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Subject:An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Posted by: merlyn60
Date:11/2/2004 10:35:47 AM
After looking over the new features for Acid 5, it seems to me (and many others on this forum), that very little if anything was done to better the midi capabilities of Acid. For me, thats a large let down since I was hoping that we would get a major midi overhaul. However, since rewire seems to be fully implemented in Acid 5, why doesn't Sony simply create an additional smaller midi app that is made specifically to rewire with Acid??? This way the Acid Loop Paradigm doesn't have to be altered and we could get an acceptable way to use midi with Acid without having to bog down your system with another full blown music application (Cubase, Reason, etc) that handles midi the way it should be handled being active on your system along with Acid. Or Better yet, just give us proper midi in Vegas since the Acid paradigm doesn't apply there. Responses? |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:11/2/2004 11:18:36 AM
I personally wouldn't mind if SPD made a dedicated MIDI sequencer. If anyone can do it as elegantly, it's them. Never say never. Or maybe keep it in a separate window, kinda like the bus tracks view? (Red had this idea, so the credit goes to him.) MIDI was never really a focal point as far as ACID and Vegas are concerned. I never really did expect much in the way of MIDI. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date:11/2/2004 11:22:34 AM
I would agree that adding MIDI to Vegas makes the most sense. It already has the ability to punch in/out and is multi-track. This is logically where MIDI support belongs. Then just add ReWire support to Vegas 6 and we’re all set. Of course, the MIDI editor in ACID is an OPT plug-in. Someone could just write a better MIDI editor for ACID without Sony getting involved at all.(but that still won't give me punch in/out which is my biggest feature request) ~jr |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: dabb
Date:11/2/2004 11:56:24 AM
That would take Sony 2 or more years to complete! dabb |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: merlyn60
Date:11/3/2004 9:36:39 AM
As best as I understand the situation, the Midi OPT Plug In of Acid still has to follow the Acid Loop Paradigm, so as long as its a "plug in" of Acid, it would be limited by the Acid Loop guidlines. A seperate rewired app wouldn't have to follow these rules and could just be specifically for midi (no audio) so it would be "lean" and not bog down your system. |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:11/4/2004 7:41:37 AM
Yes!!! Yes!!!! Yes!!!!! I love this idea....and yes I was the first to suggest it, but I'm glad to see others supporting this same idea. This is how I currently work with Acid and midi sequencing. I have my dedicated midi sequencer on 1 PC, while I have Acid on another PC and I sync the two together through midi beat clock. The only problem is that in working this way I'm running into limitations due to newer technology advancements like VSTi and Rewire. Yes, Acid has VSTi capabilities and Rewire. The problem is that for me to take advantage of this technology, I need a powerful midi sequencer, which Acid is not and my midi sequencer does not support VSTi or Rewire, plus it does not run on Windows XP, so they can't be installed on the same PC. From a Sony business sense I think this is the best idea also. People want to see midi sequencing in Vegas and more midi sequencing capabilities in Acid. Well if midi sequencing gets put into Vegas, don't you think people would start to expect further development on the Acid side? So now Sony would have to spend time dually developing two midi sequencer feature sets. Instead I rather see them spending time on a dedicated midi sequencer that could work with both Acid and Vegas through Rewire and midi sync functionality. The midi sequencer then wouldn't have to be limited like other programs, where it has to also coincide with the audio feature paradigms of that program. The midi sequencer then can therefore be well focused in it's functionality. Just like Acid is focused and specialized in Loop sequencing, and Vegas is specialized in DAW like features, we could have an app which is specialized and focused in midi sequencing. Then they could all be used together through Rewire sync in a super uber app paradigm. This would also open further doors where other users that use apps like Nuendo, Protools, and even Cubase and Sonar, where they could choose to Rewire this midi sequencer into their app of choice and get a better dedicated midi sequencing app running along with their app of choice. It would also open the doors to users who are just looking to do midi sequencing and don't want all the other DAW like features getting in the way. This idea is really a step back in current application thinking, but sometimes you need to take a step back to move forward. So if I could have a dedicated midi sequencer with VSTi's functionality along with Rewire audio and sync options so if I chose to use them together with Acid, Vegas, Protools, and Nuendo or if I just want to do midi sequencing without the other audio features getting in the way of my creative workflow then I could. To me it's really a Win-Win situation. Sony please listen to this advice. You currently don't have any pro level midi sequencing solution in any of your apps and this is something that is needed for music creation. You see, even us users that are beating each other up over the fact Acid didn't get more midi sequencing features can agree with this solution. It's really a best of both worlds solution!!!! |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: dbOS://00
Date:11/4/2004 9:09:35 AM
Brilliant idea, do you envision the dedicated midi sequencer to be something like freestyle, but with VSTi support? Truly this would be a welcomed addition to the line-up. |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date:11/4/2004 9:31:05 AM
Have you every taken a look at Project 5? This is what Project 5 is supposed to be. It has no Audio recording just audio loop playback. It’s a MIDI sequencer with built in instruments, VSTi, and ReWire. It sounds exactly like what you’re describing. It even allows you to place loop markers in the MIDI file and will loop between the markers. So you drag the event like in ACID and it loops just between the markers! I downloaded the demo and was impressed by what I saw. I wish ACID had some of these MIDI features. ~jr |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:11/4/2004 3:41:56 PM
"do you envision the dedicated midi sequencer to be something like freestyle, but with VSTi support?" Actually I envision it to be more like Opcode's Studio Vision with VSTi support and Rewire capabilities. I did check out Freestyle though and this reminds me a lot of Studio Vision, just not as powerful. JohnnyRoy, Thanks for the Project5 suggestion. I'm going to download the demo and seriously consider this as an option. I downloaded their introduction video on Project5 and it does look alot like what I'm asking for. There's a few things I didn't see compared to Studio Visions sequencing power like a Notation View, or a List Editor but there's a lot of simularities. Here's some interesting links regarding midi and Studio Vision in general and how Opcode was one of the Pioneers who led the computer music production revolution by providing a very simple user interface yet providing powerful versatile features at the same time. Sound similar to other products we use? Like Acid? Studio Vision was to midi sequencing as Acid is to Loop sequencing in my opinion, and why I haven't been able to break myself away from it when I try other midi sequencers and run into their limitations that Vision doesn't have and their clumsy UI. I'll give Project 5 a whirl though, it looks promising. Check out the second link below and read a past review of Vision and you'll see a lot of things in there that Acid users are looking for today, all in an intuitive UI. Computer music Midi Timeline http://www.occ.cccd.edu/faculty/jmcenary/timeline/timeline.htm Studio Vision Pro 4.0 overview http://www.macaddict.com/issues/9812/rev.svisionpro4.html Opcode's History http://www.opcode.com/news/press/backgrounder.shtml The only part of Opcode's History the above link is missing is where Gibson Guitars purchased them and then run a lucrative company into the ground. I love the sound of a good Gibson Les Paul guitar, but everytime I see someone smash when on stage, I get a grin on my face and scream...."Jimmy Page/Slash.....Smash another one for Opcode!!!!" "Ace Frehley, light another one onfire, but this time make sure you throw it into the Gibson head quarters after you do......those Gibson b*stards!!!" |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: ozzborn
Date:11/4/2004 4:44:32 PM
i dont have any expierence with opcode but cubase sx with midi pluggins is hot. something like that rewired in to acid would be incredible. or if reason 3.o had external midi support it would make my day. |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:11/4/2004 6:50:32 PM
Hey guys, What is freestyle? I went to kvr, but I couldn't find anything. Like red, I miss vision (used the mac version) and I've got to find something for midi. I'm now looking at Home Studio, but I already miss VSTi (without a wrapper). I think I could get around that eventually by using dx versions of everything except cameleon. I guess I could use a wrapper for it. I don't know... I'm just looking. |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: merlyn60
Date:11/4/2004 9:36:50 PM
I'm glad to see that there are other people out there who think this idea has merit (didn't mean to steal your shine red, just never saw you post about it...lol). I've heard of Project 5, but I've never tried it out. I may have to give it a spin. Is it processor heavy? I also think that Freestyle isn't powerful enough. If anyone else out there has any suggestion, let them be heard. |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:11/5/2004 11:12:36 AM
"What is freestyle?" Freestyle is made by Mark Of the Unicorn....you know Digital Performer and all that. Personally, I don't like MOTU in a lot of aspects because they seem to develop for the MAC side and PC always seems to be an after thought. But then again I'm being hypocritical, as I'm praising Opcode and they where in the same boat. But then again, I've never had any bad experience with Opcode's products be it MAC or PC, but have had issues and currently still do with MOTU midi drivers on my older midi interfaces from them. None the less, you can check it out here: www.motu.com |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:11/5/2004 1:43:57 PM
MOTU! Now I remember! Sorry. |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:11/5/2004 1:50:49 PM
I played with Home Studio last night and I like it. I think I could learn to use it well. That said, some of the thinking is a little strange to me. For example, the metronome can only trigger external midi notes. Then there is the DX soft synths. I'll need to get synths that come in both DX and VSTi formats. I guess I'll have to look into a wrapper for cameleon. But the edit windows look pretty good, so I think I can learn to use this... but I still like Sony's way of thinking. |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date:11/5/2004 2:17:24 PM
You might want to check eBay for used copies of SONAR 3 that are going for half the retail price of Home Studio now that SONAR 4 is out. You can’t register them and qualify for upgrades because Cakewalk has a strict policy that they will not transfer ownership, but there is no activation or anything so they will continue to work fine. ~jr |
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Subject:RE: An Idea For Acid 5 and Midi
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:11/9/2004 9:40:33 AM
I posted some questions for Project5 users in cakewalk's forums. Thought others might be able to benefit from these. Project5 questions posted: Q1. Rewire capabilities. Can P5 act as a Rewire Host as well as a Rewire Slave or is it strictly limited to one or the other? A1: Slave Only Q2. Input Quantization- Can I enable input quantization so that when I play my midi controler, P5 will automatically quantize the midi input and apply it to the recorded midi track? A2: No, but sort of ,,,you can step record live input Q3. List editor- Does P5 have a list editor, where I can edit the Attack, Release, Velocity, Duration, through list editor functions? A3: NO, but there is one in Sonar Q4. Sys Exclusive Record/Playback. Can I record System exclusive messages by record enabling a midi track and then doing a midi dump from an external midi device, like an FX processor. Then also, be able to play that track back and dump those SYSEX messages to my FX processor. A4: NO Q5. Program changes. Can I record program changes on a midi track and send them to external devices? A5: UNANSWERED Q6. Notation View/Editor. Does P5 have a Notation View, where I can print sheet music and also edit midi notes in the notation view? A6: NO, Sonar does Q7. Midi clocks. Can P5 send midi beat clock and smpte timecode to external sequencers? Does P5 have external beat clock sync and external smpte timecode sync? A7: Only as a master clock generator, but can't slave to midi clocks. Q8. External keyboard/patch selection. Does P5 allow me to select a specific Keyboard connected on a midi port, then change patches through a patch selector. A8: NO, Sonare does, Project 5 is like one big virtual synth. Q9. Song mode/Step Record function. With P5 can I create seperate midi sequences like INTRO, VERSE, CHORUS, BRIDGE, then record enable a single track and assemble a song with these seperate sequences? A9: UNSURE "p5 is a extremely intuitive live pattern based midi sequencer ,, it's all about da patterns" Q10. External Sequence Record. Can I have an External sequence, which has different parts on seperate midi channels and have P5 record all these parts and seperate them into seperate tracks corresponding to the midi channel as they appear from the external sequencer? A10: UNANSWERED Q11. Track loop/Sequence Loop. Can I create a 2 bar loop track, a 3 bar loop track, and a 6 bar loop track, and have each track loop according to it's duration. Then on top of that, if I define the entire sequence composed of those tracks to be 16 bars long, can I have the sequence loop continuously for 16 bars, while each individual track loops according to their individual loop duration? A11: NO DAMN!!! My quest to move away from Studio Vision is getting tougher the more I look around. I guess I just took a lot of the features that I use in Vision for granted and expected something would be compariable by now. Help!!!! |