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Subject:EQ Latency
Posted by: spinweb
Date:12/28/2004 2:19:12 PM
I plugged my acoustic into a Taylor K4 Preamp/EQ unit and noticed that for the first time I have a huge latency problem. If I record through it, the parts come in too late on playback. I need to slide them over. Any ideas why this is? Thanks, Rick |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: JustOneOldMan
Date:12/28/2004 8:43:15 PM
I have exactly the same problem on vocal recordings. Two days ago everything worked fine with Acid 4 on the same hardware, now it's a huge latency issue with 5. And sliding it to exactly the right place when you're doing multiple takes on limited time is a pain. I sent tech support a ticket on it yesterday, but haven't heard anything yet. Had to reinstall 4 to keep working. I tried all latency settings and buffers, and played with all the card settings. My recordings also have a consistent pop in them. Terry |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:12/29/2004 11:10:20 AM
Soundcard/audio interface? Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid Pre-order Instant ACID mD at ACIDplanet Guitars 4 Kids |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: spinweb
Date:12/29/2004 11:21:08 AM
In my case, the chain is as follows: Mic --> EQ/PREAMP --> Echo Indigo I/O I have to step the 1/4 inch cord to a 1/8 Stereo Mini Plug to fit the Echo's input. Thanks, Rick |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: dbOS://00
Date:12/29/2004 2:36:49 PM
does that card allow direct monitor? |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: spinweb
Date:12/29/2004 3:09:12 PM
I don't think so. It just has an input and output. Here are the specs: http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/CardBus/IndigoIO/specs.php Thanks. Rick |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: JustOneOldMan
Date:12/29/2004 6:46:14 PM
I don't think so. It's just an Audigy 2 (I know, not the best but it's what I have in that machine right now) with the mic plugged directly into the mic in. It worked fine in version 4, and does again since I've reinstalled 4. In version 5 I can change the latency settings and the latency varies, but is never right. Usually it just speeds up or slows down the recording, which is unusual. Besides the extreme latency, I notice a regular "pop" in the recording at about 1-2 second intervals. Again, never happened in 4 and still doesn't. I did just receive a response from Sony, but it was the whole "check your drivers and shutdown other programs and unnecessary services" thing. I replied with everything I've done, but she won't be back in the office to respond till after the 3rd. I'm back to working in 4 till something gets resolved, but I gather from the forum that not all users are experiencing this problem. Are most of the users in here getting good recordings with no latency issues? Terry |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: pwppch
Date:12/29/2004 8:23:51 PM
JustOneOldMan: Please answer the following questions specifically for me. How much is "extreme latency", in milliseconds? What drivers are you using with the Audigy? ASIO? Wave Classic? Microsoft Sound Mapper? What is your sample rate? In Preferences | Audio tab, what is the setting for: "Automatically detect and offset for hardware recording latency"? If this option is unchecked, what is the setting you are using for "User recording latency offset(ms)? If you are using ASIO, what is your ASIO buffer setting for the drivers? (This can be determined by clicking the Advanced button in the Audio prefs page in ACID.) If you are using the Wave Classic drivers, what are settings for Audio buffers Buffer size (samples) Priority Again, these are all accessed from the Advance button in the Audio Prefs page.) Peter |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: JustOneOldMan
Date:12/29/2004 10:44:30 PM
Peter: The minimum latency I'm experiencing is 6+ full seconds. Not milliseconds. Generally it's a full 7+ bars. And this is true when there's no playback. If I open Acid 5 with no project loaded and go directly to record, I can click Start, say "Test" immediately, and immediately click Stop, and after building peaks I can have more than 7 bars of silence before the vocal. This is true whether a project is loaded and playing back or not. I'm sampling at 44,100. using the Microsoft Sound Mapper. It seemed to always work best in version 4 for me. I currently have "Autoimatically detect and offset..." turned on, but I tried manually adjusting from left to right and though it sometimes seemed to change the latency it most often simply changed the speed of the recording. Similar to using time compression. I'm using the latest Audigy driver from Creative - I use their web auto update. I've just uninstalled and reinstalled for the 3rd time with no change. I even tried a Registry optimization and defrag the last time before reinstall to make sure it was clean. But again, I can switch over to version 4 with all the same settings and everything works fine. It's getting a little frustrating, especially if I'm the only one experiencing the problem. Thanks... Terry *** Update: Peter, just wanted to thank you. While re-reading my answer to your post earlier it made me stop and think. I'm a sys admin, and one of the things I do on a daily basis is get hit with problems that seem to defy logic. I've learned over the years (about 28 now) in computer support that when everything else has been tried, go back to the basics. Forgot that on my own system. I uninstalled all my sound drivers and reinstalled manually. Looks like the problem has gone away. I've tried recording a number of different tracks and no problems yet. There was a very slight latency problem, but after a little testing a 100ms adjustment cured that. And while I'm feeling a little humbled I'll go edit my ticket to Sony and apologize for asking questions before I've tried everything. Something I often chastise my clients for. Thanks again... Terry |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: pwppch
Date:12/30/2004 6:10:58 AM
Terry, I am glad you discovered the cause. I was at a loss with the amount of latency you were getting. WRT to the ~100ms or so latency you are getting. The Microsoft Sound mapper does an on the fly conversion to any sample rate other than 48 kHz for the Audigy hardware. This is because the Audigy only supports 48 kHz in hardware. All other sample rates cause the "KMixer" of Windows to do a resample. This resampling can and will introduce some latency. We highly recommend the use of the Audigy ASIO drivers when recording. This will limit you to 48 kHz, but will reduce any recorded latency to 1-2 ms if any at all. Thanks again for sticking with it. Peter |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: JustOneOldMan
Date:12/30/2004 11:16:21 AM
Peter: I hadn't been able to use the ASIO drivers in the past, but I just tried them again and they work fine now. Must have been the same problem with the Audigy drivers that were installed. Some corruption somewhere. I'm back to automatic and everything is working fine. And I'm back to being excited about version 5. Just going to take a little time to get my 38,000+ loops categorized in Media Manager (by the way, I don't mind the slower load time others have complained about when I gain something like MM). It will make a HUGE difference in time required to find necessary loops. The track properties threw me a little. Some changes there. Love the quantization so far. I'm on the list for the DVD tutorials when they come out, think I'll do this one by the book. Thanks again for your help... Terry |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: MikeDee
Date:12/30/2004 7:59:13 PM
When I installed AP5, it defaulted to the ASIO drivers for my Layla24. I had virtually no latency when playing the Native Instruments Xpress Keyboards, as well as Spectrasonics Atmosphere and Stylus. But after I switched to the PureWave driver, which bypasses the Windows kernal (direct communication with the hardware -- works great with SAWStudio), I wound up with latency of about 250 ms. So...back to the ASIO driver...no more latency. What's good for the goose is not always good for the gander. ;) Regards & Happy New Year! :) Mike E. Dee |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: spinweb
Date:12/30/2004 9:31:34 PM
Wait a second guys. I started this thread and haven't gotten an answer in English as to why v5 is full of latency when I'm recording. Throw me a &#@& bone. :-) Happy New Year. Rick |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: pwppch
Date:12/31/2004 1:51:09 PM
If you switch to the PureWave drivers, you can improve ACID's performance by changing the advances settings in ACID for Wave Classic Drivers. By default, ACID will use a entire buffer setting when working with standard WDM drivers. Since the PureWave drivers are native Wave drivers vs emulated, you should set ACID's buffer size on the Advanced audio page to that which you set the PureWave buffer size. You coul also work with 2 buffers, though 3 is sometime better with the PureWave drivers. Peter |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: pwppch
Date:12/31/2004 1:53:32 PM
From you original post an follow up, you are stating that by using an external EQ device that you are increasing the recording latency. I can't imagine how that would occur, and if it does, there is nothing that ACID can do about it, assuming that the latency doesn't exist if you remove the external EQ. Please, fill me in here if this is not correct. Peter |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: spinweb
Date:1/2/2005 10:49:12 AM
The latency I speak of is there without the preamp. I plug my guitar into the sound card, record IN TIME with the drums, and when I playback, the guitar is woefully behind. << PureWave drivers>> How do I change to these? I looked in the record devices and see only Microsoft Sound Mapper as an option. Thanks! Rick |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: pwppch
Date:1/2/2005 2:56:51 PM
If you go to the audio prefs page in ACID, you have only the Mapper as an option? You can't select Wave Classic drivers or ASIO? Purewave is documented by Echo. I would suggest you get the pdf file from Echo's web site. For my Layla, you change this from the Echo Console program. Select the Settings button, and on the first tab select Advanced. Peter |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: spinweb
Date:1/3/2005 3:55:32 PM
Sorry... I was looking in the window you get when rendering a file... WIndows Classic WAVE Driver and ASIO ECHO WDM are options there. I've selected the former, but have not had the chance to do any recording yet. The options under the Advanced tab are all Greek to me, as they say. Do I need to change any of them? Thanks! Rick |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: pwppch
Date:1/3/2005 6:20:02 PM
I would recommend using the ASIO drivers. You will get the lowest latency possible. The Advance tab for ASIO drivers permits you to access the ASIO drivers configuration tool. This is where you tell the ASIO drivers how much buffering to use, which defines the latency. The Advanced tab for any Wave Classic driver permits you to configure ACID to work with true and native Wave Drivers. By default the settings are for use with WDM emulated Wave drivers. If you switch your Echo hardware over to Purewave mode, you should go here to set the buffer size to match the setting you made for the Purewave drivers. The other settings are for specific system issue. I would not change these unless you experiance problems. This is all discussed in the online help and in the ACID users guide pdf. Peter |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: spinweb
Date:1/6/2005 6:37:15 AM
Thanks for being so responsive. I changed the driver, but have not been able to record yet. For now, I guess I leave everything else alone and see how it works. Hopefully the latency will be gone. :) Rick |
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Subject:RE: EQ Latency
Reply by: spinweb
Date:1/13/2005 6:59:21 PM
I did notice that when I switched to the ASIO drivers, all the sudden I couldn't open up sound files from the web in WinAmp. Have to change back to Windows Sound Mapper, or whatever it is. -Rick |