Subject:44.1 or 48 kHz ? 16 or 24 bits ?

Posted by: Djipy

Date:3/13/2005 5:31:02 AM

Well, I have searched this forum for a question about sampling resolution but I could not find any clear answer.

Inside a project, I've got many MIDI files, either played by a VSTi or soundfonts samples.
I plan to render each track to wave format before the final mix in Acid.

I hesitate between 2 solutions :

1) Create 44.1 kHz/16 bits loops and mix at 48 kHz/24 bits ?
2) Create 48 kHz/24 bits loops and mix at 48 kHz/24 bits ?

In other words, is there a better sound quality when mixing at a higher resolution than 44.1 kHz/16 bits ?

The final media will be a standard audio CD.

Thanks in advance for your advices.

Subject:RE: 44.1 or 48 kHz ? 16 or 24 bits ?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:3/13/2005 6:52:16 AM

> In other words, is there a better sound quality when mixing at a higher resolution than 44.1 kHz/16 bits ?

Yes. Do all of your work at 48kHz/24-bit and dither to 16-bit as the last stage in your mastering step. It’s always better to work at the higher resolution. This will more truly represent the sounds of the soft synths.

~jr

Subject:RE: 44.1 or 48 kHz ? 16 or 24 bits ?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:3/13/2005 8:03:12 AM

Not always. Depends on how you work and the softsynths being used.

Same rules for the loop media you are working with apply in general. If all of your loops are 44.1, then ACID has to resample everything on the fly.

This weakest link in the chain applies for softsynths as well.

For example :
If you are using a sampler that is working with 44.1/16 kHz sample library, then the sampler has to resample the original samples. Depending on the resampling algorithm used this could make the end results worse.

For softsynths that are not sample based, to say "truely represents the sounds of the softsynths" doesn't really mean anything. The softsynth that is not sample based uses "math" to generate its sound from nothing. So to say that 48 is better than 44 is subjective to how well the softsynth does its math. What does a higher sample rate provide? A higher nyquist. Even a very complex softsynth is probably doing something to limit the frequencies it generates to be more efficient. Depends on the softsynth.

Bit depth improves dynamic range. Since all VSTis generate using floating point, this is a non-factor.

In the end, when you render to a CD or a file in ACID, the whole signal chain is run at 44.1 or what ever the sample rate/bit depth you choose to render the file at. That is, the sample rate you are working/editing in has nothing to do with the final rendering. Rendering at 44.1 is the same as if you set your project sample rate to 44.1.

If you render to 48/24 then "master" that file in Sound Forge or CD Architect, then you need to be concerned about sample rate changes and dither.

Peter

Subject:RE: 44.1 or 48 kHz ? 16 or 24 bits ?

Reply by: coolout

Date:3/13/2005 6:43:54 PM

i'm curious about this.

in the past (using acid 3 & 4) i just did all my projects using 16-bit/44khz.

i tried to more or less limit the frequency spectrum in subtle ways to give everything a intimate feel. i used tube pre-amps and compressors when tracking vocals and percussion, miked every thing as dead and upfront as possible.

while mixing i used EQs and filters in a subtractive manner, added virtual tube saturation and used a lot of vintage sounding UAD plugs like the LA-2A, 1176, pultec and sometimes even mixed vinyl record static faintly into the background. i really enjoyed how "kinda dirty but not quite low-fi" my project sounded.

when i bought acid 5 i figured i make the jump to 24bit and also change my approach to mixing on my next project. i'm also a DJ so wanted to see if i could make recordings that sounded as clean, punchy, and well...just as BIG as the tunes i play in the club. needless to say, i have to kinda "reinvent the wheel" so to speak.

one thing is for certain for some reason my terratec soundcard will only record at 24-bit using asio drivers not the sound mapper. my asio latency is set alot lower than sound mapper and combined with now working at 24-bit my CPU usage has gone through the roof.

i'm saying all this to pose this question...

i'm using 16-bit loops and adding vst synths, vocals, and some external instruments. is it really worth the extra CPU overhead to do the project in 24-bit?

i'll probably have to upgrade my CPU just to mix comfortably. i'm running 1.8ghz/400mhz P4. i can throw in a 2.66 or 2.8ghz/533mhz P4 for $150-175. how much difference will the increased clock and bus speed make? or should i just save my money, go back to 16-bit, and say screw it?

Subject:RE: 44.1 or 48 kHz ? 16 or 24 bits ?

Reply by: Jeff Smith

Date:3/14/2005 7:13:06 AM

I have a P4 2.8GHz, 2GB RAM, M-Audio delta 0048 drivers. I use 384 buffer with around 8-10 ms latency with asio drivers, 44.1kHz, 24bit project. What bufer sizes are most using?

I was getting stuttering in Acid with lower latency settings.

Jeff

Subject:RE: 44.1 or 48 kHz ? 16 or 24 bits ?

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:3/14/2005 9:52:26 AM

Mine is set to 512 samples. (Echo MiaMIDI as soundcard with ASIO; see my profile for the rest of my specs.)

I use 44.1 kHz, 24-bit. I use 44.1 kHz mainly because when I record guitar, I record via my guitar processor's S/PDIF out. When you slave a sound card to a device via S/PDIF, the sound card has to match whatever sample rate the device is capable of for accurate digital transfer or mismatches could occur. (My guitar processor also produces 24-bit audio.)

I can get pretty busy with my setup but that may be because I have nothing running in the background while using ACID (other than other apps such as Sound Forge). Since I have a hardware firewall and I'm networked with another computer, I can offload such tasks as virus scanning to another system.

Iacobus
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