Subject:A few months will not work

Posted by: Spheris

Date:3/28/2005 9:03:55 AM

I'm not going to phrase this in the way of a flame as much as an appeal.

The known buglist is expansive and covers mostly staples to the program that have been working since 1.0. Things happen, we all know that, but there was apparently a month between the final build and release time to assess and address the problems at hand. Rush to market may have played a part, but not in this case. Granted, I've had some help with the problems most pertinent to my situation but even at that. Every time I open the app - it's a little like starting windows in safe mode for the perceptible feeling I had to disable functions to enable others. I expect that from GNU and shareware betas. Not a shipping product with Sony/SF's reputation for quality and working set and I'm doubtful I'm alone with that.

It needs an address and a bit sooner than a few months time. It's already becoming an issue of people looking for alternates (I'm a more staunch user than to consider that yet - but market share is market share from any user level). Do what you can to stop that now.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: PeterXI

Date:3/28/2005 9:31:13 AM

If SF7 works for you and you already have Vegas for scrubbing, what is the motivation to change to a different set of tools? Vegas 5 is in version d now and Vegas Audio 2 got all the way to g. If Sony hadn't released 8 we'd still be using 7 so....

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: Sonic

Date:3/28/2005 10:50:36 AM

Personally, I'd love it if Sony had a mechanism to pump out small updates willy-nilly over the course of weeks instead of months, but I understand that there are good reasons not to attempt that from both business and user perspectives. I don't control it either way, so I won't bother debating it.

Here is a list of all issues that I have reproduced and responded to on this forum.

- Tools->Find is broken - the worst of the bunch, no workaround
- Some Channel Converter settings have issues. Workaround by disabling SSE2 internal pref.
- VST preset behavior from FX Favorites are flaky. They work as expected in the plug-in chainer.
- Record Input Monitoring is somewhat hidden and enabled by default. It probably shouldn't be. It can be disabled in Options->Prefs->Audio.
- Shift+New and Shift+R don't supress their respective dialogs, an annoyance, yes, but hardly a hanging offense.
- Ctrl+Shift+Right Arrow misbehaves in a very annoying fashion. Several other selection methods provide that functionality (e.g. Shift+double-click).
- Ctrl+Left Arrow/Right Arrow navigates correctly, but doesn't center on the next/previous marker. Annoying, but a single keystroke ('\') re-centers.
- [,] no longer Mark In and Mark Out, but can be re-assigned in Options->Prefs->Keyboard.
- AIFF files don't meter correctly. Workaround by toggling the bit-depth up and down in the status bar.
- File Associations UI is flaky. The associations take in Windows, but aren't reflected in the checkboxes.

IMHO, the Find thing is the only really disastrous bug. The others are temporary annoyances with workarounds. These have all been resolved for 8.0a, which I have on good authority should be available some time in the next *couple* (not few) months.

J.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: mpd

Date:3/28/2005 4:33:12 PM

Sony acknowledged a bug with preset migration from SF7 to SF8. The workaround is to recreate them in SF8. This isn't major, but it is a bit annoying for those who use a lot of presets in the daily workflow.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:3/28/2005 4:58:54 PM

Spheris, you sure do like to get on a soap box and make demands. Let me make another point aside from your over reaction as pointed out by Sonic in his very good concise reply. When SF8.0 was released, there was also a demo released at the exact same time. Did you download that demo? It's fully functional for 30 days so you can make sure for yourself that it works in your workflow before you purchase it. If the answer is NO, then shame on you and get off the soap box, because 8.0 hasn't even been out for 30 days yet.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: Spheris

Date:3/28/2005 6:33:08 PM

Not making demands red, what was posted here was an appeal...and the current build was 30 days done when it and its trial became available.

But so we're clear on this. The appeal had more to do with another thread I looked in on with someone offering a disappointed 8 cutomer a cheap deal on their audition license.

Granted, noone is holding a gun to anyones head to make them use one thing or another. But it said volumes about what these sort of fubars (and this one was a little above the usual - sonics only minimising about the find break and the sse2 problem - it goes much deeper than that if you think about all the related functions reliant on the find function alone)

But again, a flame was not the purpose here. But to make it clear - this is having an effect. On more than just one person and that's really it. I said my peace, sonic made his known as well (although, the message was disappointing in what it did mean) and we're all on the same page. A fix will show when it shows, some will jump ship - others will never get onboard and some will wait with a fair amount of patience ( I fall into that group) while I watch the other two go one way or another and ultimately impact the future development course in lost market share..

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: sirshambling

Date:3/29/2005 3:33:40 AM

Sonic's reply does not include the issue I have with recording in SF8. This is the primary use I make of the software - and have since SF4 over many years.

The latest release does not allow any other function to be performed - such as browsing the net or doing email - while recording is taking place without my PC "freezing" from time to time causing drop-outs in the recording.

SF7 does allow that and that's why I'm

a) going back to SF7
b) looking at alternatives like Audition.

I've had very good results fom SF over many years and am disappointed with version 8. I'm hoping that the first bug fix will solve this issue for me but since I'm apparently the only person with this problem and Sonic hasn't listed it I'm not hopeful.

John.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: drbam

Date:3/29/2005 6:40:25 AM

>>The latest release does not allow any other function to be performed - such as browsing the net or doing email - while recording is taking place without my PC "freezing" from time to time causing drop-outs in the recording.<<

With all due respect, I personally don' t know, nor have I ever heard of someone who is involved in serious and/or professional audio production that would even remotely consider checking email or surfing the net while performing an audio function in an app like SF – unless of course it was on a completely different computer. Most professional systems are rarely, if ever, connected to the internet. If they are, its usually to do a quick download of a patch or update and/or registering same, then the system is *physically* disconnected from any online source.

drbam

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: Sonic

Date:3/29/2005 7:25:25 AM

I would love some more info on your record issues. Please fill in your system specs in your profile when you have a moment.

If you happen to use ACID or Vegas, I'd like to know how those are working for you w.r.t. recording, as well.

I only listed the issues that I could reproduce and know have been resolved. That doesn't mean there aren't others. If it can be reproduced, it can be fixed.

J.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: billybk

Date:3/29/2005 8:01:54 AM

Using my finely tuned and virus free DAW, to surf the net and post emails, you got to be kidding. No way Jose, a potential recipe for disaster, IMHO.
I keep my DAW lean & clean , only AV related software/hardware, on my precious baby. No games, virus programs, internet related apps,
screensavers, ...etc....if it does not have anything to do with mulit-media AV production, it does not go on my computer. I don't even allow PACE, dongles or any obtrusive copy protection crap, on my DAW's either. My DAW is ultra stable and runs like a top and I aim to keep it that way.

I use an old PII 333Mhz desktop to do my emailing and websurfing and software downloads, via my DSL modem. I then use a 256MB USB drive to transfer data, to and from, my DAW.

I would not even think about doing a recording session while doing email and websurfing, at the same time, on the same computer. Just because you can do it, does not mean it's a good idea.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: Kanst

Date:3/29/2005 11:21:30 AM

Ya... SonicFoundry has no so bugly soft...
But IMHO we must give Sony a chance and wait for bugfixes
:)

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: sirshambling

Date:3/30/2005 9:53:03 AM

Thanks for taking the trouble to read my post. System specs are in my profile now.

I don't have Vegas or ACID but I've been trying Audition 1.5 out and that allows me to multi-task while recording - as does SF7 - as did SF6 before that.

And by "recording" I ought to clarify what I mean by that in view of the expressions of horror that my previous post has generated. Sadly, I'm not a professional musician, I have to earn my mortgage payments in other ways. I'm merely transferring my large (25,000+) pieces of vinyl to my hard disc by connecting an SDPIF lead from one of my amps to my sound card, using SF7 or SF8 to "record" the tracks, then using NR2 (or other programs) to clean them up before archiving them to CD.

I know it's not much compared to composing your own music but lack of talent prevents me from attempting to do that - and what I do simple though it may be is very important to me. And SF8 has made the process a bit less easy/enjoyable.

I hope this may help to pinpoint my issue - and hopefully solve it.

TIA. John.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: Sonic

Date:3/30/2005 12:55:03 PM

Which driver model are you using?
What format are you recording to?
Does it happen if you use analog instead of S/PDIF?
Have you checked for IRQ or other resource conflicts?
Is the Audigy the only device on the system?

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: sirshambling

Date:3/30/2005 2:56:02 PM

Thanks for repsonding.

Driver model? If you mean in options/preferences/audio I've tried MS sound mapper, Windows classic wave driver and Creative ASIO - same result.
Format - standard 16bit stereo 44.1 WAV.
Analogue or SPDIF makes no difference.
No resource conflicts in Device Manager.
Audigy 4 is the only sound card I've got installed.

Thanks again. John.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: MyrnaLarson

Date:4/4/2005 10:28:58 PM

You are not the only one with this problem. I've had it, too, and since the drop-outs aren't marked in any way, there's no way to know whether your recording is good or not. I, too, have reinstalled SF7, to use at least for recording. In SF8, the scripts and export to CDA are the only reason I haven't uninstalled it.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: MyrnaLarson

Date:4/4/2005 10:39:42 PM

Hi, John: I am doing the same sort of recording that you are -- transferring LPs to CD, with SF and NR to remove the the crackle and noise.

I have a 2.8gHz Pentium 4 with 1.6 gigabytes of memory

Maybe the pros don't ever do anything BUT record, but the point is that in both SF6 and SF7, I could record AND run PhotoShop AND run my scanner to prepare the labels for the CD and the case WHILE I was recording. I NEVER got a drop-out or a lock-up.

IOW, there has been a HUGE step backward in this department. Who would have ever expected that with such a basic function as recording, particularly given that the "What's New" info doesn't mention a word about changes in recording ability (AIR). But there thave been some -- the Monitor fiasco, and the fact that the Gap Detection mode has been removed from the right-click menu and seems to default to "Ignore". I find this a rea bummer. As I have already said, I have had to reinstall SF7 in order to record efficiently (by that I mean just record, not run any other programs at the same time).

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: Kanst

Date:4/5/2005 11:27:42 AM

The AUDIGY "family" isn't best choice for quality recording.
Some better results you can get with alternative drivers for AUDIGY (and other EMU-chip based cards) http://kxproject.lugosoft.com

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/5/2005 12:49:10 PM

sirshambling:

What buffer size are you using when

recording using Wave Classic?
recording using ASIO?

Peter

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: MyrnaLarson

Date:4/5/2005 1:44:59 PM

That's a question that I posed to the Tech Support fellow -- how do you set the buffer size? I knew how to do it in SF6, and I had it set at 1.5 megabytes. I have no idea what it is now, or how to increase it. Can you shed any light on what I should do to get a 1.5 meg buffer?

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: MyrnaLarson

Date:4/5/2005 1:46:23 PM

PS: The TS fellow couldn't tell me.

He suggested the problem was with my sound card driver and that I update it. I have the latest driver (Turtle Beach Santa Cruz). I didn't have recording problems in SF5, 6, or 7.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/5/2005 6:11:17 PM

Yes, we did change things in order to support ASIO.

Since you are using a TB card, I am assuming that it does not have ASIO drivers and therefore you are using Wave Classic or the Microsoft Sound Mapper mode.

From the audio prefs page.

There is a slider labled "Playback Buffering (seconds)"

It defaults to 0.100 seconds (100 milliseconds)

Try increasing this to 0.500 or even 1.000

If this does not fix your problem, then you can click on the Advanced button on the Audio prefs page and set the

Priority to Normal
Number of Buffers to 2

Peter

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: MyrnaLarson

Date:4/6/2005 9:21:13 PM

The only sources listed are MS Sound Mapper, and Wave Classic (which then displays the Santa Cruz card). I've tried recording with both, with the same results. I wasn't sure what/how to change the buffer size. I'll try your suggestions.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: Kanst

Date:4/7/2005 2:46:29 AM

I'm work fine in SF7 with TBS Fiji with settings (Preferences > Wave)
Total buffer size 1536kb
Preload size 1536kb
In SF8 can't find optimal buffer settings fo such fine working - anytime it freeze during recording process.
But with Audigy2 (KXProject driver) SF8 work fine with default buffer settings.
Thus I deside not bye SF8 yet.

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: MyrnaLarson

Date:4/8/2005 3:35:46 PM

Setting Buffering to 0.5 seconds, Normal Priority and 2 buffers *seems* to fix the problems with lockups, but, WITHOUT GAP DETECTION, I have no idea whether there are gaps in the file. PLEASE put that feature BACK!!!!!

Given a fixed number of seconds, what is the practical difference between, say 2 larger buffers and 8 smaller ones? Why is that option available? Which is more likely to eliminate gaps?

Subject:RE: A few months will not work

Reply by: MyrnaLarson

Date:4/8/2005 3:37:02 PM

IMO the worst problem is the missing Gap Detection.