ok what did I do to make my hyperlink wrong?

Thanks Patrick , I figured it out too......Brain fart!

I was looking at the Workprinter, using my own cam and the computer link up.

do a search of this subject, it has been discussed a couple of times. I believe that farss is very knowledgeable in this subject. Personally, we just sent it out, based on contractual bidding.

Depends on your camera. 16mm can be recorded nicely with DSR 500/570 so probably also with the DSR 150/170 etc.

Problem is the "flicker".

Now, for 24 fps 16mm all I do is aim the old Bell & Howell 16mm projector (eBay 125$) at the mirror box and record with my DSR 500. Virtually no flicker at all. No one has moaned about the flicker and I've transferred a lot of 16mm. Not much in the last few months, alas.

I do 8mm and super 8 to DVD using overpriced ancient GOKOs and a Bell & Howell. The latter shoots into the standard mirror box; both have variable speed to get around the flicker issue arising from 16/18 fps.

Avoid getting into the Super8/8mm unless you are prepared to invest in two or three ancient variable speed projectors, telecine box, splicing block leaders, splicing tabs and a dual mode editor.

Peter
(-34 today but warming up to -24 tomorrow!)

epirb,

I've just completed some silent 16mm (18 frames per second) for a customer, and the results on his 55 year old films are very good. When comparing prices, remember that the film run rate for 16mm is twice as fast as 8mm for the same frame rate. My prices are on the low end of the range you quote, and there is also a lot of variance in the pricing for DVDs.

The transfer device I use is flicker free and does not subject your film to the dangers of an old projector running a 200 - 700 watt bulb as do the simple lens and mirror box methods.

Do not attempt to project the old film without having it cleaned and lubricated first. My email is rmorris21942 at yahoo dot com if you wish further information.

RalphM

You didn't mention if this film has a sound track or not, if it does then you have to figure in some way of dealing with the audio. Doing it frame by frame is for sure the best thing for the images but doesn't yield any sound. That's not a problem, you just run it through a 16mm projector with the lamp off and record the sound and then sync that back.
The best transfer you'll get for the vision is from a wet gate telecine if the film has any scratches but expect to pay $100 / hour. For that you get the telecine and an operator. You'll probably get 40 minutes of footage per hour for a single light transfer, the more you want to optimise the telecine the less you get done per hour and hence the more it costs overall. Bear in mind you're tying up gear worth a lot of money that costs a lot to run plus labor.

Clearly this sort of cost may not be justified, you can pay someone with cheaper kit less or as you're thinking buy the gear and do it yourself.

I think you should have a GOOD look at the film yourself first before you decide. Most 16mm was well shot and well developed, the last bit matters a lot. A lot of the 8mm from around the 70s and 80s has lost one or more layers of emulsion, anything pre that seems to have been better fixed and / or rinsed and has survived much better. Also around that period Kodak were "lubricating" the film. Good idea for stopping scratches except the lubricant was organic and it made fungus grow like crazy. I'd try to pick up a 16mm viewer and go thru the film just to see what state it's in before you make any decisions, that'll also give you a chance to checkout the state of any splices.

You can clean film by hand with regular lens cleaning cloths and 90% propanol, 10% distilled water or ethanol / water. You need to give the film time to dry before winding it on. I've never lubricated film but it can help mask scratches and avoid getting more. But you should clean the lubricant off before storage. Alternatively you could have it professionaly cleaned by a number of processes, you can even get the base polished.

But as I said have a look at the state of the film before you decide to do anything.

BTW 16mm is usually 24fps, if you're in PAL just run it at 25fps, for NTSC 2:3 pulldown is used to yield 29.97fps or whatever horrid number it is. Some film that was shot for PLA TV was shot 25fps.

Bob.

Having a pro outfit do the transfer for you with the amount of film that you have probably would equal the cost of the Telecine 16 equipment. They also color correct, clean, etc. But if you have a digital or hi-8 video camera if it were me I would jump at the chance to buy more equipment. You never know who, in the future, will ask you to transfer some film to tape.

JJK

Chances are that epirb's films are Silent 16mm which ran at either 16 or 18 frames per second (doesn't really matter much as the cameras were spring wound and speed varied considerably). Silent 16 was the home movie format before 8mm was introduced in 1932, but many people continued to use the old 16mm cameras into the 60's.

The images are usually excellent as long as the film has been properly stored. I have only seen significant mold once, and that was a real mess, but most film that has been stored in reasonably temperate, dry conditions will be fine for family history and enjoyment purposes.

The big issue with most reasonably priced transfer houses is that their transfers are unattended. The term used is "best light" as I remember. That means they check a few feet of film, set the aperature, etc. and walk away.

My experience is that home movies often have extremes of exposure and many other problems. Unless otherwise instructed by the customer, I watch every foot of the transfer, and adjust for changes in brightness, color fading and color shift. By doing as much correction in-camera as possible, most of the film will not require further correction.

Thanks for the replies guys, yes they are silent films shot on an olod cinekodak model k, which I have as well. Granddad from what I remember was good photographer both still and moving pic's.
As a matter of fact I also have his 3D camera ,and many of the "slides he took with it" the 35mm film prints are quite well preserved, being pressed in between glass frames and the edges taped.Have got the viewers too.
Found them in a garage,they had been sitting in for years in the Chicago weather none the less.
Anyway getting back, to the movie thing, I will send you an email Ralph regarding what I have , I did open a few of the cans and some do look like they have a little mold growing,seemed to wipe off, but I didnot want to mess with them too much. I dont know if the mold issue is something that is more common at the outer wraps of the reel or if it gets worse inside.
As of right now I have 35 400ft reels that date back to the 30's , so i'd like to get it done soon.

The thing I liked about the machine I posted the link to is that it does a frame by frame capture. But I ask again, does this look like a decent machine by as compared to what you guys use?
i did notice some of the splines on the films are damged but usually on just one side, so I figured a frame adv by frame would be best for capture.

The equipment sold by Moviestuff is very good. I have one of their units for 8mm/Super 8 transfer. The customer service is also excellent. Any of the 16mm units would provide you with a good outcome. (You'll find me under one of the testimonials for the 8mm units)

You would also need a set of 16mm film winders to allow for inspection, repair, cleaning and lubrication of the films.

The garage storage is problematic, but a large percentage of the films are going to be B&W, so that is in your favor versus color, which can take a real beating in those conditions. All of Moviestuff's units are sprocket fed so torn feed holes have to be repaired anyway. Even the old silent 16mm projectors use just the feed holes on one side. If the feed holes are really torn up, it can be run through in reverse and mirrrored/reversed in Vegas. There are some units on the market that use sprocketless drive, but I have no experience with them and I suspect they are much more expensive than Moviestuff's equipment.

Send me an email, and we can discuss an approach.

Ralph

Ralph ,
email sent, thanks!

Ralph:
That is one kool idea, running it reversed.

JJK

JJK,

Yes, wish I could claim it was an original idea.

Vegas makes it so easy, and the render time is not too bad.

Epirb,

I have a WorkPrinter (8mm and Super 8mm) and am upgrading to the Sniper in February. I don't get enough 16mm orders to justify buying one, so I send them to Roger (moviestuff). Originally, I also purchased this machine (8mm version) since it transferred "frame by frame" and I wanted to edit my family's film myself. I have been very pleased with the quality and so have all of my customers.

If you buy a 16mm workprinter, let me know, especially if you are in Southern California ... that way I would have a second contact in addition to Moviestuff.
colleen
dvdeviations-at-sbcglobal-dot-net

I also have the work printer. I've used it only for personal projects (haven't made any money with it) but I'm very impressed with the quality of the transfer I'm able to achieve.

Good Luck,

John.

Collen,

I also have a Workprinter and do it on the side. How do you handle sound 8mm? Do you even get requests?

Thanks

Jason

Jason,

Let me butt in here. Super 8 sound is pretty rare. I spoke with a local video company and they said it was less than 3% of their business. The only sound reel I've ever gotten turned out to be a reel purchased by mistake and shot in a silent super 8 camera. I was hot to try the capture, but there was no sound on it.

I have some old variable speed Super8 sound projectors that I can use if the situation arises. I had thought that one could capture video on a Workprinter or Cinemate, capture the sound on an old sound projector, then marry the two in Vegas.

Roger Evans at Moviestuff says that probably won't work satisfactorily, and I respect Roger's opinions. I do have an old reel of Super 8 sound that I bought to check out the sound projectors. Maybe if things slow down I'll try the split capture routine.