Pan Plugin - check it out!

Eh? Can you elaborate?

Panning the return isn't an option. Say I have one vocal track panned to the left, and another panned to the right. Both are being sent to the same delay on an FX bus. As it stands both come out of that bus with their delays in the centre; they don't maintain their respective pan positions.

I see this as a fundamental problem with Vegas' routing, together with the issues mentioned in this thread:

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=19&MessageID=321695

Ben

There is a plugin that comes bundled with Vegas 5 called "Pan". Try it, please.

Keep in mind though, as I just found out, with the standard Sony Reverb it doesn't seem to matter, the verb and early reflection will always sound centered, but that's a fault of that spacific plugin I'm assuming, as the dry signal is indeed panned. With the Simple Delay plug-in this is not a problem though.

Oh, the only problem I've been seeming to have is that the pan plugin can't perform in a 'Constant Power' mode - which I often like to use. I'm pretty sure there are more advanced pan plugins out there though, but a obvious solution to this (for a future release of Vegas of course) may be a "Pre/Post Aux" switch on the built-in pan tool. That would be my wish anyways.

Excellent - thanks for that!

I was surprised to find that the bus sends are post track fx though - I guess it's fair to say inline track fx are more relevant for gates & early fx rather than reverbs & compression anyway!

Lucky we have busses... shame we can't route between busses though!

ackkk

this subject caused a zillion post ultra flame fest of epic proportions.

Go to the help file and take a look at the signal routing. You will see that depending on how you right click the track and whether you are sending a parallel or series tap to the bus it will or will not follow the pan settings

The diagram does not show HOW to do it though, and I can't for the life of me figure it out on my own. Plus trying to find the instructions so far has been like trying to find a needle in a hay-stack. Sorry if the question bugs you, but could you (or someone else more willing) please share it? It could easily just be a bug some of us may share... eh, and I'm having a rather off-day today too, so I could simply be going a tad crazy.

Sorry, again, I'm trying to keep the track's pan setting when feeding a FX bus (or "Assignable FX"), not a standard bus (not that that seems to matter), so I guess that means it's a parallel tap(?)

ahh no, the question doesnt bug me...
see this is the trouble. The Guys have built such an AMAZINGLY intuitive interface, that we dont even need a helpfile for 99.999999999% of it. So we got so spoiled we dont know how to look in it

The bus routing issue, in terms of using them for hardware outs, has been handled badly in my opinion, but so few times is it necessary enough that it really bothers anyone

Heres how to do what you want

For a series send where that channel's final output goes to the bus:

just click the assign button and assign it to that bus, it will follow your channel's pan setting

Uh OH

You know what, you hit on it....something has changed a bunch, maybe its time for another hateful thread full of forum member expelling vitriol

In the newest manual, page 34, according to the routing, fx and aux bus send pan is futzed. It wasnt like this before

This is a HUGE F**k up and is completely unacceptable! I can hardly believe I haven't noticed this before.

SONY: In your literature, you failed to mention that in version5 you changed the routing, making it complely unable to pan FX sends which are post fader. v4 wasn't like this. To anyone using this program for audio, this is not even in the ballpark of O.K.!

This Needs to be corrected!

nuts, I feel like a tard too. I wasnt noticing this since my reverbs were outboard, I guess, and usually mono to stereo.

Just two days agoI found myself panning a flanger, but I thought it was just because it wasnt set right to get it on one speaker more or less how I wanted it.

After al this, 15 minutes ago, I just pulled up an old mix, that I had scads of stereo fx from a vegas 4 project on. I rendered a mix, and compared it to the old v4 render

It was interesting. I gotta investigate sending more fx sends to mono even if/when they get this fixed. In a lot of ways the v5 mix was way more smeared up but in some ways it was cool like that

but yeah, lets everyone email them or go to product suggestion or whatever

Yes - this is my point! Major league cock-up here - this surely can't be a deliberate routing decision? I bloody well hope it isn't.

Sony NEED to fix this in the next version 5 release. It makes working with assignable FX pretty much impossible. Well, unless you like to mix in mono. V4 definitely didn't have this issue.

To be frank, I'm beginning to get pretty frustrated with Sony seemingly ignoring many audio issues - and I'm not even talking about the new features we've been asking for. There's this major issue... and someone again has just mentioned the metronome bug, which was been with us since version 3. Why are these problems not being fixed?

Ben

Woah - what did I start here. I took the plunge & moved from ProTools to V5 having already been familiar with V4... but it was only recently that I thought I must be doing something wrong since all my reverb seemed to be coming back from the centre (as if the reverb itself were mono) and it just struck me to try sending to a Bus without any plug-in and watch the meters.

Yet I know this wasn't the case in V4 since I did a test project just before V5 came out with two tracks hard panned and both going to reverb - all fine. In the excitement of getting such a great new version I hadn't noticed this for a while... but then who would have thought that they would change this routing!?! If it's like this in 5.0a and 5.0b then it looks deliberate but I'm amazed there's no right-click pre/post pan.

Sony have kept quiet on this thread - I do hope we have a response at some stage because I'm starting to lose faith now I've discovered the frustration of a lack of standard features like aux send following pan + no bus aux send to bus + no fader grouping in the first few months of use.

Maybe sometimes we forget that some things are a little odd... eg we've got used to a "mixer" that doesn't actually let you mix the tracks! But you can overlook such things because there's brilliant flexibility and ease of use elsewhere. I just hope the "outstanding issues" can be sorted simply to tighten up a generally great system.

Well, I feel what you feel, too. I decided long ago that ACID and Vegas were the tools for me. They are the ONLY intuitive, fast and efficient tools for me. But, I don't understand how this could possibly be changed and not have anyone on the development team challenge this. Are they completely out of touch?

It seems like it is deliberate since it is shown in the neat "Audio Signal Flow" diagram. I sincerely hope it was an oversight. After all, there is no way now to recreate any version4 mixes in version5. Not even any halfway convenient workarounds.

I am willing to forgo many of the additional features that other DAWs offer in order to get the efficiency that I find with SONY. But between this problem and ACID 4 being riddled with bugs that will never be fixed until version5 (hopefully), I find myself wondering if I'm not starting to go down with a sinking ship.

PLEASE - somebody at SONY tell us this will be fixed!!

My work-around for converting older versions to V5 seems to be working fine so far, though I can imagine many situations it might not work (for one, like I already stated, the plugin can't work in other modes):

1. Place a Pan Plugin on the end of each Track's FX Chain.

2. Copy over the settings/envelopes of the Track Pan.

3. Default the track's Track Pan to center.

Sorted. I usually can skip a few tracks as they don't have any aux/bus sends but the whole ordeal takes only a few minutes. I'm usually only working with up to 12-16 tracks total though, I would imagine a script could do all of this automatically too. Any one care to comment/help on this matter? We already know complaining doesn't get us anywhere - though, yes, H2000, I feel your pain!

Hopefully everyone on this thread has emailed Sony

Youn, I see your solution and I really appreciate you sharing it! I probably wouldn't have thought to do that, so thank you.

I guess this could be considered a "halfway workaround", although I was referring to a workaround within the existing signal/bus flow (without plugins).

But, thanks again. I will use your suggestion as neccessary.

I emailed SONY regarding this, but have not heard back yet.

Well, I finally got a response from SONY today via email:

"In the newer Vegas 5.0 software, this is how the audio routing has been redesigned. At this time, it's hard to say what is going to be done for a later version of Vegas. The work around at this point is to include the "Pan" Track Effect in any tracks you would like this capability in."

No explaination or anything! And where was this "work around" ever mentioned before Youn told of it in this thread?

So basically SONY redesigned the Audio Path without announcing it, and made Vegas5 such that Vegas4 and prior version mixes cannot be recreated unless "Pan" plug-ins are implemented where neccessary. Does anyone else see this as really lame?

Well it's all very dry & corporate these days isn't it?! But that's understandable I guess - I think the main disadvantage with this is that it means a company has a lack of a need to explain why something was done that way.

In this case it would be useful to know if Sony fears there's an advantage. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to when/how/why this new way would be used. (Except tmrp*o - please for the LOVE OF GOD.. I don't want to be told why myself and everyone else are wrong and not real professionals etc!)

Looking on the bright side, the use of the term "work around" suggests to me that it's not the de facto "new way to do it" but the "current" way so let's hope they do give us the send to bus pre/post pan option in future.

There - I'm putting faith in them!

drew

If I get what you said right, then all is as should be.
Effects on busses should be all "wet" and based in the middle, while you use the track's pan to position the source. The track itself should not be routed to the bus, only the FX, and then all wet.

...should?

ugh, too funny :)

yes, should, as the digital world mostly tries to remake the analog way of function and how it works.
That's why a software like Reason and many other soft synths have a graphic interface that looks like its old predecessor or likewise, with knobs and cables and stuff you don't really need, or even want.
The same with most MTR programs. It tries to mimic working with a mixer and a multitrack tape recorder. It's a very sane way to lower the learning threshold when going from analog to digital platforms, even if the digital platform could go into totally different ways of working, it mostly just remakes the analog way.
If you send a source via aux on a mixer to a stereo bus where you have a reverb unit connected, and this unit is not set to all wet on the output, the dry signal will go center even if you pan the source track L/R.
And this is what the software mimics.
And this is how I saw was the problem.
After reading more posts it seems that the FX return as a whole comes back centered in mono, and THAT would be really off.
Lucky I'm still with V4 and no plans to update.