Subject:Piano roll and time signature

Posted by: JamesHE

Date:3/27/2005 11:40:54 AM

I'm new to Acid and MIDI in general, just working with the 5.0 pro demo right now. I would like to start using acid as an arranging tool. I do not have a midi input device, so I'm stuck experimenting with the piano roll for now. i'm a total midiot. :P
Is there a way to have the Piano roll not be in 4/4 time? no matter where i set my time signature, or how I edit the roll, the actual loop that gets painted on is in 4/4. What controls the length of the midi event? how can I change the time signature (how it is displayed on the piano roll). I understand how to change it on the time line in acid, by the midi events aren't working out.

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:3/29/2005 12:47:35 PM

Hmmm...the MIDI track properties window's beat ruler changes just like it does on the main timeline, but the MIDI event itself paints out as if it's like 4/4.

I did notice that as the MIDI track grows in length, the event is also similarly longer before it loops.

This would obviously put a damper on anyone seeking to use ACID Pro to loop MIDI using alternate time signatures. This may be a bug. Can anyone else repro?

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:3/29/2005 2:58:29 PM

> Can anyone else repro?

Looks like a bug to me. I can’t get MIDI to do anything but 4/4 loops.

~jr

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:3/29/2005 4:23:20 PM

"I can’t get MIDI to do anything but 4/4 loops."

That's the only time signature that matters anyway, so it's not a bug it's just a workflow limitation because, 90% of the top hit music is in 4/4. Take your 3/4 and 6/8 swings out of here, "Acid Rocks!!!". :-)~

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: JamesHE

Date:3/29/2005 5:09:18 PM

yeah this is really lame.

I found this in the help files:

For loop tracks, the software assumes that each beat is a quarter note. When you choose a time signature in which a note other than the quarter note receives one beat, you can see inconsistencies in loop lengths on the timeline.

translation: loops don't work right in odd times.

so here is the work around; once I get things laid out in the piano roll like I want (ignoreing the extra 8th notes) Using the pencil tool I drag out the measure to the correct grid line - which it snaps to - then release the mouse and repeat. This really means a lot more steps. The time/tempo markers work well. I could really really really use those in Vegas!

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:3/29/2005 5:16:37 PM

> Take your 3/4 and 6/8 swings out of here

Well us aging progressive rockers like to write in 7/8. ;-)

Render to new track also doesn’t seem to work properly either. When I rendered a MIDI loop in 7/8 it came back as a one-shot. If I try and make it a loop of 7 beats ACID incorrectly sets the tempo of the loop to 200BPM.

I even went into Sound Forge and manually set the ACID properties to a loop of 7 beats and ACID still thought it was 200BPM. If I highlight only the first 4 beats in Sound Forge, the ACID Properties windows shows 200BPM. It seems to be a limitation in the ACID metadata since there is no way to tell ACID that 7 beats equals one measure in the properties.

So it seems that ACID is incapable of detecting anything that doesn’t have 4 beats per measure. :(

~jr

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:3/29/2005 5:22:41 PM

> For loop tracks, the software assumes that each beat is a quarter note. When you choose a time signature in which a note other than the quarter note receives one beat, you can see inconsistencies in loop lengths on the timeline.

Ok that was the secret. 7/4 works just fine when you Render to new Track (MIDI looping is still broken). So it only works for rendering when a quarter note gets one beat.

~jr

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:3/30/2005 10:36:45 AM

JamesHE: Try using ACID's paste repeat feature. Copy the event (once it's correctly drawn) to the clipboard, then use CTRL+B with the "end to end" option. (Make sure you also place the cursor where you want the pasting to begin.)

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: JamesHE

Date:3/30/2005 2:27:17 PM

"Try using ACID's paste repeat feature. Copy the event (once it's correctly drawn) to the clipboard, then use CTRL+B with the "end to end" option. (Make sure you also place the cursor where you want the pasting to begin.)"

I have fallen into doing just this, similar to how I would use Vegas. The only problem is that if I edit the MIDI, I have to repaste everything. Not the end of the world, just potentailly confusing!

Thanks for the input!

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: Paloalto

Date:4/8/2005 12:22:23 PM

DO you know if it's possible to set up a new project in 6/8, and then use loops done in 4/4, and have them work in 6/8?

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: Illogical

Date:4/8/2005 12:41:30 PM

"DO you know if it's possible to set up a new project in 6/8, and then use loops done in 4/4, and have them work in 6/8?"

answer's still no...they'll work, but they won't magically convert to a different time signature. But who knows, might get some interesting results. This does seem like one of those things you coulda just tried, though...

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: Paloalto

Date:4/8/2005 1:01:43 PM

Well...next time I'll try something out before I inquire about it via this medium. However, being at work and not in the studio, and not having done the "chopping" routine before, and considering the convenience of the e-mail thing and all ... All apologies.

Subject:RE: Piano roll and time signature

Reply by: Illogical

Date:4/8/2005 1:13:42 PM

no worries, paloalto, you got one of those type of jobs too, eh?

I bet Sony hopes my boss gives me more work soon...