTi’s do.

~jr