Comments

farss wrote on 11/23/2004, 1:51 AM
I'm no expert but I think the answer is yes and no!
On the one level if you just capture something with 10 bit res and then chop off two bits the result will be exactly the same. However if you apply some intelligence during the conversion then you do pick up a benefit. This applies to all digitial sampling, whether it's for telemetry, audio or video.
For example even though audio CDs are only 16 bit res recording at 24 bits means more can be done in post, you can dial in more gain before you hit the noise floor. However much the same can be done during the recording stage by riding levels or using compression.
Same applies to video although it's a lot more complex as significant compression is required due to bandwidth limitations.
Video cameras internally process data at more than 8 bits, anything from 10 to 14 bits, this is one reason why the DVX 100 can turn out better pictures, the cameras logic has more data to work with so by adjusting gamma in the camera you get to control how much detail there is in the blacks although there's loss in other areas of detail.
So yes a camera that records at 10 bit res is going to give you more data to work with in post prior to downconversion. Just remember though that's 4 times the data rate that the CPU has to handle.
Bob.
BJ_M wrote on 11/23/2004, 7:48 AM
you will sometimes find you have to dither the images -- it is best choice to do the conversion in shake or fusion (or prob. AE) before hand .. but not an absolute necessity ..

Laurence wrote on 11/23/2004, 8:03 AM
What it has to do with is rounding. Digital is binary, so rounding is always down. The extra bits are just lopped off without any regard to whether they were high or low. Dithering algorythms add a measured amount of noise to the signal. The noise added to the signal will cause some of the values to be rounded up instead of down. People worry about adding noise to their signal, but you have to remember that at that low level, the "noise" ends up being sampled merly as a "1" or a "0". You really aren't adding noise, you're just rounding some last digits up instead of down. The end result is extremely subtle. So subtle that I myself can rarely see or hear it, but hey it's available and theoretically better so why not use it!
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 11/23/2004, 12:44 PM
well here's the deal, the DVX100 can capture 12 bit throught this andromeda box that is being created. then it dumps it into a hard drive as TIFF Format images that can then me compiled into a video file. But if I can't take advantage of the improved recordings in Vegas I may have to go to something else for the higher quality.
Spot|DSE wrote on 11/23/2004, 1:25 PM
The HDV-Z1U can capture 14 bit. But that's not what it spits out. You're barking up the wrong tree, IMO.
Just because the cam acquires at 10, 12, 14, or 16 bit doesn't mean you have to edit at that level. The DVX acquires at 12 bit, but it spits OUT 8 bit. So where do you get the 10 bits in the pipe with regard to that cam?
10 bit is great. Is it enough to hang up using Vegas? Heck no, not by a LONG shot.
farss wrote on 11/23/2004, 1:25 PM
Yes BUT, you can grade the images into 8 bit res.
This is just the same as recording audio at 24 bit and mixing in 24 bit but outputing as 16 bit.
You could for example use PS with the high end plugs I think to manipulate (read grade) the 10 bit data into an 8 bit space first.
The same thing happens during say a telecine transfer, by controlling the amount of light going through the film and various other electronic manipulations a quite acceptable 8 bit res image can be extracted from the film. This why traditionally film was color timed, there was no electronic systems that could handle the vast amounts of data to work at higher res. Now with film scanning and DIs this can be done, still very expensive.
Bob.
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 11/23/2004, 4:21 PM
I don't intend to quit using Vegas, but if I have to learn a whole new system just to make a 10 or 12 bit video, I don't really like it. Is it possible for Vegas to be patched in to 10 or 12 bit editing? If so, they could just sell this as an "add on" package or something. Then I don't have to learn a lot a whole new software, but they would make a little more money.

Anyway, if it's possible, I'd want it available, if it's possible.
BJ_M wrote on 11/23/2004, 4:46 PM
why do you want this anyway ? do you use D5-HD (which still is only 4:2:2, but 10bit) or print to film with .cin 10log or something along those lines (also highly detailed cgi)? And do you have 10bit source files to begin with ?
FrigidNDEditing wrote on 11/23/2004, 5:06 PM
mostly, the dynamic range is my biggest desire.