Layla Users - Cure for "Phasy" sounding input monitoring

PeterVred wrote on 11/22/2004, 1:00 PM
Layla Users ONLY:

I have read threads from even the SF staff about the phasey sound of vocals when using input monitor, and I have accepted it and lived with it.

However, over the weekend during a session, I got to thinking about redundant software in my system and how that might effect the sound. I have Echo console loaded on my computer which if I am correct, is required to use the Layla card. So DURING a vocal dub, I opened Echo console and MUTED the analog track that the vocal was passing thru...miraculously, the phasey sound disappeared! ( I then tried muting master levels which muted the sound altogether...it DIDN'T however, mute the the track i was recording, it was there on playback!)

Input monitor now sounds perfectly normal and I am blissful. There are still problems with input monitor not working at times...I am waiting to see if this fix cures the other things as well.

I hope this works for you as well if you were living with that phase. Let me know how it goes for you!

Pete

Comments

pwppch wrote on 11/22/2004, 4:04 PM
I have seen (and heard) this many times. Basically you were telling the Layla to hardware monitor the input and telling Vegas to also input monitor things. This caused the phase effect.

This setting/state could be cause by another ASIO based tool telling the ASIO driver to do Direct Input Monitoring or the Echo ASIO configuration panel having the Enable ASIO direct Monitoring checked.

Peter
PeterVred wrote on 11/23/2004, 5:22 AM
Peter,
Thanks for confirming! I wonder why no one ever mentioned this to me on my posts last year?

Also, can you tell me why my input monitor sounds "digital grungy" at times? Never happens on an original tracking session, but upon future dubbing sessions after computer has been turned off/on. It sounds like some distortion setting has been applied to the vocal. When it happens I try rebooting, but does not cure.

I am hoping muting the Echo console inputs cures this also, but if it's something else that you heard about, please let me know.
thanx!
pete
PeterVred wrote on 11/28/2004, 12:39 PM
PCH
About the Distorted/Grungy sounding input monitor;
muting Echo console did not cure the grungies. Why does input monitor work SO well on the original recording session, then refuses to work on ANY dub sessions???
I can open a new project and input monitor works like a champ, but when i try to dub into AnY existing session...NO GO.
What the hey??

I've double checked all settings:
recording /dubbing at 48K/24bit
tried disabling "Enable ASIO direct monitoring", no change.

What is the difference between original tracking sessions and later overdubs?

Please....Vegas is great otherwise.
pwppch wrote on 11/28/2004, 2:41 PM
We are unable to reproduce this problem.

Peter
Rednroll wrote on 11/28/2004, 6:48 PM
Which input are you recording through on the Layla? If you are recording through any of the digital inputs then you must set the clock source to "s/pdif" in the echo console, so that the layla is using the external word clock of the source that the audio is coming from. If you are recording using the analog inputs then you should make sure the echo console is clock is set to "internal". For your grungy sound, it sounds like you're not following the basic rules of wordclock, therefore getting wordclock drift, causing distortion in the audio signal.

Here's some basic rules to go by when using digital I/O. There can only be one master clock generator, which should always be the source of where the audio is originating from. When playing back from Vegas and sending the audio out one of the digital outputs, make sure the Echo Console "input clock" is set to "internal", and if you are sending that signal to something like a DAT recorder, then the Dat recorder must be set to "External" clock. When recording audio coming in on the digital input, make sure the clock source (ie "input clock") on the echo console is set to s/pdif. The clock source where the audio is originating from must be set to "internal". If you are recording on the analog inputs of the Layla, then make sure the echo console clock is set to "internal".
PeterVred wrote on 11/29/2004, 7:17 AM
Thanks Red for your advice, and PCM for your research,

I Use both digital (Via blackface ADAT & lightpipe) inputs and analog inputs when tracking.
Generally sending the drumkit thru my ADAT, then thru lightpipe into Layla digital in.
All other tracks go directly to Layla analog ins.
I have Echo console set to "ADAT" wordclock for this.

The last session, that I am using for test purposes, I ran ONLY analog inputs.
However, I DID leave the Echo Console wordclock to ADAT
rather than changing it to internal. That could be my problem.
I will check it when I get home tonight.

I have never used the SPDIF jacks...

Up till now, I have always left the wordclock setting on ADAT.
If I remember correctly I tried changing it to internal once, and got bad (no sound) results. But that was when recording using the ADAT lightpipe.

I still can't understand why wordclock set to ADAT would monitor correctly in the first session, but not later. But rather than ponder this, I will just try your suggestion.

I will pray that switching wordclock to internal fixes my problem.

Thanks a bunch!
farss wrote on 11/29/2004, 6:38 PM
No audio guru here but I've had a very similar problem with my lowly Firewire-410 on my laptop, recordings were absolutely distorted horrendously. I eventually tracked the problem down to running ASIO and the SoundMax drivers. Now the really annoying thing is WInXP seems to enable the SoundMax stuff after a reboot if the 410 isn't there, major pain for a mobile setup but I guess I can live with it.
Bob.
drbam wrote on 11/29/2004, 7:35 PM
The digital mode switch should be selected ADAT optical and the clock set to Internal in the Echo console. The optical (lightpipe) out from the Layla should route to your ADAT optical input. This makes the Layla the master clock. The blackface ADAT's clocks were really crappy and would tend to drift a lot so its not surprising that you're having some problems. You'll have to experiment to see if this fixes the "phasy" input monitoring but regardless, I would NEVER use a blackface ADAT clock as a master if you've got something better and the Layla's clock is light year's better!

drbam
PeterVred wrote on 11/30/2004, 5:27 AM
Thanks for the comments guys!

I checked Echo console: wordclock WAS set to INTERNAL...Digital In WAS set to ADAT. However the ADATS are not powered up and running for this last session or the dub session.

When I fired up vegas and went to test a vocal dub last night, I got NO SOUND at all from input monitor. Then I remembered I had Unchecked the "Allow ASIO direct monitoring " box in prefs The other day when working on this.

I checked it, and closed vegas, rebooted, reopened vegas and tried a vocal...NO distortion this time! Great!

So I went to bed last night, got up this morning and tried it again. This time there is just a hint of distortion on a vocal dub. I don't think I've cured it all, but it's certainly much better.

Maybe it is my imagination, maybe there was that "hint" of distortion there last night and it was so subtle compared to the horrendous grunge before that I thought it was perfect now.
But what an improve ment.

I will keep after it....keeps those tips coming!