Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. -ACID Product Family

ACID Product Family

Subject:Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Posted by: jbow Date:11/28/2004 6:47:43 PM I have been getting emails offering me, an Acid user since Acid 2.0...I upgraded to Acid Music 3.0...offering me the opportunity to upgrade from Acid Music 3.0 to Acid Pro5 for the great price of 299.00 Well, today I see on the Musician's Friend website that a new user can purchase Acid Pro5 for 249.00 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/700973/ What kind of "deal" is Sony offering me for being a long time user and customer?? What kind of CRAP is this?? Please explain... Julien
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: coolout Date:11/28/2004 9:15:20 PM i noticed that too... i guess it pays to shop around. although, i think acid music users should get the $150 upgrade price considering the upgrade price for AP4 was $99. IMHO $250-300 isn't really an upgrage price unless the app costs $999 retail. other apps like ableton for example let you upgrade for around $100-150 to the latest version no matter if you have Live 1, 2, or 3. is this sony squeezing out the bottom line?
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:11/28/2004 9:39:44 PM > other apps like ableton for example let you upgrade for around $100-150 to the latest version no matter if you have Live 1, 2, or 3. So does Sony! You can upgrade ANY version of ACID Pro (1,2,3,4) to ACID Pro 5 for $149. ACID Music Studio and Screenblast ACID are NOT ACID Pro! Sony sells ACID Pro for $399. ACID Music Studio cost $69. Upgrading for $299 is giving you $100 credit for your $69 purchase! That makes it cheaper to buy ACID Music Studio and upgrade to ACID Pro than to buy ACID Pro outright!!! So the Sony deal isn’t that bad. The fact that some retailers sell ACID Pro 5.0 for less than the upgrade is because they use it as a “loss leader” to get you to buy or they are matching a competitor’s sale. They make very little money on it but they get you as a customer so its worth it to them. Sweetwater is still selling ACID Pro 4.0 for $349 and ProWareAudio is selling ACID Pro 4.0 for $299 while Amazon has ACID Pro 4 for $249. Sam Ash, Musician’s Friend have ACID Pro 5.0 for $249, and audioMIDI all has ACID Pro 5.0 for $245. You’re right. It pays to shop around. ~jr
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: djHSL Date:11/28/2004 9:39:49 PM I was about to upgrade from Acid Music Studio, but then I got an eMail from Florida Music Company offering the full product at $244. It doesn't make sense. If Sony priced the upgrade at $195 they would get the entire amount. If I buy at a cheaper price from another company, Sony will be lucky to get $100 of the amount I pay, and probably less than that. I don't think Sony is trying to shaft me, but I think there might be a lack of intelligence in their marketing/sales department!
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: tmrpro Date:11/28/2004 10:36:49 PM I totally agree. I think that this is completely ridiculous and must have been a mistake. Sony (or any manufacturer for that matter) should not make any upgrade price higher than minimum advertised price (MAP) allowed to dealers for a full version .
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: duman95 Date:11/29/2004 10:57:21 AM I understand your feelings. But the previous posts are right on the money. Acid Music is not Acid Pro. The retailers take a hit on the products and I bet Sony does too to get you to be a Sony customer. I have had Acid Pro since v 1.0 and brought it at a retailer for 1/2 the retail price back then. Upgraded to 2.0 for $99, then just now upgraded to 5.0 for $149. I can't complain and am a bit thankful Sony allows users to upgrade pro from older version, if not I would be paying the $245 retail prices you all found. I also have FL Studio and have free lifetime upgrades. But they are a far smaller company and there is no guarentee that it will continue, although I hope it does! My point is I feel your pain and $149 is a bit on the steep side for upgrades to software but I really enjoy using Acid and feel pretty productive in it so I pay it and make sure I use it!
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: DaSoundGuy Date:11/29/2004 12:46:08 PM "Upgraded to 2.0 for $99, then just now upgraded to 5.0 for $149." I've upgraded from 1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0 to 4.0. Guess I should have stayed at 2.0 as well. I simply don't understand why they don't offer a $99 upgrade to Acid Pro 4 users, and just drop the "extras" that they have to ship. Being an international customer, that shipping kills the deal anyway. I also agree that Sony needs to revise their upgrade pricing, especially for their older customers.
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: ExtraEcho Date:11/29/2004 2:09:00 PM i wouldnt even think of upgrading until the software has a decent update to it. save your money and wait til they patch it. it'll probably be cheaper by that point.
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: Spirit Date:11/29/2004 2:14:47 PM With all the bugs in this release, combined with a ridicuous upgrade price, there's no way I'm jumping on this unless Sony start getting real. Drop the usless trinkets that are bundled, fix the bugs and drop the price. This release is getting absolutely hammered as buggy all over the web. And so far I haven't seen any major site bother with a review. This version just isn't cutting through.
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: jbow Date:11/29/2004 3:49:53 PM Maybe Sony does not = Sonic Foundry?? Maybe. I'm really glad I have not upgraded. I will wait for the fixes. I am a Sonar user and I jumped from Sonar 2.2 Producer to Sonar4 Producer because Cakewalk offered me a sweet deal...same price as the S3 to S4 upgrade. Some of the S3 users complained but Cakewalk got my money and I was happy that I waited. So i'll be here waiting... I am going to buy a copy of Acid Pro4 if I can find a new one at a good (cheap) price. I'm watching Ebay. The reason i'm interested in Acid5 is for the Re-wire capabilities and I believe that Acid4 Pro has that, huh? Anyway, maybe soon Sony will get the bugs fixed and offer a "get on board" deal. Julien
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: Iacobus Date:11/29/2004 7:19:51 PM Musician's Friend can charge what they want, just as Sony can. That's how retailing works. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid Pre-order Instant ACID mD at ACIDplanet Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: billybk Date:11/29/2004 8:40:31 PM For all you guys that are "waiting" for "all" the bugs to be fixed, you might just as well stop using any audio software then, because you will be waiting for a very long time. Now I know some of you did not just get off the turnip truck, and have probably been exposed to audio software releases from other companies over the years, can any of you, with a straight face say any release has been totally or even remotely bug free, ever............. Just to lend a little balance here, the current flavor of the month, LIVE 4, (which is a great program, no doubt, I am only using as an example you could easliy substitute any other audio host app, SONAR 4, Cubase SX 3, Nuendo and so on) is already on version 4.04 and even after a much heralded an extensive public beta testing period earlier this year and (3) updates since there are still many bugs and probably always will be until the next 5.0 version is released and the whole cycle begins again. I am not trying to make excuses, in a perfect world there would be a bug free release. As I recall, Ron Kuper & Greg Hendershott once said, when asked about the remaining bugs in SONAR 3, and I am paraphrasing here, they (Cakewalk) could conceivably release a nearly bug free SONAR, but it would be about 5 years or more between releases and cost about $10,000 dollars to upgrade. Yes, everything does have it's price. As for the LIVE 4.04 update, just released in October, there were additional bug fixes, nearly 30 since 4.0, and by reading the latest posts from Ableton's Bugs & Problems forum, I am sure it won't be the last bug update either. Now I could easily substitute SONAR, Nuendo, Samplitude, SX, you name it and the bug list would be just as long, if not longer. Let's be clear, I am not trying to pick on LIVE, which I happen to like, and is a great audio app, but only trying to make a point, since some people think bugs are an ACID 5 phenomenon........ well dream on: =============================================================================== The list of bug fixes and improvements from Live 4.0.3 to Live 4.0.4: =============================================================================== =============================================================================== ============================================================================== [01] Bug: Select clip crash Platform: All Under special circumstances Live would crash when an audio clip was selected with the mouse. Status: Fixed ============================================================================== [02] Bug: Automatic creation of audio tracks Platform: All Live would be crashed when dragging an audio file into the "empty" space in the arranger Status: Fixed ============================================================================== [03] Bug: Play scene using KEY or MIDI Remote Platform: All Assuming you have so much scenes that the vertical scroller appears. If you had then fired a "hided" scene using KEY or MIDI Remote, the scene would not be selected. Status: Fixed ============================================================================== [04] Bug: Hanging Notes Platform: All Sometimes it was possible to create hanging notes when switching the OVR button. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [05] Bug: Impulse Instrument Platform: All Under special circumstances there were MIDI drop outs when many voices were requested at nearly the same time. Status: Fixed ============================================================================== [06] Bug: VST preset Platform: All Some VST plug-ins are not VST conform in their parameter range like GMedia M-Tron, IK Multimedia Sampletank 1LE. When loading a song with such VSTs Live would correct the parameter range. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [07] Improvement:: LinPlug RM IV Platform: All Better performance with LinPlug RM IV when triggering a pad in the GUI Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [08] Improvement: MIDI files with invalid data Platform: All Better support for MIDI files with invalid data. Now it is possible to open such files by correcting the data. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== The list of bug fixes and improvements from Live 4.0.2 to Live 4.0.3: =============================================================================== =============================================================================== =============================================================================== [01] Bug: Plug-Ins with Multiple In/outs Platform: All Multiple outs of plug-ins would not be available after loading a song. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [02] Bug: Impulse clicks Platform: All When an Impulse instrument pad was triggered several times per second it would create clicks in the audio. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [03] Bug: MIDI out routing loop Platform: All Live would crash when a MIDI out routing loop was created like this: Track 1 -> Track 2 Track 2 -> Track 3 Track 3 -> Track 2 Status: Fixed =============================================================================== The list of bug fixes and improvements from Live 4.0.1 to Live 4.0.2: =============================================================================== =============================================================================== =============================================================================== Additional content: Live 4.0.2 contains two new Lessons: "6-Mix and Remix" and "7-Hands-On Control". Furthermore, all Lessons are now available in all supported languages (English, German, French, Spanish and Japanese). =============================================================================== [01] Bug: ReWire Master Platform: All When Live was the ReWire Master, switching to arranger or hiding I/O View caused an incorrect ReWire Slave to be activated. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [02] Bug: ReWire Master to Reason: Loop Platform: All When Live was running as ReWire Master for Reason, and the loop was enabled, sometimes Reason would stand still for one loop cycle. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [03] Bug: ReWire Master: Program Changes Platform: All When Live was running as ReWire Master, program change messages sent to the ReWire Slave were not correct. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [04] Bug: ReWire Slave: Sample Rate Platform: All When running Live as ReWire Slave, only a sample rate of 44100 kHz worked correctly with some hosts. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [05] Bug: Channel Enabling/Disabling for ASIO Platform: Mac OS 9 Live would freeze when trying to enable/disable channels on multichannel audio interfaces using ASIO. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [06] Bug: Load Documents with Reaktor as AU Platform: Mac OS X Live would crash when loading a document containing Reaktor (as AU). This fix also enables full dynamic parameter support for Audio Units. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [07] Bug: Rendering Long Song with Tempo Automation Platform: All Under special circumstances Live would crash when a long song with tempo automation was rendered. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [08] Bug: Rendering MIDI Tracks Platform: All Rendering MIDI tracks would produce corrupt audio files under some circumstances. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [09] Bug: Rendering MIDI with Plug-in Instruments Platform: All Often, the first bar was not completely rendered when a MIDI track containing a plug-in instrument was rendered. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [10] Bug: Recording Files Larger Than 2GB Platform: All Live would crash when trying to record files larger than 2 GB. Now, when a recording file approaches the 2GB limit, its track is automatically and silently disarmed. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [11] Bug: Session Overdub Recording with Global Record Platform: All When a session clip's loop settings were changed, it would update according to the clip update rate. Now it takes effect immediately. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [12] Bug: Plug-in Instruments: Side Chain Platform: All First side chain input bus of instruments with multiple outs did not work. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [13] Bug: Plug-in Instruments in Bypass Platform: All Plug-In instruments consumed still processor power when bypassed. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [14] Bug: Plug-in Content Platform: Mac only Some plug-ins did not locate content (ie. Steinberg Plex.) Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [15] Bug: Sending of NRPNs Platform: All NRPNs were not correctly sent through Live and to plug-ins. With this bug fix the Korg Legacy Collection plug-ins will work in Live. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [16] Bug: Missing Notes with Remote25 (USB) Platform: Mac OS X There were missed notes when using the Novation Remote25 connected via USB. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [17] Bug: Key and MIDI Mapping on Moved Effects/Instruments Platform: All When an effect or instrument was moved from one track into another track, all Key and MIDI mappings were lost. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [18] Bug: <Delete> Key in Dialogs Platform: Mac only Sometimes the <Delete> key did not work in dialogs. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [19] Bug: Copy-Modifier Key Platform: All When using the Copy-modifier key it was necessary to hold it down before the mouse down. Now it can be done also after the mouse down. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [20] Bug: Japanese Characters in File Name Platform: Win only It was not possible to open or save a Live set if the name or the path of the set contained Japanese characters. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [21] Bug: Athlon 64 Compatibility Platform: Win XP There were no sound and graphical updates on Athlon 64 machines running on Windows XP with Service Pack 2 with the new ""Execution Protection"" feature enabled. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [22] Bug: Hyper Threading Compatibility Platform: Win only Audio performance was sometimes worse on computers with Hyper Threading enabled. For now Live switches to one logical CPU. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [23] Bug: Running on Mac OS 10.1.5 Platform: Mac OS 10.1.5 Live would not start on Mac OS 10.1.5 Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [24] Bug: Automation Chooser for Tracks with MIDI Output Platform: All For tracks with a MIDI output, Mixer did not appear in the track automation chooser. Now it shows at least the "Speaker On" entry. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [25] Bug: Dragging Looped Arranger Clips Platform: All When dragging the left edge of a looped arranger clip to the left, the offset marker was not folded correctly. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [26] Bug: Mouse Wheel in Popup Windows Platform: All Sometimes mouse wheel in popup windows did not work as expected. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [27] Bug: Play Selection Platform: All There were clicks in the audio when play selection (Shift + Space) was used. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [28] Bug: Loop with Snap to Grid Platform: All When changing the clip loop settings, the loop would snap to the grid even if the grid was off. Status: Fixed =============================================================================== [29] Improvement: Solo in Place Platform: All New "Solo in Place" functionality in the "option" menu. When active, you can solo a track and hear this track and the return track(s) too when they get a signal from this track. =============================================================================== [30] Improvement: Previewing While Renaming Files in Browser Platform: All When a file was renamed in Live's browser the preview switch was switched off. =============================================================================== [31] Improvement: Swing Value Range Platform: All Increased the value range for swing. =============================================================================== [32] Bug: Improvement on Plug-in Parameter Handling when Automations are used. Platform: All Under certain circumstances automations in plug-ins that have been saved into songs, didn't playback as expected because the preset value was changed. Status: Fixed I think some users expectations of a totally bugfree $149.00 point release, even from Sony, is a little unrealistic and naive, don't you think. Hey, I would like to see a totally bug free release, in every app, that I buy. But, in today's market driven climate, where everyone is trying to add the most cutting edge features, in the shortest amount of time, I don't see it happening any time soon. Nor do I see users waiting 5 years or more between releases and paying thousands of dollars to upgrade. The companies themselves would not be around for long for lack of capital. Five years between paychecks and that's if your "loyal" customers stick around that long. Too much of a gamble for most people. Billy Buck
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: Spirit Date:11/29/2004 10:23:18 PM EDIT: This was a giant rave about how hopeless I think this release is, but I've deleted it. To be honest I just can't be bothered with Acid anymore. Not even enough to comment any further. Threads like this are doing the talking for Acid: http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65028
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: coolout Date:11/29/2004 11:46:05 PM let me just say i couldn't wait to upgrade to AP5 and i totally disagree with the whole "shiney trinkets and little substance" rhetoric. acid's main focus has always been loop and audio manipulation and has now grown to be a pretty servicable, easy to use DAW. the new features are HUGE and represent major steps towards innovation. you might not believe it but being able to trigger and quantize audio is a BIG DEAL. if they develop this more and add the ability to map samples to different keys and/or midi notes along with tightening up the triggering, acid basically becomes an open platform SAMPLING DRUM MACHINE. then i can make my own groove maps (based on my favorite drum patterns of all time) and sell my Akai MPC. i'm sorry...unless you keep a mic'd drum kit around and a really funky drummer on staff THAT'S MAJOR. folder tracks? VST? rewire slave? this is stuff everyone wanted. how can anyone call acid 5 "half-ssed"? native instruments makes some of the best virtual synths available and basic difference between the xpress versions and full ones is deeper editing. how many of you build your patches from scratch? you know... most people just use presets anyways. i think that whole list of live bugs was to prove that the grass is not greener. i'm sorry, if acid 5 crashed "when an audio clip was selected with the mouse" even if it was for two weeks, i would be really upset. that's why i TRIED to start a single thread for all of the initial acid 5 bugs so everyone could see the 4 or 5 things that the development team needs to tweak. BUT NO!!!...everyone wants to btch n' moan and get personal attention. what happened to the community effort? look at the threads closely and you'll find everyone keeps complaining about the same 4 THINGS. it's not like acid 5 just plain doesn't work. it does. heck, i'm glad it made me clean out my VST folder and only put in the plugs that i really use. the way i look at it i paid $99 for the acid 4 download...i got the app, a sample CD and PDF manual. i paid $150 for acid 5 boxed...i got the app, a sample CD, an extra sample cd in the genre of my choice, 3 kickass virtual synths, a paper manual, and nearly all the stuff i wanted to add to AP4. sounds like a fair deal to me.
Subject:RE: Now i'm mad. I feel as if Sony is trying to cheat me. Reply by: jbow Date:11/30/2004 9:22:21 PM I complained to Sony and they sent me an email offering me another 25% off...so, if you want it ...ask for it. I think it's like 224.00 now for me to upgrade from AMusic 3.0 to APro 5. Now though, after reading stuff, i'm wondering if it's too buggy and maybe I should wait? I think i'll wait until January...after Christmas, more money, maybe some fixes. J

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