OT: HDV Investment, Just For Kicks

Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/2/2005, 3:44 PM
PREFACE: No arguing or debating, just fact finding.

As I was reading yet another "comparison" of cameras article, it dawned on me: How are those of you who own HDV cameras monitoring your video during color correction, for example? I'm not talking about computer monitors, I'm talking about external, broadcast-type monitors.

The "cheapest" monitor I found (there may be some less expensive) was the Sony BVM-D14H1U 14-Inch 16:9 Widescreen Broadcast Monitor. Problem is it's only 800 lines. The "optional" HD board is another $3,200 making the grand total $8,200.

The camera, let's jump to the top, the Sony HVR-Z1U is $4,900, so that brings the total to $13,100 (excluding shipping). Then there is CineForm Connect HD for Vegas, that's another measley $150. That makes it $13,250. So now I'm wondering what else does one need to round out the kit for shooting in and delivering HDV and what are the costs of the other necessaries?

Just planning ahead for the inevitable. Thanks!

Jay

Comments

B_JM wrote on 2/2/2005, 3:47 PM
tape, filters, tripod, cases, batteries, cables ... a few things i am guessing :)

Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/2/2005, 3:55 PM
tape, filters, tripod, cases, batteries, cables ... a few things i am guessing

No duh. That's a given! I was referring to HDV equipment.

Jay

epirb wrote on 2/2/2005, 4:04 PM
Jay,
As for me, I am using 2 things to monitor my HDV footage.
1 is the 17" widescreen LCD monitor/ with biult in NTSC tuner at my desk that is HDTV capable with component inputs. the problem is I normaly use it as one of my workspace screens(timeline). Plus its calibration ablities sre a bit limited, just the normal TV adjustments(I cal'd as best as I could with AVIA). The other way is thru my Mits. 55" widescreen TV theat has been calibrated by an ISF tech. problem is my TV is a little too far away to work with color correction. When I prewired my house during remodeling I ran 6 RG6 from my workstation area to my entertaimnent Hub.
I'm still getting used to the cam and asembling things to make a better editing workstation. I lok at it as sort of an advantage for me , seeing that I need to asssemle/build my workstation. Vs people like you and the other pro's out there who already have a set up and would have to add to what you already have. Me, if I'm gonna put together a decent set up starting from near scratch, I figure why not set up for the future. So as I go try and keep you up to date as I progress(and my wallet shrinks)
epirb wrote on 2/2/2005, 4:06 PM
One other side note I hear that Serious Ultra DV Rack is planning on a HD or HDV version.
come to think of it..........someone somewhere just said something about an NDA......hmmmmmm?.....
B_JM wrote on 2/2/2005, 4:31 PM
i know -- why the smiley face :)
Spot|DSE wrote on 2/2/2005, 5:17 PM
Don't forget the RAID, extra HD space, RAM, and hopefully faster MOBO and proc, if you're on anything slower than a 2.8, don't even attempt HD.
The Sony Luma 210S can do HD, and it's not a computer monitor.
171WS and 150S can too. All three are sub 4K. Neither has SDI, which would be nice...but not critical.
A CRT monitor is certainly the grail, but then you gotta ask yourself how many people are watching the movies on an HD CRT? So, do we color correct on a CRT or on LCD? What is the audience seeing your work on. Of course if it's corrected on a calibrated CRT, it's going to be great/fine on an LCD or Plasma...but is the CRT necessary if most viewers (say 99%) are viewing your work on a Plasma or LCD?
Good discussion point.
SonyEPM wrote on 2/2/2005, 5:46 PM
Monitoring, for sound or picture or both, needs to factor in the delivery format. One monitoring scenario (unfortunately) does not represent all end-of-day viewing experiences. If you are delivering say a Windows Media presentation on a corporate network, to be viewed most typically on 1024x768 VGA with cheap stereo computer speakers, your mastering decisions (color correction/eq/etc) would likely be quite different than they would be if you were delivering a DVD master for home/crt viewing.

The longstanding video paradigm of doing all monitoring on a reference grade CRT...this I think needs to change as viewing moves to LCD/Plasma/Other flat. Audio-only folks (this has been the case for years) may do several delivery-concious mixes- club, radio, CD- each one would have special tweaks done to optimize for a given delivery format.


PeterWright wrote on 2/2/2005, 6:50 PM
For the time being, my intention is to use the Z1 in 4:3 SD mode, and I'm assuming that this will be monitorable through existing SD monitors.
Can anyone confirm?

- and one more question - if I record in this mode using Mini DV, I'm hoping the tape will play back ok in my present Mini DV deck (Sony D1000e).
farss wrote on 2/2/2005, 6:59 PM
If you record in 4:3 DV then yes the HDV cameras are no different to say a PD170. If you record in 16:9 same as say 570, it's all just vanilla DV25.
Of course for a real performance boost one could record in HDV and downsample, preferably in Vegas to 4:2:2 SD but to monitor that properly you'd need somewhat better kit. However it's not going to look worse than what it does on you 4:2:0 monitoring setup. You'll also need faster CPU and drives but this stuff isn't that costly today.
For anyone serioulsy costing out shooting HDV for HiDef delivery I'd add in matte box, rods, filters and follow focus. If your costing out HD CRTs, allow an ongoing cost for calibration, this is one thing where LCDs outperform CRTs, they hold calibration!
Bob.
BrianStanding wrote on 2/3/2005, 10:26 AM
"Don't forget the RAID, extra HD space, RAM, and hopefully faster MOBO and proc, if you're on anything slower than a 2.8, don't even attempt HD."

I thought HDV had the same data rate as DV? Why is a souped-up MOBO/CPU or RAID needed then? Is the CPU need more or less if you use an intermediary codec?

If memory serves, 1GB = 4.7 minutes DV. What's the equivalent for HDV? Are we dealing with significantly larger files?

Sorry if these are dumb questions.....
Spot|DSE wrote on 2/3/2005, 10:44 AM
The transport stream as it comes off the camera, has the same datarate. That climbs when you use the intermediary, which you are going to want to do. Yes, the file sizes are signficantly larger, and are variable depending on the type of conversion you decide to do, but at minimum, you're double the drive space. Figure an average of 40Gb per hour.
You're going to be dealing with 4:2:2, short GOP files at a frame size of 1440 x 1080. In other words, BIG information files compared to DV.
This will work the CPU harder, the drives harder, and slow systems just won't cut it.
BrianStanding wrote on 2/3/2005, 11:15 AM
Thanks, Spot. That makes things much clearer.

I have 2 120GB ATA133 and 1 200GB ATA 133 hard drive, both 7200 RPM. I was hoping to add a second 200gb drive, stripe them with a hardware card (like a Fasttrak) and use an ol' fashioned ATA RAID.

Ya think that'll do, or am I looking at buying new SATA drives, too?
Spot|DSE wrote on 2/3/2005, 11:23 AM
That'll do it. It won't be optimal, but you'll be getting by just fine. BTW, I've expensively found out recently that optimal is costing me 10K, so...
I'm actually buying my first computer not built nor customized by me or for me.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/3/2005, 11:31 AM
Douglas, would you be willing to share with us what you're getting?

Jay
Spot|DSE wrote on 2/3/2005, 11:43 AM
A VideoForce machine from DataCorp. I've been using one for Sony's trade events, and can't edit anymore without it.
3 terrabyte RAID
Dual 3.62Xeons
4 gig RAM
Racked case
Custom Supermicro mobo with specially written bios

Available at any Guitar Center store.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/3/2005, 11:45 AM
Cool!

And all that costs only $999.95, right? ;o)

Jay
Spot|DSE wrote on 2/3/2005, 11:53 AM
You missed a 9. :-) 9999.95
farss wrote on 2/3/2005, 12:50 PM
You're probably paying big bucks for the 3.62 GHz Xeons, local systems builders told me the performance increase between 3.0GHz and 3.62GHz CPUs didn't justify the cost hike, apart from that same as my new rig. Man oh man though, is this thing heavy.
Bob.