Subject:SF8 Issues

Posted by: sean@oregonsound.com

Date:3/24/2005 12:06:45 PM

After upgrading from SF6, I've been using SF8 this week and have the following issues, all of which are specific to SF8: No playback of CD tracks from my Pioneer FW drive; audio playback glitches when clicking on markers; the Play as Cutlist doesn't work; Plugin Chains are very slow to load; and most bizarre, while recording there is some sort of severe limiting going on that brickwalls my recorded files at -6 dB! To reiterate, none of these problems exist in SF6 on the same system.

Any light that can be shed on these problems would be welcome. Thanks.

Followup: The limiting issue was related to input selection. When recording a mono file, if 1 + 2 is selected as the source, SF8 applies the -6dB limiting. I suppose there's some logic to this, but I'm not clear on what it is.

Subject:RE: SF8 Issues - bizzare -6db wall

Reply by: Andreas S.

Date:3/24/2005 1:10:59 PM

I'm having the same -6db wall problem. Can you clarify the 1+2 as selected source? I'm recording mono and have the wall limit...I haven't actually tried recording in stereo with just once source because, frankly, there's no reason to. Recording for broadcast I prefer the smaller mono files. Plus it eliminates phase issues down the road. I'm trying to imagine the logic behind the limit, but since it's a false limit and reports the waveform improperly (re: 0 is no longer 0) there isn't any. In nearly 20 years of recording and producing audio for broadcast, I haven't once needed it. It has to be a bug since SF7b behaves in the expected (re: 0db *IS* 0db) manner.

I'm also having some frustrations with markers (the [ and ] don't work, but I and O do for marking in/out sections of a region).

I've gone back to SF7b until these issues are resolved since it's the last stable release.

Subject:RE: SF8 Issues - bizzare -6db wall

Reply by: sean@oregonsound.com

Date:3/24/2005 1:27:16 PM

If you're recording a mono file from a mono source, you need to specify the one side of the sound card's stereo pair that is being used. I noticed the Left and Right options in the SF8 record setup, but didn't think anything of it.

I suppose the program is trying to protect against clipping by dropping a stereo signal by 6 dB when summing it to a mono file, but when, for example, I've recorded mono files from DAT (which is always stereo) in SF6, I've never had a problem. I'm not sure what has changed in SF8 or why.

Subject:RE: SF8 Issues - bizzare -6db wall

Reply by: Andreas S.

Date:3/24/2005 1:43:25 PM

It's a really strange problem. SF7 doesn't do it, and frankly, while selecting the side/channel you're recording from is more "by the book"...I liked the fact that every previous version forgave me and just recorded and summed whatever was being input.

What I'm experiencing is actually more than just a supression. The levels are basically the same, except whatever WAS 0db is now -6db...losing -6db of ceiling on the processing end. I haven't experienced any addition noise (so far in quick testing - I just did some simple vocal work, got frustrated, and after some testing, went back to SF7).

Is it just me, or was SF8 just not quite ready for prime time? The batch converter (which is great when producing large volumes of similar cuts (ie: donut spots, stingers, bumpers etc, that need the same processing) is just painfully slow. I've gone back to Batch Converter 5. In SF8, each file is opened and processed. Why not just read the file and process.

I could go on with some of the annoyances, but when a new out-of-the-box program causes me to a) recalibrate my studio, or b) move to a previous version, I have to question why I upgraded in the first place. SF7 had some annoyances which were, for the most part, ironed out in in SF7b, but it was a marginal upgrade on the last version of 6.

I'm going to download a demo of Adobe Audition 1.5 and see what it can do. They have a competetive upgrade so it might not be terribly expensive.While I'm not fond of the idea of switching because of setup, and workflow changes etc, this is getting to be a repetitive STRESS injury which is putting a STRAIN on my patience.

Subject:RE: SF8 Issues - bizzare -6db wall

Reply by: sirshambling

Date:3/25/2005 12:30:50 AM

I tried SF8 (and bought an upgrade) in the usual excitement for new features (esp the updated Batch Convertor), a more robust product etc etc.

There seem to be a lot of bugs and the Record function which I use for a good 3/4 hours a day is nothing like as good as SF7 IMHO - quite apart from the strange default settings which Sonic have said will be adjusted in the next release.

I think that I've wasted my $99 as I've gone back to SF7 for my daily requirements. I'm going to wait for the first bug fix before jumping ship from Sound Forge. That would be a wrench as I've faithfully followed it from SF4 - but this release has just about done it for me.

Let us know how you get on with Adobe Audition.

John.

Subject:RE: SF8 Issues - bizzare -6db wall

Reply by: PeterXI

Date:3/26/2005 8:56:08 PM

I really do not think you wasted your money, Sir Shambling. Granted version 1.0 is buggy but my experience with Sonic Foundry/Sony is the bugs get fixed quickly and a new release will be forthcoming very soon.

Version 6 was fine for what I do and I didn't really need to upgrade to 7 but when I read that 8 will eliminate the need to chop up files in Vegas (cut out all the bad takes for VOs) I didn't hesitate to plunk down the 99$ which isn Canada is about half the price of a box of mediocre Habanos cigars.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF8 Issues - bizzare -6db wall

Reply by: drbam

Date:3/27/2005 6:59:07 AM

>>Granted version 1.0 is buggy but my experience with Sonic Foundry/Sony is the bugs get fixed quickly and a new release will be forthcoming very soon.<<

Well you and I must be living on different planets! I have owned just about every version of Vegas, Acid & Sound Forge, and especially over the last couple of years, bugs have NOT been "fixed quickly." Even a cursory review and search of any of the forums will easily confirm this. But maybe "quickly" is a subjective experience so if you're happy with things as they are, then thats really all that matters. Personally I take advantage of the early upgrade discount and follow the forums till it looks like it might be "relatively safe" to install the latest version without feeling like I'm being used as a beta tester. Over the past couple of years or so, this has taken months for each new release. From the looks of the SF8 bug reports, its going to be quite a while before I'd even consider an install and I'm going to continue with SF7 till as long as these kinds of reports are still hitting the forum. I'm trying to take a philosophical approach with these purchases now: meaning that its simply a gamble whether I'll be able to effectively use the product. The only question I have to ask myself is whether I'm willing to put down a $100 to $150 wager on attractive upgrade features that I _may_ be able to implement into my workflow at some point. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose.

drbam

Subject:RE: SF8 Issues - bizzare -6db wall

Reply by: PeterXI

Date:3/27/2005 10:15:41 PM

Guess we are living on differnet planets mate. Started with Vegas Pro, SF 4.5 and ACID 1.0. Used all for posting audio for video, never so buggy they were unusable. Must be some of us Canadians have lower standards. However, enough people are posting about bugs to keep me using version 7 for recording. Maybe I can see what this -6 dB is all about later this week.

Peter

Subject:Adobe Audition

Reply by: PeterXI

Date:3/27/2005 10:19:34 PM

re: "I'm going to download a demo of Adobe Audition 1.5 and see what it can do. They have a competetive upgrade so it might not be terribly expensive..."

I'll sell you my Audition software and License real cheap...contact me off line: psburn@shaw.ca.

Peter