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Posted by: Dj Creeble
Date:12/15/2004 3:08:19 PM

Sup yall? Its been too long since my last post but I'm in need of some advice.
I'm currently working on a 2xCD set of native american songs. I was wondering the best possible way to record a live voice and a small hand drum. I'm using just a SM58 mic through a SoundBlaster Audigy 2 platinum Pro (I know its crap), AMD athlon 64 FX-51, Gig of DDR400, also have a Behringer DDX3216 digital mixer. Any suggestions? Equipment I should pick up? Any input would be appreciated!!!

Dj Jc3 aka Endosphere

Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: Dj Creeble
Date:12/16/2004 10:46:14 PM

well thanks yall for replying to my post...I'm sorry but I really need sum feedback to my question and yall are no help.

Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date:12/17/2004 5:58:46 AM

Your question has more to do audio recording in general and less to do with ACID, which can be used without ever recording anything live at all. You would probably get more responses to your “hardware” question in the Vegas Audio or Sound Forge forums than the ACID forum even though you are recording with ACID. I know people like Douglas Spotted Eagle have recorded many Native American musicians so he would have the best answer.

I recently switched from a Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum to an M-Audio Firewire 410 and I can tell you it the difference was more dramatic than I thought it would be. Like you, I knew the Audigy was crap but I didn’t realize how much that crap was affecting my sound. If I were you, I would at least get something like an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card (about $99 street price, you can’t go wrong). This will ensure that you are getting good audio into your PC. Trust me on this one, ditch the Audigy.

There is nothing wrong with an SM58 (I use one myself) but I’m also looking for a good condenser mic for vocals. I had an Audio Technica but in unpacking my studio recently I can’t seem to find it. :( I would have to leave that recommendation to others as I am curious too.


Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: pwppch
Date:12/17/2004 6:36:40 AM

You may want to post in the Vegas Video forum and direct your post to SPOT - Douglas Spotted Eagle. SPOT is well known in the Native American recording genre - has Grammy in this area.


Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: Spot/DSE
Date:12/17/2004 7:36:24 AM

Actually DJ, you should REALLY thank these guys for alerting me to your post in the ACID forum, because I don't come here all that often. I can always be found in the Vegas forum, because Vegas is a real recording tool, while ACID just has *some* recording capabilities.

Anyway, you didn't specify what kind of drum, is it a hand drum, powwow drum/floor drum with multiple singers, Seal drum, hide or plastic covered drum, all have very different characteristics.
The 58 *will* work for some of this, although it's not very good for drums. I'd be removing the ball and turning your 58 into a 57, and miking that way.
As far as voice, the 58 will work, but should be placed a good foot higher than the mouth of the singer, and have the singer sing up into it, if you want to catch the clarity. The 58 really is a dull microphone, and it's the throat and nasal sounds that are best captured in traditional indigenous vocals.

Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: Dj Creeble
Date:12/17/2004 8:10:32 AM

Sorry bout that last message....Thank you all so much for replying.
I'm using a hand drum so I picked up a PG81 which seems to work well. Your right about the 58 spot, not the greatest for vocals, but I'm on a tight budget. I have a echo layla 24/96 external sound card but no pci adapter or else I'd be using that. Anyway I really appreciate the advice and its making a difference. Ever heard of Eddie Box Sr. aka Red Ute?

Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: Caruso
Date:12/19/2004 3:01:25 AM

Can you be specific about the improvement to your audio and that switch in soundcards?
I keep hearing that the Audigy is a crappy card, but no one has described what sort of improvements I might realize by upgrading mine (for me, this would be a second upgrade, as my machine came with something even more crappy than an Audigy - as an onboard sound card. It allowed so much hum and such from the computer, that it was totally useless for recording live music, although files imported sounded fine - go figure.

Anyhow, the CD's, video, and such that I create on my computer sound good to me - so I'm wondering just what sorts of improvments you've realizing by going to a better card. The one you describe, if purchased for the money you mention, is only fourty dollars more than what I paid for my Audigy, so, such an upgrade is not out of range if it would greatly improve what I'm doing.

Thanks for any tips.


Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date:12/19/2004 8:35:25 AM

> Can you be specific about the improvement to your audio and that switch in soundcards?

I also changed my speakers at the same time so I’m sure some of the improvement was due to using M-Audio Studiophile LX4’s (5.1) instead of the Creative DTT2200 5.1 that I was using. The audio seems less “colored” and high end is crisper. I can hear parts in the stereo field much more clearly now. Everything seems to be better separated and less muddy. I haven’t done much audio recording yet but I expect it to be cleaner due to the better DACs.

As for the Audigy 2 ZS card itself, it can only support ASIO at 16/48 or 24/96. That’s it! There was no 24/48 support which I thought was ridiculous as this is a good compromise between quality and disk space. I also could not get it to work reliably at 24/96. I had problems with audio playing faster than it should. I just never could resolve it so I abandoned trying.

Finally, the Creative drivers were driving me crazy. Every other day I would load ACID or Vegas and get an error “Creative ASIO Device has changed” or something like that. It was totally bogus. I would have to reselect the Audigy 2 drivers and press the Advanced setting and reset them to 5ms latency (they default to 50ms). It got annoying real fast. I am just so glad to be rid of anything having to do with Creative.


Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: Dodger27
Date:12/19/2004 9:04:26 AM

Hey DJ,

I recently added an aural exciter into my recording equipment. If you are going to record live drum and vocal sets, you may want to consider adding a component like this. An aural exciter boosts the extreme ends of the frequency spectrum and sublte background sound by 6 db, but maintains a slight compression on high amplitude signals and freq's to avoid overdrive. Most aural exciters are sold as rack mount gear but can be mounted in series with your analog recording input or as an effect off of a mixer board. They are relatively inexpesive as rack mount gear goes. I bought a Aphex 204 which boosts both the bass and the central audio frequencies via separate controls.

You will however want to be adept and the use of a Noise Gate in Sony Acid Pro to assistn in pickoff of unwanted singal noise as needed.

Hope that helps...and excellent recording subject!!

Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: Dj Creeble
Date:12/19/2004 11:31:31 AM

Thanks fer the tip. I used noise reduction to get rid of all the white noise. The native american is very elderly and I had to crank up the gain quite a bit on my Behringer. I'lll look into an aural exciter, sounds like it would help. (or smashing my audigy2 zs p pro into pieces with a claw hammer) Isn't there a plugin version of the aural?

Subject:RE: Recording...
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date:12/19/2004 11:52:17 AM

> Isn't there a plugin version of the aural?

The BBE Sonic Maximizer is available as a VST plugin. The Aphex Aural Exciter is available as a TDM plug only (ProTools). You might want to try X-cita which is a free plug from elogoXa.


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