Now lets hope that digital video does to the movie industry what digital audio has done to the Hit Factory.

My thoughts exactly. However, it does signal the end of a very significant history.

I read this in the NYC papers on Friday and was going to post it but forgot to.

It's where Born in the USA and Songs in the Key of Life were recorded and where John Lennon spent the last day of his life.

In 1994 records that were recorded/mixed there recieved 41 Grammy nominations

NY Daily News article
NY Newsday article

"Songs in the Key of Life"

Brilliant. One of my two or three favorite albums.

I remember the 45 that came with the two record set titled "All Day Sucker".

- Mark

That will only happen when everyone can do movies at the quality of "Sky Captain" in their homes. As long as people need toget paid for everything that's used in a movie (props, actors, camera's etc) there will always be studios (after all, you can't turn a garage into the bottom of the pacific... as of now)

Maybe a basement in an area without good drainage though...

With computer software you can go to the bottom of the Pacific or to the rings of Saturn.

Who needs cameras?

I don't understand the desire for the collapse of the movie industry. All of my life, the best entertainment has come from hollywood. Like any industry, they have had some crap, but I bet there is a lot more crap being done on home computers than in hollywood.

I think the collapse of recording studios, or any entertainment industry is bad. The only way music and film gets distributed is with money. And with the demise of large industry, there is far less money.

The internet is beginning to be an outlet, but it still does not reach the majority of people.

I think we should mourn the closing of this facility, not celebrate.

Dave T2

Video games are now outselling Hollywood.

People want to be involved in their entertainment and participate (create)

Programs like Acid have turned listeners into "musicians". It is far more rewarding to create music than to listen to it.

Yamaha has come out with "singers" so you can add vocals to your music without being able to sing.

If you want to sing the software can correct your off-key mistakes and turn your music into something professional-sounding.

There were childrens books where you selected different paths with different endings to win the game.

There are games which follow the same technique.

There will be movies than allow you to participate and "create" your own movie.

Software will allow for all these future possibilities.

The sooner Hollywood collapses with all of its crushingly predictable and formula-ridden rubbish, the better for everyone.

The vast bulk of Hollwood's output is as narrow and stylised as some sort of state-controlled propaganda department.

Watched any foreign films lately ? What a joy. It's only with European or Japanese or some HK productions that I feel I can't predict the plot or immediately categorise the cast. Speaking of cast, what about Hollywood actors ? When you know how to recognise various plastic surgery "enhancements" and implants then its like watching a parade of mutilated zombies. yech !

For the sake of global culture: Burn Hollywood, burn.

It's a nice sentiment, but as long as the American public continues to go see, and later buy "Hollywood rubbish" it will continue to exist. As long as foreign countries import "Hollywood rubbish," it will continue to exist.
It may not be intellectually challenging, but it IS entertaining, and that's what people want; escape from daily life. They don't want to be thinking all the time.
How on earth did Ashlee Simpson get to be a superstar? The American (and world) public bought into her.

I'm not sure why all the hue and cry for Hollywood's demise exists, simply because it's Hollywood that supports the infrastructure that allows many of us to do what we do.
It's trickle down economics. Paramount spends 100M on "Italian Job" and makes that back double once the DVD hits shelves. After everything is paid out, they still have enough profit to go to Sundance Film Fest to buy rights to "Hustle and Flow" for 9M, taking a chance on it. They'll distribute it, and maybe make 50M at the box, and then share in the DVD sales as well due to their distribution channels. They also invested 6M in 3 other Sundance indies. That supports a lot of people, a lot of product, and a lot of creativity.
Tom Dowd once said (at the Hit Factory no less) that "Every time I make a hit record, the record company goes looking for 10 more bands just like the hit band." Well....Tom Dowd produced enough hit records that when the aggregate sales were totaled after he died last year, it was enough to RETIRE THE NATIONAL DEBT! You don't have to like Hollywood, but recognize that it's the shark that the rest of us are parasites and remoras to. Hollywood and it's accompanying film industry are a money machine. Nothing more, nothing less. It's what entertains the people while also providing a tremendous amount of support for the arts at all levels. No one, or no one who is real, in Hollywood thinks they're making great social statements very often. They know they make fluff. Mostly. but I for one, am grateful for that fluff. It's allowed me to have my career in many ways, and it's allowed many people in this forum, to have access to distribution, equipment, and education that we might not otherwise enjoy. We need the infrastructure that the music industry and Hollywood provide, whether we appreciate it or not. I know I often don't.
In another thread I made the comment that even rocks aspire to be more. While many begrudge Hollywood, most everyone in here would give their right arm to work as part of a major Hollywood production, and even more would give both arms to have a Hollywood hit to their credit. Some of you have posted "I could have done that, I woulda done it better. This film sucked or that film sucked...." But you know what? That film or this film went on to be huge, and made a lot of money. And allowed the producers and directors to do their next thing. The kid that produced "Napoleon Dynamite" is a small town kid from BYU who had the same dreams everyone here has. Hollywood allowed his dream to come true. It would have just been another B film, if Hollywood hadn't gone to Sundance to see it. Same with "Open Water, and Dirty Love, Blair Witch, One Hour Photo, Sex, Lies and Videotape," and many others.


I don't see the value in reveling over the loss of one of the industry's most historic landmarks, nor the value in the cry for the failure or burning of Hollywood.
If nothing else, I have several very fond memories of recording at the Hit Factory, and will miss that place and the people who have run it since 1976.

then you're not shooting people anymore & you don't need us. :( That bad thing.

I was gonna say the same thing: People want "crap" so that's what people get (personely, I enjoy a Jackie Chan, Steven Segal, Arnold, etc. blow-the-crap-out-of-everything-there-is movie. It's great fun!)

And neanderthal mentions games... games are going the same way. Plus you mentioned you can create your own content. That's on computer games only, which sell a fraction of console games, which sell more then the movie industry (and even a a great selling game [such as half life 2] brought in an estimated $187m, that's only one game. It's not like the movie industry where they have 1 big hit & 6-7 movies that do 1/2 as well, this is one game. Plus it took 6 years to develope & had at least a $40m budget)

"The sooner Hollywood collapses with all of its crushingly predictable and formula-ridden rubbish, the better for everyone."

Ok everyone, time to dust off "Easy Riders, Raging Bulls" and read it again...

History is a wheel... different reasons but same situations

Spot, the fact that Hollywood provides a lot of employment is nice, but hardly a justification for producing third-rate pap. And I dispute that a majority would "give their right arm" to work there.

In fact my brother is a film producer and he now actively avoids Hollywood jobs because of the lowest-common-denominator mentality.

Example:

In his Hollywood days he worked on a well known sci-fi movie and as second-unit producer with a lot of leeway he oversaw some "hard sci fi" into the movie (ie "real" sci fi concepts rather than space opera).

Well, as is their usual practice, the first cut was preview to a few mid-western teenage crowds and the words came bacK; "the mobie is too complex; people can't understand the concepts; we need a more upbeat ending; this character must be more obviously characterised" etc etc

In another movie he created a whole lab scene which was scientifically accurate - real equipment, real macro circuits of electrical gear etc. But it was ripped apart and replaced with glass beakers of bubbling green stuff because that looked better. Again, people with some brains would have seen that lab and been impressed, but again the "comic book" concept won out.

You'll also note how few words there are in most modern movies. That's indicative of their low-brow action-centred nature, and pursuit of "comic book" simplicity. And when there are words notice how slowly people speak. Compare that to the ultra fast wit of the 1930s.

It's terribly sad how the assumed level of audience intelligence has plummeted.

So, appealing to the lowest level might bring wide popularity, it may bring commercial success, but let's not demean ourseleves by pretending that stuff targeted at morons is actually desireable !

Spot,

I will ride on your coattails, since you are more eloquent than I am in the your explanation.

It is easy to say that everything Hollywood does sucks, but it isn't true. As I think we all know.

I don't want to be in my own movie, or always listen to my own music. Where is the growth in that, unless you are overly talented.

I enjoy music of other people and I could never make a movie like 2001 Space Odysey, or Star Wars. Only money and talent (which is attracted by money) could create at that level.

I don't want to spend money to see a bunch of low budget indie films with actors that I don't know. I am sorry (well maybe not sorry), but I want to be entertained.

Dave T2

I don't think it necessarily appeals to the lowest level. Films that Steven Seagal makes, Bruce Willis, Eddie Murphey, Mel Gibson, Sandra Bullock....they're made for one purpose; entertainment. Period. Escapism. I don't enjoy highbrow films very often. Discovery Channel learned recently that people demand entertainment while being fed good information. They've busted the door down on entertainment with good information. Now they're spending more on the entertainment than on the info.
There is a place for good information. There is a place for accurate information. There is a place for high brow, social conscious films. Hollywood ain't that place. It never claimed to be. People go to movies to ESCAPE real life. It's one of the reasons we still like 24p; it feels surrealistic. No one wants to see real life. They want to see bigger, better, badder, more explosive, more non-realistic.
I've scored many segments of the very films you likely hate. And I've appreciated the work. And I know the people I've worked with appreciated the work. Was I embarassed because "Last Samurai" wasn't historically accurate? No. Was I bothered that "Dances With Wolves" used the wrong language in context? No. Did it bug me that Steve Odekirk used my music very disrespectfully in "Kung Pao?" Nope. Because it's all entertainment. Movies that attempt to *say* they're accurate when they obviously aren't, really bother me. I was indeed embarassed to have worked on "Hidalgo" when they originally presented it as a "true" story that was later to be shown as a very broad interpretation of a very liberal view of the journals. But it was still entertaining, and I was honored to be part at the screening.
If every movie is supposed to make a social statement, I assert fewer people would go see movies. They don't care about social statements for the most part. As far as speed of speech compared with the wit of the 30's, people are more stupid socially today than they were back then. All the great snappy lines have been delivered, and we've all heard them. So anything said today is cliche' and used. Further, we're a substantially different culture today. For pete's sake, we've gotten so politically correct it's virtually impossible to say or do anything without offending someone. Even last week a company in Chicago had to quit selling Valentine Bears in straightjackets screened with "I'm Crazy For You!" on them because it offended mental health workers. You have Trekkies running around speaking Klingon! Hollywood allows and encourages people to step out of reality.
It's all entertainment, and that's what Hollywood has, and always will stand for. Regardless of the quality.
Either way, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I might not like much of what comes to the silver screen, but I support it's existence wholeheartedly.

Spot, I hope you will see the light-hearted side of my comment when I say that debating this topic with you is like trying to win an argument against the Borg ! You are obviously part of the hive mind already.... ;-)

must watch Arnold

must watch Arnold

must watch Arnold
He'll be back.....

Seriously though, I LOVE Sundance, I LOVE the Santa Monica film fest, I very much enjoyed Cannes the one year I got to go. I enjoy some art films, I very much enjoy documentaries. My first docco I ever worked on was "the Civil War" with Ric and Ken Burns. I learned to love the art of doccos, and that's what got me started in them. I enjoy some of the foreign films too, but when I want escape.... it's either gonna have to be really good drugs (which I don't do) or my basement where I've got...
12' screen
XGA projector
7.1 surround w 18Mackie sub 900 watts
Buttkickers installed on couch (2) loveseat (2) and 2 overstuff chairs (1 each) and I LOVE to watch mindless, meaningless shows like BadBoyz or SWAT where every bomb sets off a rumble beneath my butt and the bullets flying are all over the room. Knights Tale is another fave even though it's incredibly fantasy-minded. Shrek is another fave. I watch these to relax, not to think more, at the end of a long day. Some folks like wines, some like flowers. I like movies. I've got over 2000 DVDs in my home, ranging from American Chopper to National Geographic to Shrek to Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Of course, loads of action flicks, some are very forgettable, but then there are the films like "Patriot," "October Sky,""Men of Honor" or "A River Runs Through It" that are very memorable. That's my escapism.

must watch Arnold
must watch Arnold
must watch Arnold

he he, some system you've got there.

But how different we are - I can only watch a few minutes of action movie stuff before I get really bored and start looking around the room wondering what else I can do. Either that or I get depressed that people find it amusing to watch other people die - even if it is "comic book" style.

Perhaps our different desires here represent a shift from movies activating the mostly verbal-based imagination, to activating the "senses" such as sub-bass audio, flashy on-screen effects, big screens, surround audio etc.

I can imagine a future where there are two different "streams" of movies; one based on sensory experience, the other on more traditional story-telling "narration of events".

Sort of like the difference between riding a roller coaster and reading a book.

And otherwise, I'd rather read a book. Iv'e got more books than DVDs. That's my other pasttime. it's not the dying, believe me, I'd rather not see that for very personal reasons. but the excitement, the craft of the way the movie is built, that's all important to me. I like any film that is done well in the audio department. I don't like the Bloodsport movie types, because not only are they bad stories, they have horrible audio. But take "The Patriot," there is a great story, semi-true, and while people die, that's not the thrust. And the audio is incredibly inspirational. Same with Titanic, Pearl Harbor, even School of Rock. I read enough on airplanes and in bed. Anyone who knows me will tell you I go nowhere without 3 things; books, personal stereo, and my laptop. I work pretty hard, so I guess I relax hard too.

Wow Spot - awesome.

I just wanted to add that you know, the whole thing about words that neanderthal mentioned before your post - I really disagree with that. There is an expression when one works on a film where the director is trying hard to make a demo reel rather than a film - radio with pictures. It is where, normally a first time director, sits down and trys to shoot all these intense dialog driven scenes. Now I am not saying that all films and directors fall into this category however not every single film made is a dialog driven film...nor should it be. But to me the most overlooked fact about film making anymore is that it is a visual medium. I dunno about anyone else but I would have loved to have worked on, or made, films like Intolerance or Birth of a Nation - two films that are truely epic and truely milestones in film, and not really full of "dialog". Same goes for Un Chein Andalou.

Being a visual medium I can fully undertstand why a good DP or good set designer might choose to go with something that "looked good" over reality. I found Woody Allens Manahtten to be just a beautiful film - and yes it had lots of dialog however the fact it was shot in Black and White was perfect to capture NYC. And I also love the visuals of The Dark Backward. Yeah Arnold only had like 15 lines in all of Terminator but see what it spawned? It was entertaining.

After September 11, 2001 you know what movie was a huge hit? Monsters, Inc.. I sat in the theatre and it was full of people - familys. And despite what was going on in lower Manhattan, despite that a few weeks earlier most of us - probably all of us - had been sitting there in stunned silence, weeping, here were were laughing - just shutting out the real horror. in my mind I have no doubt that one of the reasons that film was as huge as it was was not because anyone thought it was "real" or because it had lots of "original dialog" but because it was pure escapism that the United States needed at that point. Yes it *was* a good film, yes it did win an Oscar for sound design and yes, it was clever and witty - but at that time if also offered a whole lot more...it offered a true ESCAPE. Yeah I may sound hokey right now but I actually have tears in my eyes because I think of the pain I personally was in at that point and I think of how my daughter was so confused as to why Mommy and Daddy held her that day and slept with her, with the lights on and the TV on all night. Monsters, Inc. was her first real 'sit in a theatre' movie ever and she needed it as well - because it puts that period of her life into a happy time, not a time when Daddy would vanish to "see the firemen" in NYC or when Mommy and Daddy would break into tears for no reason - or it would seem to her to be no reason anyway. She named her first dog Boo and isn't all that afraid of monsters under the bed. Had that film not existed at that time I really not so sure what she would remember more from those months or if she would be terrified of the monsters in the closet, under her bed.

Yeah I am with Spot when he says People go to movies to ESCAPE real life. And for sure different times have warrented different films. IMO, this is one of the reasons Preston Sturges is one of my favorite directors. He just seemed to "get it' - and he managed to become cynical and also remain funny and also bite the hand that fed him at times. Sullivans Travels is classic in all ways...and somehow in the back of my mind lead me to appreciate Monsters, Inc. even more so.

A bit of dialog from the end of the film:

Hadrian: How about a nice musical?
Sullivan: How can you talk about musicals at a time like this? With the world committing suicide, with corpses piling up in the street, with grim death gargling at you from every corner, with people slaughtered like sheep!
Hadrian: Maybe they'd like to forget that.
Sullivan: Then why do they hold this one over for a fifth week at the Music Hall? For the ushers?
Hadrian: It died in Pittsburgh.
Lebrand: Like a dog.
Sullivan: What do they know in Pittsburgh?
Lebrand:They know what they like.
Sullivan: If they knew what they liked, they wouldn't live in Pittsburgh.

The top two films this weekend brought in over $30,000,000 since Friday. I don't think Hollywood is going away anytime soon.