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SonyEPM : Connect HDV questions
Former user
wrote on 11/21/2004, 7:58 AM
Comments
Spot|DSE
wrote on 11/21/2004, 8:57 AM
I'm not EPM, but will tell you that the Connect HD intermediary uses a proprietary codec to convert the TS information to an avi containing a 2-GOP interframe structure. It edits much like DV, and isn't hard on the proc like uncompressed or m2t files are. I can get a full 29.97 out of my laptop with this stuff.
A 20 second m2t is 70 meg, in the Cineform avi, it's 230 meg, and nearly 4 gig for the uncompressed version. I don't know if that helps you put filesize in perspective or not.
IMO, currently Cineform is the ONLY way to fly. Uncompressed and m2t streams give maybe 5-8 fps performance. Cineform provides 29.97 performance even with 2 streams. Not a hard choice for 150.00
A 20 second m2t is 70 meg, in the Cineform avi, it's 230 meg, and nearly 4 gig for the uncompressed version. I don't know if that helps you put filesize in perspective or not.
IMO, currently Cineform is the ONLY way to fly. Uncompressed and m2t streams give maybe 5-8 fps performance. Cineform provides 29.97 performance even with 2 streams. Not a hard choice for 150.00
B_JM
wrote on 11/21/2004, 9:18 AM
or - as an alternative .. converting the HDV files to Huffyuv is free and also runs full speed, it would have fairly large file sizes ...
The PICVideo wavelet codec also runs full speed, but isnt free but does offer smaller files sizes (about the same as Connect HD) .. both of the above are lossless codecs and work very well in vegas. Conversion is extremly fast - the PICvideo is also SMP aware for encoding and decoding ..
The PICVideo wavelet codec also runs full speed, but isnt free but does offer smaller files sizes (about the same as Connect HD) .. both of the above are lossless codecs and work very well in vegas. Conversion is extremly fast - the PICvideo is also SMP aware for encoding and decoding ..
tnw2933
wrote on 11/21/2004, 9:33 AM
Spot,
I notice that you have stated that you are getting 29.97 fps playback of the Cineform avi's in Vegas on playback. I am running ConnectHD (beta) and Vegas 5.0b on a 2.8 GHZP4 with 2 Gb or RAM. When I play tthe Cineform avi (captured from my Sony HDR-FX1) in Vegas from the EXplorer window or from the Media Pool window, it plays at 29.97 fps. Howeer, when I drag the Cineform avi clip up on to the Vegas 5.0b timeline, it plays at 8-12 fps (No overlays or other things present in the Timeline that would slow up playback). I am sure I am missing somehting here, but can you help me understand this difference in play back rates in the timeline vs. in the Explorer window in Vegas? It's not a big deal, but I am curious why I am seeing this difference.
Tom
I notice that you have stated that you are getting 29.97 fps playback of the Cineform avi's in Vegas on playback. I am running ConnectHD (beta) and Vegas 5.0b on a 2.8 GHZP4 with 2 Gb or RAM. When I play tthe Cineform avi (captured from my Sony HDR-FX1) in Vegas from the EXplorer window or from the Media Pool window, it plays at 29.97 fps. Howeer, when I drag the Cineform avi clip up on to the Vegas 5.0b timeline, it plays at 8-12 fps (No overlays or other things present in the Timeline that would slow up playback). I am sure I am missing somehting here, but can you help me understand this difference in play back rates in the timeline vs. in the Explorer window in Vegas? It's not a big deal, but I am curious why I am seeing this difference.
Tom
B_JM
wrote on 11/21/2004, 9:36 AM
does your project properties match the connect HD properties ? If it doesn't , what you have seen will happen ...
Spot|DSE
wrote on 11/21/2004, 10:27 AM
Also be sure your aspect is correctly set on the media to 1.333 and upperfield first. Preview in Preview/Auto, for best experience.
tnw2933
wrote on 11/21/2004, 2:32 PM
Spot and BJM,
Thanks for the sugestions. I did make those changes. I now have the Project Properties>Video set as 720 X 480, upper field first, aspect ratio of 1.333 and frame rate of 29.970. Unfotunately all this did was to add black bars along the left and right sides of the image in the preview window (which is 320 X 160, and the frame rate on timeline playback is still 9-10 fps. If you have any other sugestions, I would appreciate hearing them. Thank you both again.
Tom
Thanks for the sugestions. I did make those changes. I now have the Project Properties>Video set as 720 X 480, upper field first, aspect ratio of 1.333 and frame rate of 29.970. Unfotunately all this did was to add black bars along the left and right sides of the image in the preview window (which is 320 X 160, and the frame rate on timeline playback is still 9-10 fps. If you have any other sugestions, I would appreciate hearing them. Thank you both again.
Tom
B_JM
wrote on 11/21/2004, 2:42 PM
yes it does
B_JM
wrote on 11/21/2004, 3:21 PM
that doesnt sound like the project properties of a HDV clip at all .. least not the ones i have seen ..
Astronuts
wrote on 11/21/2004, 3:23 PM
My experience is the same as tnw2933's. Spot, that must be some laptop you're running there! Granted, my system isn't as spec'd as it should be, but the performance of Cineform/Vegas (or lack thereof) has promted me to pusue as upgrade. I looked at the 8-15 fps playback on the timeline and said 'well, I guess I need over 3ghz to run this hdv stuff'. So I'm in the process of spending money. ..
tnw2933
wrote on 11/21/2004, 3:58 PM
BJM,
I selected Proeprties on these clips which were captured using the beta ConnectHD software from my HDR-FX1 via firewire. The clip properties show 1440X1080X24 and so I have now put that into the Project Properties dialog box. I have selected upper field first, and an aspect of 1.333. I now no longer have black bars in my Preview window but the playback is still only about 10-11 fps. I am at a loss as to what to try next.
Anyone have any ideas?
Tom
I selected Proeprties on these clips which were captured using the beta ConnectHD software from my HDR-FX1 via firewire. The clip properties show 1440X1080X24 and so I have now put that into the Project Properties dialog box. I have selected upper field first, and an aspect of 1.333. I now no longer have black bars in my Preview window but the playback is still only about 10-11 fps. I am at a loss as to what to try next.
Anyone have any ideas?
Tom
B_JM
wrote on 11/21/2004, 4:37 PM
when you open project properties, go the the far right of the template at the top and there is a folder, hover yoru mouse over it and it will say 'match media settings' ..
click this and go to where your HDV file is located (the connect HD file) and select "open" ..
now your project properties match the connect HD properties and if still plays slow (other than a hardware issue) it is a time line or output setting/filter/transition etc ..
click this and go to where your HDV file is located (the connect HD file) and select "open" ..
now your project properties match the connect HD properties and if still plays slow (other than a hardware issue) it is a time line or output setting/filter/transition etc ..
tnw2933
wrote on 11/21/2004, 5:55 PM
BJM,
Many thanks for your help. I did as you suggested. It did not seem to change anything beyond the last settings that I had entered into project properties, but I clicked "apply" and then played a clip (no transitions, filters, etc.) on the timeline and it still plays at about 9-10 fps. I suppose it must be a hardward issue. My video card is an nVidia GeForece 4 MX400 card which I thought should be fast enough to handle Vegas but perhaps not. Certainly the procesor at 2.8 GHZ should not be limiting. The Cineform Connect HDConnect clips are on a Western Digital 250 GB external firewire drive. I wonder if that could be rate limiting?
Again, thank you for your help. I have learned a lot from all of this even if it has not solved the problem.
Tom
Many thanks for your help. I did as you suggested. It did not seem to change anything beyond the last settings that I had entered into project properties, but I clicked "apply" and then played a clip (no transitions, filters, etc.) on the timeline and it still plays at about 9-10 fps. I suppose it must be a hardward issue. My video card is an nVidia GeForece 4 MX400 card which I thought should be fast enough to handle Vegas but perhaps not. Certainly the procesor at 2.8 GHZ should not be limiting. The Cineform Connect HDConnect clips are on a Western Digital 250 GB external firewire drive. I wonder if that could be rate limiting?
Again, thank you for your help. I have learned a lot from all of this even if it has not solved the problem.
Tom
B_JM
wrote on 11/21/2004, 6:17 PM
the video card would not mater (in this case) , it MIGHT be the external firewire ...
if you know how -- you might (as a trial) install the external drive as an internal drive and see if it makes a change .. or just copy part of the clip to your local drive ...
SPOT (i think) has said he has edited HDV clip from external drive though ... and i know that huffyuv 1080p30 clips will play from a nothing special firewire drive as long as the drive is 7200 it seems (had some issues with maxtor 5400 drives/firewire cases)
if you know how -- you might (as a trial) install the external drive as an internal drive and see if it makes a change .. or just copy part of the clip to your local drive ...
SPOT (i think) has said he has edited HDV clip from external drive though ... and i know that huffyuv 1080p30 clips will play from a nothing special firewire drive as long as the drive is 7200 it seems (had some issues with maxtor 5400 drives/firewire cases)
Spot|DSE
wrote on 11/21/2004, 6:41 PM
My laptop is a 2.6 gig w/1 gig of RAM. On the Boxx system I demoed for the release of the Z1, I was able to get 2 streams at 29.97. Keep in mind, these aren't machines used for mail, etc. So, they're pretty dang tweaked and very efficient. But, I've also seen a desktop VAIO and a standard off-the-shelf system running 29.97 with the Cineform, but that was only one stream, no titles, no correction, nothing. Just the plain-vanilla avi.
Preview/Auto is the key. Not Preview Full. Then size the window to a half-size view, so it's running at the same size as a 720 x 480 preview.
Preview/Auto is the key. Not Preview Full. Then size the window to a half-size view, so it's running at the same size as a 720 x 480 preview.
farss
wrote on 11/21/2004, 6:47 PM
See SPOTs post above re preview window size and res, even with DV25 this makes a big difference to the amount of CPU load, also check for things like have scopes open with RT update, that also can kill even DV25 playback.
Bob.
Bob.
JohnnyRoy
wrote on 11/21/2004, 8:01 PM
I just tried what Spot suggested and on my desktop PC (P4 3.0Ghz 1GB memory) I’m getting full frame-rate (29.97) in Preview (Auto) mode with a preview window size of up to 640x360. I had to manually set the aspect to 1.333. At the next auto size above that (960x540) the frame rate drops to 14fps but that’s to be expected.
So I can get 29.97 all the way up to 640x360 with a 1440x1080 interlaced AVI clip using the CineForm HD codec. (sweet)
~jr
So I can get 29.97 all the way up to 640x360 with a 1440x1080 interlaced AVI clip using the CineForm HD codec. (sweet)
~jr
SonyEPM
wrote on 11/22/2004, 9:30 AM
"Is Connect HD the only capture/print solution Sony will offer or is there a pending Vegas 5 update?"
Connect HD for Vegas is the go-to solution for HDV for now and if you have or are getting an HDV camera of any type this is by far your best option. We do plan on releasing a Vegas 5 update fairly soon that has some HDV enhancements (templates, HDV profiles, render settings) but capture in the near term (pre-Vegas 6) will require a 3rd party tool like Cineform. Connect HD will not come free with any Vegas 5 update, but we have worked out special pricing for HDV/Vegas users.
Connect HD for Vegas is the go-to solution for HDV for now and if you have or are getting an HDV camera of any type this is by far your best option. We do plan on releasing a Vegas 5 update fairly soon that has some HDV enhancements (templates, HDV profiles, render settings) but capture in the near term (pre-Vegas 6) will require a 3rd party tool like Cineform. Connect HD will not come free with any Vegas 5 update, but we have worked out special pricing for HDV/Vegas users.
BJ_M
wrote on 11/22/2004, 9:44 AM
huffyuv works perfect with XP, but you have to install it (right click on inf file and select install)
always check off "use rgb for output" in options ...
always check off "use rgb for output" in options ...
JohnnyRoy
wrote on 11/22/2004, 10:28 AM
> I downloaded Huffyuv & I get nothing. Is it compatible with XP?
It might also be helpful to point out that Huffyuv is a CODEC it is not a program. There is nothing to see. After you install it, you must load the M2T file into Vegas and then select File > Render As... and select Huffyuv as the AVI codec to render to. Then start a new project and bring the Huffyuv encoded AVI file back onto the timeline. It’s a way to get the M2T file to an AVI file. Since Huffyuv is a lossless codec, it will be a very large file.
~jr
It might also be helpful to point out that Huffyuv is a CODEC it is not a program. There is nothing to see. After you install it, you must load the M2T file into Vegas and then select File > Render As... and select Huffyuv as the AVI codec to render to. Then start a new project and bring the Huffyuv encoded AVI file back onto the timeline. It’s a way to get the M2T file to an AVI file. Since Huffyuv is a lossless codec, it will be a very large file.
~jr
tnw2933
wrote on 11/24/2004, 6:02 PM
In previous posts on this thread, I pointed out that I could not get the Cineform .avi's captured from my HDR-FX1 with ConnectHD (beta version) to play back from the Vegas 5.0b timeline at 29.97 fps on my 2.8 GHz P4. Well yesterday I picked up a new dual 3.6 GHz Xeon workstation equipped with an nVidia GeForce 6600 GT video card and 2 GB of RAM. I tried the same Cineform clips on that workstation and it would only play them back at about 19-20 fps - faster than the 9-12 fps of my 2.8 GHz PC, but still not the 29.97 fps that others have reported.
After much experimenting, I believe I have found the solution. My Dynamic RAM Preview in Vegas Properties was set to 16 MB (the default). I increased this to 500 MB and the Cineform clips immediately played back at 29.97 fps from the timeline. I really did not expect the setting of Dynamic Ram Preview to impact the playback speed of clips in the Preview window, but it certainly did.
Tom
After much experimenting, I believe I have found the solution. My Dynamic RAM Preview in Vegas Properties was set to 16 MB (the default). I increased this to 500 MB and the Cineform clips immediately played back at 29.97 fps from the timeline. I really did not expect the setting of Dynamic Ram Preview to impact the playback speed of clips in the Preview window, but it certainly did.
Tom
busterkeaton
wrote on 11/24/2004, 7:52 PM
That looks like an important thing to note.
Spot, perhaps this should go in the HDV FAQ or the Vegas subsection of it.
Spot, perhaps this should go in the HDV FAQ or the Vegas subsection of it.
Spot|DSE
wrote on 11/24/2004, 9:12 PM
Consider it added to the Vegas and HDV FAQ's. Thanks for pointing that out. Mine is always at max, unless I'm using Boris, so I didn't consider this as an issue.