Movie Studio+DVD encode/bitrate question.

PhilBiker wrote on 1/7/2005, 5:04 PM
Please excuse this question as I'm a newbie to Movie Maker+DVD but not to home computer DVD making in general.

I'm making a DVD, the original content is all in DV format from a Pyro A/V link box.

Part 1 is to make my movie in Movie Maker with all the titles, transitions, cuts, etc. etc. etc. Part 2 is to author the DVD in DVD Architect Studio.

For Part 1 I create a file using the "Make DVD" option to make a DVD ready MPG2/WAV stream. Fine, that's OK by me. However, it appears that I can not change the bitrate on the initial render out of Movie Maker. I can only change the bitrate in DVD Architect, which will result in a complete re-render of the movie for the resulting DVD.

This process makes no sense to me. I've searched here on this forum and read quite a bit (thanks everyone!) and it appears that this is the case. My other option is to render the whole movie in DV, then use the DV in DVD-Architect as my video stream.

Am I missing something? Why would Movie Studio not have the ability to adjust the bitrate? That makes no sense to me.

So what should I do, will I lose any quality by rendering to MPG2 from Movie Studio then rendering again to higher compression MPG2 in DVD Architect Studio to allow for more time per disc? Should I render to DV then render to MPG2 in DVD-Architect?

Thanks everyone!

Comments

gogiants wrote on 1/7/2005, 5:29 PM
You're not missing anything!

You will lose quality by re-rendering to a higher MPEG-2 bit rate. Whether or not most folks would notice is debatable, but if your goal is to get the best quality then, as you say, you'll want to render to DV AVI in Movie Studio and then use DVD Architect Studio to render to MPEG-2 at a hgh bit rate. (Use the "File -> Optimize DVD" screens if you haven't found them yet.)
PhilBiker wrote on 1/7/2005, 7:09 PM
But will I lose quality re-rendering the DVD formatted MPG to a -lower- bit rate from the MPG file created by Movie Maker? For example to fit more video on my disc?

I've edited my original message to make the question clearer I hope.
Svenster wrote on 1/7/2005, 7:42 PM
I'm new to MM+DVD as well as making DVDs. I'm trying to follow Phil's comments, and I don't think I have the general sense of making a DVD yet. These are the conceptal steps I see after reading the manuals (granted I have not burned a DVD yet, so I'm unsure what really happens). Capture video from cam which result in a *.avi file, load that *.avi file into MM, edit, compose or what ever. Now this is where I get lost....Is the file still an *.avi file format? If I want to create a DVD, I have to save ("render"?) to another file format, then load the new file into DVDA, create menus and the like, then save to a Mpeg 2 format, then burn to DVD. Do I end up with two files of the same stuff, but just different formats, e.g., *.avi and Mpeg2 on my hard drive. These files a so large. This seems like a lot of different file formats. I tried Pinnical Plus trial download, and it may do the same file format stuff as MM but it appears to be behind the scens, e.g., capture, edit, and burn stright to DVD all within the same program and no intermediate rendering to different file formats. What am I not understanding correctly?
PhilBiker wrote on 1/8/2005, 6:57 AM
>>> I want to create a DVD, I have to save ("render"?) to another file format, then load the new file into DVDA, create menus and the like, then save to a Mpeg 2 format, then burn to DVD. Do I end up with two files of the same stuff, but just different formats, e.g., *.avi and Mpeg2 on my hard drive.<<

That's right. And it's OK to be confused, I don't see the reason for the intermediary file either from a logical program flow perspective. Anyway, you're adding a step in your above sentence... It should be:

>>>I have to save ("render"?) to another file format, then load the new file into DVDA, create menus and the like, then MAKE A DVD IMAGE, then burn to DVD. <<<

You can make the DVD Image and burn to DVD at the same time or separately using something like Nero (which I recommend).

>>>These files a so large. This seems like a lot of different file formats. <<< It is, unnecessary steps are here, this seems to stem from the fact that the video editing and dvd authoring are two separate tools. If they were one tool it would be more unified.

>>I tried Pinnical Plus trial download, and it may do the same file format stuff as MM but it appears to be behind the scens, e.g., capture, edit, and burn stright to DVD all within the same program and no intermediate rendering to different file formats. What am I not understanding correctly?<<<<

You are understanding, but I will tell you I used Pinnacle Studio for a year and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It is the buggiest most unstable piece of software I've ever used in my life. It is awful, I strongly urge you not to go that way unless you are -extremely- patient. It does have a great rendering engine and makes good looking DVDs but you have to fight like hell to get it to work. Also, there is a Pinnacle bulletin board like this one where users help each other out. It is invaluable.
djcc wrote on 1/8/2005, 7:10 AM
@ PhilBiker:

"But will I lose quality re-rendering the DVD formatted MPG to a -lower- bit rate from the MPG file created by Movie Maker? For example to fit more video on my disc?

Render your MovieStudio output as AVI using the default DV template, then use this AVI in DVDAS. Then, adjust the bitrate as needed. This will result in only a single compression to MPEG2.
gogiants wrote on 1/8/2005, 1:46 PM
Or, put another way, it would likely lose some quality if you go down in bitrate, even though it is MPEG-2 to MPEG-2. (Beyond the loss in quality you'd get just from going to a lower bitrate.) Would you be able to really see a difference? Depends. But no doubt you'd always wonder!
PhilBiker wrote on 1/9/2005, 8:43 AM
Well, would I be able to see a difference is the key quesiton. My video device is an InFocus X1 projected on a 96" Da-Lite Model B Video Spectra screen. Quite revealing! I will make it a point to render to DV then MPG2 since my source is always DV the "render" to DV should not take very long at all out of Movie Studio.

Thanks for the help, hope I can be of assistance to others in the future.
gogiants wrote on 1/9/2005, 1:46 PM
Here's a trick I used to test which bit rates would make a difference when viewing in my setup. You can make a single DVD with the same clip encoded at different bit rates. Stick with me here, it will make sense at the end:

Find or make a 10-15 second .DV avi clip that has lots of motion and action, maybe with some moving titles thrown in for good measure. Make 5 or 6 copies of the same clip, giving each a different name.

Now open DVD Architect Studio and start a new project. Do an "insert media" for each of the 5 or 6 copies; you'll wind up with 5 or 6 different menu items, each linked to a copy of the same source material.

Now do a "File -> Optimize DVD". For each of the copied clips, choose a range of different bit rates. Make sure to choose 1 or 2 that seem ridiculously low and very high. Now when you prepare the DVD in DVD Arch Studio the same 10-15 second clip will be rendered at each of the different chosen bit rates. Burn the DVD, play it in your setup, and you can easily compare different bit rates by going back to your menu and choosing a different copy of the clip.

If you really want to get tricky you could do a blind test: Don't give a hint as to the bit rate in the menu names and then decide which one looks best/worst, or have someone else decide with you.

In my case I could go a lot lower than I thought before I noticed a difference, but of course everyone's mileage will vary.