Subject:Clipped Audio?

Posted by: forkyspoon

Date:2/3/2005 11:09:35 AM

I was wondering what clipped Audio is all about and what it is. I made a song with full blown clipped audio threw out it and I didnt know any things bad about it except for one part where there was distortion but I noticed that it was way louder with the clipped audio then with out it. Im wondering what clipped audio is.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: spiderlegs

Date:2/3/2005 11:27:00 AM

It's when the sound is louder than 0. The clip level is at 0. So, the spikes in your wave file, usually more or less triangular, flatten out at the top. That flattening out is the clip, and it produces unappealing noise, or distortion. Clipped audio sounds like shit when turned up loud. Any dynamics the song had are drowned out by the distortion. You never want a wave file to "flatten out" because then, it becomes very difficult to fix. There is a Sony Plug-in that comes with the Noise Reduction package that does a really good job, but it's not perfect. Some audio clipping just can't be fixed.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: forkyspoon

Date:2/3/2005 11:33:18 AM

I want my songs to be loud how would I do that because when i put it where it doesent clip it is not loud at all

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: spiderlegs

Date:2/3/2005 11:57:58 AM

Do you normalize your tracks before mixing them? If you do that, that will bring up the overall volume some to begin with. Don't bring them up too much, just enough that they all can be heard in the mix.

Then, Compression and Maximizing, son! You need a good plug-in. Have you had any experience with plugin effects?

Anyway, if you have the full version of Sound Forge, use the Wave Hammer effect. Experiment with different amounts of compression. It's a pretty good effect for being bundled. If you have the cash, get the Waves Bundle. It's L1 compressor is astounding for increasing volume without increasing distortion or that "compression" sound you get with too much compression.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: forkyspoon

Date:2/3/2005 12:51:22 PM

how do i compress where do i go because i dont see any thing that says compression and is maximizing just put the volume up as much as possible with out making it clip.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: forkyspoon

Date:2/3/2005 1:42:04 PM

I dont have the wave hammer thing or the noise reduction thing I paid for the full version do I have to download something from the internet to get this stuff.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: spiderlegs

Date:2/3/2005 2:11:21 PM

If you bought the full version of SoundForge, Wavehammer comes included. It is located under the effects dialog. Here's a what it looks like (click on the link):

Click here

There are two tabs(noted by the arrows): one for volume maximing, the other for compression. It comes with some presets, so I would try each preset and when you get one you like, fine tune it to get what you want.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: forkyspoon

Date:2/3/2005 2:58:01 PM

I dont know whats happening here I dont have wave hammer I have sound forge audio studio 7.0 b should i reinstall it or what. i really want to use that wave hammer.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: spiderlegs

Date:2/3/2005 4:16:16 PM

I would reinstall it then. Actually, I think in this forum there might have been a thread about someone losing the ability to use Wave Hammer after upgrading to 7.0b.

click here

click here

These aren't the exact same problem you are having, but it indicates that the 7.0b upgrade has caused some people some problems.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: mpd

Date:2/3/2005 5:35:10 PM

Wave Hammer doesn't come with SF7 Audio Studio, only the full SF7.

Personally, I shy away from Wave Hammer. Most of my final processing / mastering is done with a plugin chain that looks something like

Volume -> EQ -> Dynamics/gate -> Dynamics/compress -> Volume -> Dynamics/limit

and I switch back and forth tweaking the pluging settings in preview mode and set the final level with the aid the meters and my ears. This is similar to what WH does, but I like using the manual volume control instead of the automatic gain makeup (which I think spits out things way too hot).

However, as I look at the SF7AS features , it doesn't include the plugin-chainer...

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: forkyspoon

Date:2/4/2005 9:01:41 AM

with my version of audio studio what plug in chain do you think i should use to get the best processing i can?

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:2/4/2005 11:50:41 AM

Here, try this out. This will be one of the best things you can do with what you currently have, if you're looking for volume.

1. Select all the data in the wave editor window
2. Goto PROCESS>NORMALIZE
3. Select the Preset "Normalize RMS to -16dB (music)"
4. Turn the slider up on the left to -11dB.
5. Hit OK.
6. Listen to the music and see if this increased the volume for you enough. If it's not enough, the goto the UNDO menu to get rid of the previous normalization step. Raise the slider on the left to -10dB. Keep adjusting the slider and undoing it until you get the results you're looking for.

Make sure you start with the non clipped audio version of your song.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: spiderlegs

Date:2/4/2005 12:19:02 PM

I don't use Wave Hammer, either. But I was trying to suggest something workable for forkyspoon since he didn't have any mastering plug-ins. I have had really good results using the L1 Maximizer in the Waves bundle. Here. I'm a huge fan of those plug-ins. You can use them as VST effects in most sequencing programs and also as DX favorites in SoundForge (and I'm assuming Vegas and Acid). They're pretty pricey, but there are 6 separate compressors/limiters/maximizers/dynamics filters, 10+ different EQs (with completely different interfaces and usuable presets), and unique effects (try the Enigma filter out and see if it doesn't trip you out). I'm not shilling for them, but it's a good bundle that takes care of effects, dynamics, and mastering. It's the perfect complement to SoundForge's already exceptional features.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:2/4/2005 12:30:36 PM

The only problem with that suggestion is that he's using Sound Forge Audio, which doesn't support a pluggin chainer or DX effects. Making a purchase of a Waves bundle under those circumstances a waste of money.

BTW, I personally can't stand the sound of the Waves L1, it adds too much high frequency distortion.

Subject:RE: Clipped Audio?

Reply by: spiderlegs

Date:2/14/2005 2:40:55 PM

I'm not familiar with SF AUdio. Is that the economical version of SF? What all does it not have that SF has. The ability to use plug-in effects with SF is crucial in my opinion. But then, I wasn't even aware there was a scaled back version of SF out there. I guess there's a reason.

I've never had any problems with high frequency distortion once I learned to use the L1. At first I did, but like anything, once you figure it out, obviously it becomes easier. One of the tricks is to set the sound source as either analog or digital and adjust the IDM accordingly. There are some pretty good web tutorials out there. I think the problem people have with WAVES is that the effects are quite detailed and complicated and there really is a learning curve for the user to adjust to. I have been using WAVES since 2001 and only within the last year and a half would I say I finally get it. Most of the poor sound quality I got came from either noise at the source or inconsistent levels when recording analog, I've found, as opposed to problems with the plug-in. And I have never had any problems with my digital tracks (midi and drum maps).

I take it back: when I first started digitally recording tracks, I would use canned drum samples very often because it cut down on the amount of time it took to compose and record drum tracks. I usually got the free CDs that came with mags like FUTURE MUSIC and such (great magazine, btw). Some of those files, while sounding cool and interesting, weren't sampled very well (I think they have consistent standards for sound files on their CDs now, but I'm talking about 3 or 4 years ago). Often you'd wind up with some 22MHz files slipped in with the 44MHz when they were all supposed to be sampled at the same rate. So, screw me for being too lazy to resample most of the files, right? I found most of my highend distortion came from mostly rhythm tracks sampled funny or mixed wrong (which, again was usually my bad for not checking them).

It's all a learning curve. I can't even listen to the tracks I recorded 3 or 4 years ago when I was still learning how to record, mix and master. And I try not to do more than one of those actions in a single session. Advice I got once.