drum machine interface -ACID Product Family - MAGIX Community Forums Archive

ACID Product Family

Subject: drum machine interface Posted by: ssgphilip Date:1/2/2005 9:09:31 PM Hello Folks, I have a new BOSS DR 670 drum machine that I am trying to interface with Acid 4.0. I am also using a midisport 2x2. I went from the MIDI out on the drum machine to the Midi In on the midisport and from the MIDI in on the drum machine to the midi out on the MIDI sport. What menu do I need to go into in Acid to interface the drum machine? Thanks
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:1/2/2005 10:22:07 PM Use Options > Preferences > Sync and set up ACID to generate MIDI Time Code (MTC) then set the drum machine to sync to MTC as a slave. If the drum machine doesn‘t support MTC then use MIDI Clock. Either way, ACID must be the Master and the drum machine must be the slave. ~jr
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: pwppch Date:1/3/2005 8:14:45 AM I would suggest trying MIDI Clock first. I am not aware of any drum machine that listens to MTC as MTC is completely non-musical and is merely a clock. That is, there would be no way to sync the drum machine and ACID 'musically. and what would be the utility of that? Peter
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/4/2005 4:04:37 PM Peter, What do you mean by UTILITY? Guys, I need help. JR, your advice always works...but, I am struggling on this one. I simply want to send the drum patterns that I create on the Boss DR 670 into acid. I connected the drum machine via the midi sport and I am getting nothing. Guys, please help!!!! You guys are great!!!
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: pwppch Date:1/4/2005 4:38:36 PM Utility in "what use would that be". I was just reviewing the manual for the 670. However, answer these question first: Do you want to record the MIDI data of your drum pattern into ACID? Do you want to record the audio output of your drum patter into ACID? Do you want your Drum machine to follow ACID dynamically? That is, do you want to keep your drum pattern in the drum machine and have ACID control it? Peter
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/4/2005 7:18:18 PM I would like to be able to have acid control the drum machine....I guess..However, I will settle for anything at this point. Thanks Peter. Phil
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: Rednroll Date:1/4/2005 7:38:36 PM Peters questions are eccential to figuring out exactly what you are trying to do. It sounds like we might have to take this in steps first though. First step let's get Acid and the drum machine synced together, so that when you hit play in Acid, your drum machine plays together with Acid. Then we can figure out where you want to go from there. Getting this first part is eccential for answering any of Peter's questions above. Step1: Sync Acid and Drum machine In Acid 1. Goto OPTIONS>PREFERENCES>MIDI 2. In the top box you should see 2 midi output ports for your 2x2 interface, check both of these boxes. 3. Click "Apply" 4. Click on the "Sync" tab 5. Goto the "Generate midi clock settings" Output device drop down box. In there you should see 2 selections, describing the ports on your midi interface. Select the one that says "Port A...or Port1" 6. Click OK 7. Goto OPTIONS>TIMECODE and select "Generate Midi Clock" At this point when you press play in Acid, a Midi clock corresponding to the master tempo in Acid will be generated from the Midi OUT 1 of your midi interface. So now make sure there is a midi chord connected from the MIDI OUT 1 of your interface and plugged into the MIDI IN of your drum machine. Disconnect the chord connected from your MIDI out of the drum machine, to the MIDI in of your midi interface......this connection is not needed at this point and may cause midi loop problems, that we don't need to trouble shoot at this point. On your Boss Drum machine 1. You will need to go into a menu item, probably called "Midi Clock" or "Midi sync". Look for something like this, and it will probably be set to "Internal". You need to change this to "External" or "Midi Clock IN". Sorry I don't remember the Boss stuff off the top of my head, so these terms may not be exact. Basically, the drum machine is set by default to it's own internal tempo clock, and you need to tell it to listen to the tempo it receives on the Midi IN port of the drum machine. 2. Hit "Play Start" on the drum machine. The drum machine should not start playing at this point, and should be in a listen type of state, waiting for midi Clock signal on the MIDI IN port. Now go back to Acid. Press Play from start in Acid. Your drum machine should start playing and playing at the master tempo in Acid. So if it's playing too fast or too slow, adjust the tempo in Acid to the correct tempo. Basically the transport buttons in Acid control your drum machine at this point. If you've gotten all this to work, congratulations!!! Now goto Peter's questions above and tell us which you'ld like to do from here and we can go onto Step 2.
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:1/4/2005 8:26:29 PM If you follow what Rednroll outlined you should be fine. I believe this is what you want to do, i.e., sync the drum machine to ACID via MIDI Clock. (my bad for suggesting MTC, I wasn’t thinking) Do everything he outlined on the ACID side. Then check out Chapter 9 in the BOSS DR-670 Users Manual on Connecting and Using External MIDI Devices. Pages 86-87 explains Synchronizing Performances with a Digital Recorder or MIDI Sequencer (Sync Mode). Since ACID will be the master MIDI Sequencer, this procedure should work for you. ~jr
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/4/2005 10:44:11 PM Thanks Rednroll and Johnny Roy for that guidance. And please forgive my ignorance. I am going to follow your guidance step by step and I will holla tomorrow. Once again, thanks for helping out an old soldier boy. Hey JR, if i buy a ticket for you, maybe you can just come down here and set up all of my stuff once and for all....Peace Phil
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: Rednroll Date:1/5/2005 6:54:36 AM I wish I had a step-by-step 9 years ago the first time I was thrown into a midi sequencing preproduction room with 12 different sound modules, 3 different controlers, 2 samplers, an Akai MPC 3000 drum machine, an 8in/8out midi interface, 1 Mac with Opcode's studio Vision sequencer and was expected to sync everything to either 2" tape, DA-88, or Adat, along with any additional keyboard or drum machine the client would walk in the door with. I think I still have nightmares today from everytime I saw someone walk through the door with an Ensonique ASR-10 in their hands. It was pretty damn intimidating and pretty frustrating figuring out how all this stuff worked. It took me a good solid month before I understood how all this midi stuff worked together, but now I love and embrace midi. I don't want anyone have to read as many owners manuals as I had when I first learned, so I'm glad to help out.
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: pwppch Date:1/5/2005 10:11:37 AM Red/Johnny: Thanks for taking the time to step this out. This should get things going for ssgphilip. Peter
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: Iacobus Date:1/5/2005 10:39:28 AM Believe I read an article where Eddie Van Halen had tried to figure out how to get a Solid State Logic board to work and actually ended up crying, so you're not alone, Red. ;) Phil: Good luck and let us know how it works out. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid Pre-order Instant ACID mD at ACIDplanet Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: Rednroll Date:1/5/2005 12:08:06 PM "Eddie Van Halen had tried to figure out how to get a Solid State Logic board to work and actually ended up crying" The funny part of that to me, is at the same studio where I first worked and learned the midi stuff, one studio was the midi preproduction room as I mentioned, and the other was the mixing studio with an SSL console. With the SSL, myself having an Electrical Engineering background I found that I had to pull the schematics out and start drawing a signal flow diagram so that I could understand all the routing options with the small faders and large faders, then from there went onto learn how to work the automation. It took me 2 months to draw that signal diagram, but I think I was the only engineer in that studio who understood the SSL when I was done. Some of the more experienced engineers who where working on mixing George Clinton's and the Insane Clown Possie's stuff at that time, would pull me from sessions a lot of times and ask me...."hey, I need to take this signal and route it here, to get to this FX unit, and I'm out of sends....how can I do that?" I'ld be like...."oh yeah, that's easy", push a couple buttons and throw in a patch cord and say, "here now use this small fader as a send, and this large fader as a stereo return and if you need to send any other tracks there, just push this "input" button of the small fader to that track, assign it to bus #1 on the routing matrix....blahh...blahh...blahh." Oh yeah, lots of the stuff I know today came from those learning experiences, I can't find much stuff that intimidates me now, but at the time I was ready to cry. Except for Steinberg's software UI that still makes me cry today. :-) It does make me laugh quite a bit though, when I see users in these forums crying that they don't have rewire and all the hoops they have to jump thru because, of it.
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/5/2005 5:05:11 PM Thanks guys, I am working on this now as we speak...I will let you guys know how I progress Phil
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/5/2005 11:17:04 PM Ok Red, it looks like I am ready for step 2. It seems as if the connectivity worked. The manual said that the light should go off on the DR 670 when I hit play and acid and that is what happened. Now, I want to simply create a drum pattern the drum machine and send it over to Acid. So, what next. YOU ARE THE MAN..along with peter and JR. Thanks Phil.
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:1/6/2005 5:37:33 AM So you want to record the drum parts into ACID? That would entail connecting the MIDI OUT of the drum machine to the MIDI IN of your PC. Then press MIDI record in ACID and it should start the drum machine playing and record the drum part. ~jr
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: Rednroll Date:1/6/2005 6:53:19 AM Hold on back up, before you do anything. This is where Peter's questions come into play. What we need to know is do you want to record the midi data from the Boss drum machine? What this will do is have all the midi data on a midi track in Acid, and when you play it back in Acid the midi data from Acid will trigger the sounds in the drum machine. The other option, which I think is what you're probably looking for, is to record the audio drum parts into Acid, this way everything is in Acid and you no longer need to sync the two together and are able to manipulate the audio parts in Acid. So what we need to know is, do you want to record the midi data or the audio from the drum machine? Peter Said: "Do you want to record the MIDI data of your drum pattern into ACID?" "Do you want to record the audio output of your drum patter into ACID?"
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:1/6/2005 7:58:31 AM Ah, that’s true. He could want to record the actual drum sounds as audio. In that case connect the AUDIO OUT of the drum machine to the AUDIO IN of your PC. Then press Audio record in ACID and it should start the drum machine playing and record the drum part as a wave file. ~jr
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/6/2005 10:34:31 AM But JR, Isn't that just a simple hardwire connection? If so, how will Acid be able to trigger the drum machine if I am no longer usin g MIDI?
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:1/6/2005 12:19:03 PM I didn’t say to remove the MIDI cable you already have connected. You were asking what Step 2 was. You still need to do Step 1. Here’s the complete hookup: 1. MIDI OUT from PC to MIDI IN of DR-670 2. AUDIO OUT of DR-670 to AUDIO IN of PC That will make the PC trigger the drum machine via MIDI and record the result via Audio. ~jr
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: Rednroll Date:1/6/2005 12:32:39 PM ssgphilip, Please answer these questions and we can help you out much more in detail of what to do next. Both are possible but are a few steps of explaining for each. "Do you want to record the MIDI data of your drum pattern into ACID?" "Do you want to record the audio output of your drum patter into ACID?"
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/6/2005 2:47:34 PM Hey Red, I hate to sound stupid..but what is the difference between those two questions. I mean, am I at an advantage/disadvantage for using either method?
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:1/6/2005 3:19:58 PM I think Red and Peter were just trying to understand what it was YOU were trying to do so they could help you achieve what you wanted. Here are the advantages and disadvantages as I see them: > Do you want to record the MIDI data of your drum pattern into ACID? Advantage: The recorded data is MIDI and therefore can be edited and changed in ACID. Disadvantage: You need the drum machine every time you want to play the song because you must send the MIDI data back to it in order to hear anything. Also, if you want to record the final song on your PC, you will eventually need to route the audio back into the PC to record it in the song. > Do you want to record the audio output of your drum pattern into ACID? Advantage: You are not reliant on the drum machine any more. No more MIDI sync issues. The data is ready to be mixed down into the final song. Disadvantage: The data cannot be easily edited. (note: you can make minor edits but they are audio edits) To change the drum pattern you must fix it in the drum machine and re-record it into ACID. I personally would never use a drum machine. That’s what attracted me to ACID i.e., having Mick Fleetwood play on my songs instead of me (a keyboard player playing a drum machine) So I would ditch the drum machine and just get a good drum loop library. If you must use a drum machine, I would record the loops as audio this way you don’t have to sync to the DR-670 every time you want to work on your song. But that’s just my way of working. Everyone is different. ~jr
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: Rednroll Date:1/6/2005 3:50:17 PM To add to what JR said. Another advantage of recording the midi data is that now what you played and recorded on the drum machine is now transferred into Acid. So now you can use the Acid GUI to edit the midi notes. So if you wanted to move the note timing around, you have a better user interface than the drum machine with a lot more power. When you record a performance on a drum machine, you are basically recording midi data in a sequencer. You therefore are just transferring data from one sequencer and copying it into another sequencer (Acid in this case). Acid then plays this midi data back and it triggers the sounds on your drum machine. You no longer have to sync Acid and the drum machine once you transfer the midi data to Acid, because the drum machine at this point will just be used as a sound module. Also regarding recording the audio from the drum machine. The best way to do this is in multiple passes. What you want to do is turn the volume down on all the drum sounds except for one....say the snare drum. Then you play Acid and record ONLY the snare drum and this gets recorded onto one track. After you've finished recording the snare drum, then you will turn the volume down on the snare pad and then turn up the volume on the kick drum. Then you do another pass and record the kick drum playing by itself. So on and so forth. So what you end up with is your individual drum sounds on their own tracks in Acid, where now you can add effects and Eq and adjust the levels of each to mix. You can't do this when you record the midi data because the sounds are still on the drum machine. Always remember this. Midi is your PERFORMANCE, it is not the Sounds of the drums. It is WHEN you hit the drum pad, how HARD you hit it and how LONG you pressed the pad, and how fast you RELEASED the note. So if you want to edit your performance then this is why you would record the midi data and you can edit all these parameters that are in BOLD. The audio should be self explainatory. This is the actual drum sounds. So if you want to do audio edits on the drum sounds, edit it and do a final mix, this is where you would record the audio. You could choose to not mute the individual sounds and record in multiple passes as I mentioned above, and just record one track of the entire drum performance. Just remember that when you do this, then there is no further mixing enhancements you can do to the individual drum parts because they are not on seperate tracks, and there's no way to split them apart.
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/6/2005 3:52:58 PM Thanks JR...Good explanation.. I will try to go directly into the souncard. Actually, I would lilke to try it both ways to see what I come up with. One more question. When I click on the Audio Tab in Acid, for some reason the only time I can gett any audio from Acid is when MICROSOFT SOUND MAPPER is selected. I try to use the CREATIVE ASIO but it will not play and shuts down. Why?
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:1/6/2005 4:35:47 PM > I try to use the CREATIVE ASIO but it will not play and shuts down. Why? ASIO drivers talk directly to the hardware and Creative hardware can only operate at 16 bit/48 KHz sample rate. Make sure your project is set to 16/48K BEFORE you switch to the Creative ASIO drivers. If it’s set to 16/44.1K (the default) or anything else the Creative ASIO drivers will complain and die. ~jr
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: ssgphilip Date:1/6/2005 7:11:31 PM JR, you are the man... It worked. Trust me, I will have more questions soon. Thanks
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:1/7/2005 4:27:36 AM > Trust me, I will have more questions soon Glad it worked. Trust me, we will have a new Instant ACID book for you that covers all of this soon. (Feb 1st) ;-) ~jr
Subject:RE: drum machine interface Reply by: coolout Date:1/7/2005 2:19:12 PM you could alway say screw the sync altogether. just set acid and your drum machine at the same tempo then record the audio or midi data blindly and line it up in acid. i found it's much easier that messing with sync not to mention i end up nudging the output anyway to find the right groove and match percussion loops for example. i'll let go of another secret...my thing now is to NOT use the sequencer in the drum machine AT ALL. just trigger from the pads. record the midi data or audio then loop the best passes. at that point you're not using a drum machine...you're using the machine as a drum. you'll get a better and more expressive performance that way.

Go Back