Subject:Anyone using dual Echo cards? Bug

Posted by: Rednroll

Date:4/7/2005 7:45:37 PM

I'm using dual Gina20 cards and found a bug, and would appreciate it to hear from others if you have dual echo cards and see the same results. Using Windows XP pro.

Repro steps:
1. Use Windows Classic Wave driver
2. Have "purewave" selected for all Echo card outputs
3. In Acid put 2 buses in the mixer section
4. Route bus#1 to any Echo card#1 outputs
5. Route bus#2 to any Echo Card#2 outputs.
6. Add a single audio track to the project and route it to Bus#1
7. Play it back to ensure you can hear the audio playing.
8. Goto File>Render>Stereo Wav.
9. Open up the rendered file
10.Bug-No audio present in that file

11. Now delete Bus#2
12. Goto File>Render>Stereo Wav.
13. Open up the rendered file
Audio is present like you heard
I was also able to reproduce this just assigning a single bus to Echo Card#2 and then routing the audio track to that bus. Plays back fine, no audio during the rendered file.

I also reproduced this in Vegas 4 and Vegas 5, so it seems like it's been there for awhile, I just normally don't render inside of Vegas or Acid, because I route my tracks to my mixing board and then record the output of my mixing board to a new stereo track record.

TIA,
Red

Subject:RE: Anyone using dual Echo cards? Bug

Reply by: Illogical

Date:4/8/2005 6:29:08 AM

I have a single Echo card, send me one of yours and I'll try it out ; )

Mine's a Mia MIDI...why are you using the WDM drivers? The ASIO ones work way better for me.

What advantages does having two sound cards give you?

Just curious.

Subject:RE: Anyone using dual Echo cards? Bug

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:4/8/2005 9:14:49 AM

Can't use ASIO for accessing more than 1 card at a time. Supposedly asio4all will let you do that, but never tried that.

Subject:RE: Anyone using dual Echo cards? Bug

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:4/8/2005 9:47:07 AM

"What advantages does having two sound cards give you?"

Expandability, as your workflow expands, so can your system without having to repurchase the same product. Echo cards work very happily together on the same system. I purchased my first Echo Gina mainly for mastering work, but also would start to use it in Vegas and Acid. Later I upgraded my mixing board to a Yamaha 03D, which has 16 channels, you can plug analog signals into. It also has 4 bus outputs. Each Gina has 8 analog outs and 2 analog ins, and a stereo digi in/out. You put two of those in the same PC and now you have 16 analog outs, and 4 analog ins......hmmm what a coincidence exactly the same configuratiion that my 03D has, thus I can route 16 individual audio signals to my external mixer, use my hardware FX's compressors, and EQs, that sound better than any PC plugin I've used. Then I run the digital out of the mixing board into one of the Gina cards and record the entire mix into Vegas as it plays back. I also purchased an expansionb card for my 03D, which gives me an additional 8 channel inputs. I could buy a 3rd gina, and now have 24 outs, to feed to my 24 inputs on my mixing board. So you tell me what the advantages of having a total of 8 ins and 20 outs to your PC would be when you're mixing and recording audio, and that I/O can further expand as my needs expand. Of course if you're recording loops off of CD's, or not more than 1 stereo track at a time and totally mixing inside Acid using reverb plugins that want to sound like a Lexicon, then you probably have no need for this. I choose to use an actual Lexicon reverb, than something trying to sound like a Lexicon. Even the two internal FX's proceesors in my 03D sound better than any Direct X FX's Ive used and having my setup I can pretty easily do A/B comparisons.

I've been using the Pure Wave drivers simply to avoid multiple card conflict issues associated with ASIO, and running into multiple app sharing issues within my workflow and also Sound Forge has not supported ASIO until recently, so maybe it's time to make a change. BTW, the WDM and ASIO is the same driver, thus why it says in Acid drivers selection " Echo WDM ASIO driver".

Subject:RE: Anyone using dual Echo cards? Bug

Reply by: Illogical

Date:4/8/2005 10:18:53 AM

Yikes, I'd have no room for my bed with all that gear. I've got some external stuff (still looking for a budget channel strip solution if anyone's got any suggestions), but nothing quite on that scale. I guess mo gear, mo problems, eh? Well, thanks for responding in depth, I know I've pissed you off in the past, probably will again in the future, but your insights are always very, er, insightful. Cheers!

Subject:RE: Anyone using dual Echo cards? Bug

Reply by: SonyJennL

Date:4/8/2005 12:42:34 PM

Hi Red,

Rendering only renders out the Master bus. If you have any other bus assigned directly to the hardware, it will not be rendered. (You will find this in the "Routing Busses" online help topic.) If you do want the aux busses rendered, you need to use either the Multiple Mono or Multiple Stereo render options.

I'm wondering about the second half, though... If you are getting audio in your rendered file when all audio is routed to an aux bus, that would be a bug. I'm not reproducing, though. By any chance, is the hardware output you have selected for the aux bus the same as what you have selected for your master bus?

Thanks,
Jenn

Subject:RE: Anyone using dual Echo cards? Bug

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:4/8/2005 3:18:35 PM

Jenn,
A single track is assigned to the master bus. In this case it's assigned to Gina#1 Analog outs 1/2. Here it will render fine. Now, If I add another bus, which would now be "BusA" and then assign Bus A to the outputs of Gina card#2......note, no audio routed to it, then render....then there's no audio in the rendered file, although audio is heard through the master bus. Now let's say, I just click on the master bus, and hit the delete key. So now "BusA", now becomes the new master bus and then I make sure the single audio track is routed to that bus, then I render......again no audio is in the rendered file. So here I have a single master bus, a single audio track routed to that master bus, but now that master bus is assigned to an output on my second Gina card, here you will get no audio in the rendered file.

Basically it requires a second Echo card. If you have the master bus assigned to Gina Card #1, no problems with the render. If you have the master bus assigned to Gina Card #2, no audio in the rendered file. If you need anymore details, just let me know. Check with Ivan and Dennis, one of them reproed it in Vegas.

One additional note, you need to have the Windows Classic Wave driver selected and the Echo cards, need to running in "purewave" mode. It seems to function properly when I changed to the ASIO driver and WDM selected in the Echo console.

Thanks Jenn,
Red