Subject:UAD-1 CPU Munching

Posted by: bgc

Date:3/29/2005 7:17:24 PM

I've heard that the UAD-1 cpu munching problem went away when using VST effects. I just did a testin in A5 with DX and VST plugins and both still exhibit the problem. Anyone else seeing this?
Brett

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:3/30/2005 2:49:43 AM

"Anyone else seeing this?"

From my understanding most everyone using a UAD-1 with Sony software. You can read some details about this Here.

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: pwppch

Date:3/30/2005 7:16:40 AM

Could you describe exactly how to reproduce this CPU munching when using VSTs in ACID. The simplest case would be welcome.

Peter

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: bgc

Date:3/30/2005 1:29:33 PM

Hi Peter,
Sure thing.
First, I created 8 tracks in Acid and put two different UAD-1 plugins on each track as track effects in a chain. For example, track 1 had a Fairchild and LA2A, track 2 had a Pultec and a Precision EQ, etc. (I essentially picked from the list of common UAD effects: LA2A, 1176, Pultec, Fairchild, PEQ, PL, etc.)

I did this with 8 tracks to get the UAD-1 card total load to about 75% (I have two cards). The plugins were loaded using their default presets.

I did this two times (created two separate projects): one with all DX plugins and one with all VST plugins.

When I played back the DX version I got a major hit to the host CPU as expected(84%) which I could reduce to 7% by disabling and enabling the UAD-1 plugins using the UAD-1 performance meter during playback.

When I played back the VST project, I still got a major, though reduced hit to the host CPU (79%). By doing the disable/enable with the UAD-1 perf meter during playback the CPU load was reduced to less than 10%, as you would expect.

Let me know if you'd like more details.

Brett

Acid 5a
WInXP
Card Deluxe ASIO drivers / 100msec setting
1GB RAM
AMD Athlon 64 processor

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: H2000

Date:3/30/2005 1:51:41 PM

I have done alot of experimenting with the UADs and ACID and Vegas. One thing that I seem to notice is that the Pultec seems to be a culprit (maybe not be the only culprit). I had a thought that maybe it had something to do with the upsampling that the Pultec does.

Brett, I was wondering if, using the experiment you just tried, you could replace all the Pultecs with something else and test it again.

I usually see the munching start to occur when I approach about 60% of my card's power. But, I have to say that it is a case by case basis. I have had success running up to 75% power and above in Acid and Vegas using different combinations of buffers, drivers, etc. This may be deceiving however - just because it's not crashing the system doesn't mean it's not munching native CPU cycles.

I had a lengthy back and forth emailing with Tom Freeman of UA. He swears he cannot see the problem in his testing. And, he swears there are Vegas users not experiencing the problem. I find this extremely hard to believe, after having read in this forum and the UAD forum about these issues. Never once did anybody pop in to say that they never have any of these problems, or that they solved these problems. Tom eventually just said he would have to hand it over to his techs to do more testing. That was a while ago.

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: bgc

Date:3/30/2005 3:37:14 PM

I'll give the tests a try without the Pultec (and Possibly the PEQ which may be upsampling at well) to see if there are any changes regarding this.
Good idea H.
B.

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: pwppch

Date:3/30/2005 4:50:09 PM

Thanks bgc and H2000.

I am reviewing this, and will communicate what I can find.

bgc: Could you fill our your system specs please.

Peter

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: H2000

Date:3/30/2005 6:34:16 PM

I'm looking forward to understanding this a little more myself. I simply don't have enough time to do all the required testing. I generally work around any problems and move on.

Here is another useful bit of information: I find that the CPU munching is due to the initial enabling (or opening) of the plugins on PLAY. This is typical of all plugins (I think) to show a small CPU hit when they are first enabled. The problem is, that under the load conditions mentioned above (60% UAD power) the native CPU does not appear to retreat to it's normal operating level after the initial enable.

For those who are having this problem, I have found that it can help to automate the enable of the UAD FX such that they don't all start at once. Stagger the enables, even if it means pushing all the tracks in the project a little further out the timeline. Unfortunately, the 1176LN doesn't have an enable to automate, so it can't be done with this one.

Hope this helps! I really love the UAD-1 and would love to use more of it!

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: bgc

Date:3/31/2005 12:12:42 AM

Hi Peter,
Please let me know what other information you'd like.
I have some UA information for you I just received, where can I email it to you?
Brett

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: billybk

Date:4/2/2005 8:26:56 AM

Card Deluxe ASIO drivers / 100msec setting

Hey Brett,
Is there a reason why you are using such a large buffer (100ms)setting? The UAD-1 usually performs much better and is more stable and responsive @ low latency (23.2msec/1024 sample buffer or less) settings. I usually set my Delta's ASIO drivers @ 1024 (23.2msec) when using and mixing UAD-1 plugins, in ACID Pro 5.


Billy Buck

Subject:RE: UAD-1 CPU Munching

Reply by: billybk

Date:4/2/2005 8:49:09 AM

For me, unless, I am using a boatload, of UAD-1 plugins (12 or more with (2) UAD-1 cards), the native CPU munching has been pretty much tamed, using the VST versions, as compared, to using the DX versions, in Vegas 5 & ACID Pro 4. I had some problems using the DX versions, in A5, but quite frankly, with the VST versions working so well, I just stopped using the DX versions, in my A5 projects.
I have a 16/44, (34) track ACID Pro 5 project, with (8) UAD-1 plugins (51% DSP on both cards, using mostly the premium plugs, Precision Limiter, Fairchild 670, Pultec, Plate 140, RealVerb Pro, Cambridge EQ, etc...used mostly on the master & aux buses), and the native CPU barely moves, well maybe a few extra %. But nothing compared to Vegas 5 or ACID 4, using the DX versions. I would already be getting massive native CPU munching with a similar project.
Has the native CPU munching been completely irradicated? No, not when you are using a lot of UAD-1 plugins. I have some projects with 12-16 UAD-1 plugins (80%-90% DSP on both cards) and I do see some moderate CPU munching. But, nothing like I was getting in previous Vegas and ACID versions using the DX plugins, when I would always get massive native CPU munching, in each and every project, after I used more than just a few plugins.
Overall, I am quite pleased with the improved UAD-1 performance, compared to what it used to be. I still get some moderate native CPU munching when using a lot of UAD-1 plugins (usually 10 or more). But, it is not as frequent nor as severe, as in previous versions. Other than that, the UAD-1 has been working fine in ACID Pro 5, using the VST versions. Just like using any other native DX/VST plugin.


Billy Buck