Subject:Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Posted by: intrigue310

Date:10/16/2004 10:04:02 AM

I've used Logic and there was a quick way to get rid of the tracks that you don't end up using. Well acid saves all the tracks used or not. I wanted to know if there was a way that I could quickly delete the unwanted wavs...rather than going through all of them individually.
Thank You,
I310

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Spirit

Date:10/16/2004 12:38:39 PM

This will be implemented in AP5 via an option in the "save" dialog screen.
.
.
.
I hope :-)

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: MyST

Date:10/17/2004 7:02:11 AM

OK, hobbyist status showing through...

If you have 50 tracks loaded, but you only want 39 of them, how would Acid be able to tell which ones to remove unless you "point them out"?
How does Logic do this?

Just curious.

Mario

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Spirit

Date:10/17/2004 8:50:03 AM

Who knows ? But it can't be too hard since even the "cheapy" app Traktion has the same function.

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: intrigue310

Date:10/17/2004 2:09:20 PM

Logic highlights the tracks you are using in pink.Not sure if i'm saying it properly but it works like this...Say I am making an audio track and I mess up and i decide not to punch in, I just want to do it over again. Well I do it over and I get it right. Well the tracks I used are highlighted and the ones that I left out the project that are still on my harddrive but are not in use are not highlighted. There is an option that I can use that deletes the ones that I am not using. I hope that makes it clear. I'm obviously not too familiar with Acid, just use it for fun with friends...a lil newbie help you know. So if this is possible, can someone let me know. Thanx
I310

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:10/17/2004 5:06:53 PM

This would not work for the majority of users. ACID is a loop based composition tool where you load loops from libraries that you buy. The last thing you would want it to do is delete the loops you were not using because, pretty soon, your libraries would be empty!

I realize from your post that you are recording you own tracks so I understand why you would want to do this. What ACID does have is the opposite of what you want. It has the ability to save all the media being used by a song in one place. So you could save with the option to Copy all media with project, and then save to a new directory and delete the old directory (thus deleting the unused media along with it).

This is not as useful as deleting the unused tracks but it fits better with ACID’s paradigm of assembling loops from various places into one song.

~jr

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: funkstudio

Date:10/21/2004 7:55:48 AM

Here's how I handle that situation...
Your can save as 'project with embedded media each time and it only keeps your current files being used in the project (very easy) or:

#1 I've recognized that the best course to take for a song is to keep all related files in the same folder inside a larger folder holding all of these individual song files. i.e. Songs > Jam A

#2 I save all song files or 'projects' using the feature 'Copy all media with project' : this allows me to not have to worry about losing, destroying, or not having the ability to manipulate a sample permanently without losing the original and keeps things organized well..it does duplicate some files and adds a bit to the storage total overall, but not much if you keep it clean and organized. Here is how I do it:

#3 I like not to save as 'projects saved with embedded media' but it is very usful for the above purpose... Save as a regular 'acid project file' to your songs 'folder' you've set up... When it's time to clean up house and your at a relatively good stopping point in your project, save as a 'project with embedded media' to the same file your project is in...then simply go in and deleted all files except the embedded project file.. reload that file, then save as a regular acid project file (with copy media selected) and then delete the embedded project file... it will eliminate all unused tracks in the project...


Take more to explain that effort in doing it...
hope that helps

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Spirit

Date:10/21/2004 1:30:40 PM

JohnnyRoy, I realise what you say is true, but this is just one of the things that Acid needs to overcome.

It must become more than a loop-based arrangement tool. A dozen cheapie apps can arrange loops.

The type of user who is merely using commercial loops represents the very bottom level of Acid users. May the Gods preserve us if everything in AP5 is skewed exclusively to help them.

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:10/21/2004 3:27:44 PM

Intrigue,
First of all Acid does not have "Punch-in" recording abilities. Everytime you press record in Acid it creates a new track. These individual takes cannot be put onto the same track, to make a composite track. The only way to do this is to individually take each take on each track and trim them. Then you would solo all these tracks and render to a new wave file and import it as a new composite track.

Acid is a loop based sequencer, it is not a multitrack recorder/editor like Logic. If you want a program closer to Logics functionality, then you need to look at Vegas.

Spirit Said:
"It must become more than a loop-based arrangement tool."

Don't count on it, it is the premier loop-based arrangement tool that the other cheapy programs strive to be but will never be at their cheapy price. Also just so you can't say no one ever told you this before, but "ACID is not a MIDI Sequencer................... ACID is not a DAW. ACID is a media looping sequencer." So if you are finding limitations due to what Acid "is not", then you need to look into other tools that better fit into that category. For example, Vegas is a DAW.

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Spirit

Date:10/21/2004 4:39:47 PM

Vegas is a video app with audio capabilities - many of them legacy features from Vegas' deep past. It is not primarily an audio app.

And if people keep on saying "if you want more than loop arranging look elsewhere" then that's exactly what people will do. And they'll find more and more apps that do loops as good as Acid and a whole lot more as well.

I find that attitude of "if you want flexibility look elsewhere" so absurdly defensive and narrow that it leaves me breathless. It is a sure recipe for the end of this app.

If Acid could even get right those things which it already claims to do - such as MIDI sequencing - then it'd be halfway there. And how can you say it's not a MIDI sequencer when one of the big "innovations" in AP4 was MIDI sequencing !? Is it because the MIDI implementation was so hopelessly and woefully bungled that we now claim it wasn't really meant to be counted ?

A painfully honest kick in the guts will be much better for this app than constant evasions and qualifications about what it is and isn't "meant" to do.

Let's see who is in-sync with Sony thinking when AP5 is released....

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:10/22/2004 7:37:57 AM

Spirit,
First off Vegas is not solely a video editing app with audi capabilities, as it is not solely an audio editing app with video editing capabilities. Nor is it's features being developed in one direction more than the other. Vegas had 2 releases (v1& v2) where it was primarily an audio app. v3 and v4 feature sets leaned more heavily on the video side features, afterall it had some catching up to do. V5 was more audio intensive features. Vegas IS truly an app that is ahead of it's time. It IS a multimedia editing app. Please point out another app which is as powerful and as easy to use for doing both audio and video editing, where both types of media follow the same paradigm of editing. Vegas is breaking down barriers with this type of workflow. It's time to start breaking down the barriers in your mind between the differences of a video app and an audio app.

As far as your points about Acid, I agree with you 100% and I have pushed for many of the same things that you are asking for. I'm telling you the facts, there will be no "Let's see who is in-sync with Sony thinking when AP5 is released"

I've been using Acid since v1.0 and have been in sync with it's development pretty closely. When midi was originally implemented into Acid it was because users wanted a way to easily sync their audio tracks with their already midi sequenced tracks, and they wanted to do this in one app without having to worry about syncing midi beat clocks and SMPTE time code. Quite the same way Protools added midi tracks to it's functionality. I'm currently a user who uses an external sequencer to sync Acid just in this way, due to the midi editing limitations in Acid. Yes, I wish Acid was capable of doing every task that my midi sequencer is able to do, so I don't have to worry about doing any syncing connections. Yes, whenever I'm asked by Sony for feature suggestions I heavily lean on future midi sequencing feature sets. "Acid IS a media looping sequencer." Take note of those quotes, they're not mine. So as you incorrectly state about Vegas.....Acid IS a media looping sequencer with midi capabilities. Acid IS a media looping sequencer with video editing capabilities.

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Spirit

Date:10/22/2004 12:31:21 PM

Well I make my living creating multimedia and Vegas 5 for all its stability and video nicities is one of my least-used apps. It is NOT a multimedia app. It would have to be able to import & export the full range of swf versions at the very least to enter that category imho.

And to say it doesn't favour one area over another is absurd. Vegas is a video app. Sure it has some good audio handling but only because it started out as an audio app. I didn't see any big advances in audio from V3 to V5. Even setting a bpm rate is bured. Please educate me if I'm in error !

Nor does all this really do anything to advance the cause of Acid. I desperately want to stay using Acid, but am just waiting for AP5 to see what commitment Sony makes to serious development.

Personally I can live without complex MIDI, I'd far rather it become a powerful audio sequencer, but that's just me. But it does need to be a lot more than a looping app.

To me that'd be like Ford producing the Model-T for 100 years insisting that a radio, heater, airbags, seatbelts & safety glass were outsdie its design paradigm of cheap, simple motor transport !

Well, yes it is, but wake up, the world has changed. Development goes on, the "base level" rises.

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:10/22/2004 1:21:15 PM

"I didn't see any big advances in audio from V3 to V5. Even setting a bpm rate is bured. Please educate me if I'm in error !"

You viewpoint of Vegas is a total misconception, maybe because it's just limited by your particular workflow. Below is a list of "Audio" features added to Vegas since v2.0. Vegas is not just a video editor with nice audio features. Vegas is used by many audio professionals, just for it's audio features. I am one of them, and I hardly ever use the video features but am everyday increasing my Video editing knowledge due to Vegas. Vegas's UI is laid out so all the video features can be hidden and out of the way. I have used many audio programs including Protools, Neve audiophile, Cubase, Cakewalk, Logic Audio, Saw, Nuendo, Samplitude and Cool Edit Pro. Most exstensively before I started using Vegas I was most familiar with a $20k Protools system, and a $50K Neve Audiophile system. Before I started using Vegas I auditioned all the rest of the available audio programs and ensured myself in my choice that I was able to achieve everything that I was able to do in my workflow with Protools and the Audiophile. Vegas was my choice over all the others and it still is today. I've been beta testing Vegas since v2.0 and giving user suggestions on future versions, so you better believe there have been some necessary major audio features added within that time, or else I would have moved onto something else and not wasted my time in giving further suggestions. My feedback was one of the major reasons Vegas got CD redbook authoring features in v3.0 added to it. What other multitrack audio app has that ability? Tell me that, and I'll consider looking at it for my audio needs, otherwise Vegas will remain a major part of my audio editing workflow.

VEGAS 3.0
1-Project trimming/media consolidation
2-Dynamic RAM previews
3-Create and edit Windows Media 8 (.wmv, wma) files, with Web metadata including closed captioning
4-On-the-fly metadata arrangement (import existing script copy and place command markers during playback)
5-Edit Web command templates in XML database format
6-Video CD and multimedia CD burning
7-Red Book CD layout and burning, complete with printable ISRC and UPC codes. Import existing CD Architect projects.
8-Autosave/crash recovery tools
9-CD audio extraction
10-JKL keyboard scrub, and linear timeline scrub
11-Enhanced event grouping
12-Extended control over default track properties
13-Smooth audio and video track envelopes, crossfades, and event envelopes: a whole new sound and look
14-Five audio panning modes, including constant power balance
15-Audio channel control for stereo audio files
16-Invert audio phase for events and tracks
17-Voice-optimized time stretching

VEGAS 4.0
1-5.1 surround mixing tools
2-DirectX® plug-in effect automation
3-Over 30 real-time DirectX® effects
4-ASIO audio driver support
5-Recording input monitoring
6-Master, auxiliary, and assignable effects audio bus tracks
7-Enhanced audio time stretching
8-Improved effects bypass
9-Enhanced ripple editing model
10-Keyboard event trimming
11-Event shuffling
12-Split-screen effect bypass and clipboard previews
13-Split-screen A/B previewing when slip-trimming
14-Pre/post toggle for video event effects
15-Enhanced audio/video scrub speeds
16-Media markers and regions in events
17-Expanded scrub range
18-Preview the cursor position with pre-/post-roll
19-Joystick control of faders, surround panning, and the color wheel controls in the color corrector plug-ins
20-Select events that refer to a specific file in the Media Pool
21-Drag-and-drop transfer of bins between open copies of Vegas
22-AC-3 encoding (requires the Sony Pictures Digital AC-3 Encoder)
23-Application scripting
24-Windows Media 9 support, including surround encoding
25-RealMedia 9
26-Improved CD extraction, burning, and drive support

VEGAS 5.0
1-Support for control surfaces including the Mackie Control Universal.
2-Envelope automation recording.
3-Envelope point thinning.
4-Improved punch-in recording with automatic input monitoring.
5-Improved audio time stretching.
6-ACID loop support on the timeline.
7-ACID time stretching for ACIDized loops.
8-Support for 5.1-channel audio plug-ins on the master bus.
9-Film-style 5.1 surround panning.
10-Downmix monitoring so you can test your 5.1 surround project in different listening environments.
11-Pre/post volume for busses routed to hardware outputs.
12-Bus-to-bus routing.
13-Enhanced interface, including Windows XP theme support.
14-Multiple docking windows.
15-User configurable window layout.
16-Customizable keyboard shortcuts.
17-Subclip creation.
18-Real-time audio/video event reverse.
19-You can now drag the edit cursor to change its position in the timeline and Trimmer window when the Allow edit cursor to be dragged check box on the General tab of the Preferences dialog is selected.
20-A marker tool that you can use to move or delete multiple selected markers.
21-Automation recording for track envelopes and keyframes.
22-Audio volume/opacity event envelope changes are applied to all selected events.
23-Networked rendering.
24-Enhanced application scripting.

Plus, much more enhancements and unlisted features.
Is that enough education yet?

"Well, yes it is, but wake up, the world has changed."

You're telling me to "wake up"?.....uhhhmmmm...but you'll have to excuse me. I was the one who told you that I agree with you 100%. I'm just stating the facts of what Acid is and where it's primary development is focused on. If you think Acid is going to develop into an Albeton Live or some other similar program in v5.0 then it's you who are the one who needs to "wake up". Sonic Foundry/Sony has always leaned towards an "inovative" strategy with it's products. So if you think they're going to start copying features that are in other programs, just because the other programs offer a little bit of everything, but are focused on nothing, then you are wrong. They tend to think outside the box and develop features that no one else offers which makes their product be able to take complex process's and make them very simple.

So what is it that you are expecting to be in Acid 5.0 or else you're jumping ship? I for one don't buy a product today and hope in the future it will be catered to my particular workflow I'm " trying" to achieve. I buy the tools that are available today to get my work done today. If those tools further develop and help out my workflow then I am grateful. You will never see me sitting back and waiting for a product to develop so that it meets my workflow idealism.

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Spirit

Date:10/22/2004 8:51:17 PM

Rednroll, I'm not trying to get into a battle with you. Our opinions on some fundamentals just differ. And my comments weren't directed at you (esp "wake up") as to my feeling of where Sony may be going. My apologies for being unclear.

Interesting though that we seemed to have veered away from Acid as the music app to now be talking about Vegas... That alone speaks volumes about Acid's shortcomings.

But maybe more significant is the number postings in the Vegas "audio" forum. If you use that as a rough measure of its audio use by users then I'd judge Vegas to be a very sorry audio app indeed. Of course that's no scientific poll, but what are measures are there ?

Maybe mentions of Vegas for audio in KvR and similar forums ?

Well, sorry to say tbut there ain't anybody talking about Vegas for audio there.

BUT - since you rate it so highly I really must give it a try for audio :-)

So, back to Acid.

As I said before, if Sony can deliver an efficient 21st century version of the features promised in AP4 then we'd be looking good for start - decent MIDI, decent VSTi hosting, things like the topic of this thread - eliminating unused audio tracks.

You think AP4 was "innovative" ? I think it was a horrendously bungled piece of bug-ridden rubbish. I abandanned AP4 and still use AP3 - and love it. But AP4 did huge damage to Acid's reputation, and it's new MIDI and VSTi hosting features are generally considered to be unusable (do a search on KvR).

But it isn't so much specific features I'm concerned about, but a "shift up" that Acid needs. The loop-only mentality has got to go. Either that or some mighty impressive looping "innovations" that you talk about are needed.

And about buying an app "for today, not what it may do tomorrow". I agree. To do otherwise would be ludicrous.

But the audio app market is dynamic. Advances are made which give producers and composers new tools and abilities. Or ways to achieve complex effects and editing much faster than before.

My horse and cart was just great when I bought it, but I think I'd like a truck and a tractor now like everyone is using thankyou.

If every other app advances, if every other app gets new, useful features and streamlined functionality, but Acid doesn't, well what then ? What do you think the user base will feel as they look at the competition ?

Ableton - or even FL Studio - are always introducing useful & interesting app enhancements.

But it's been a long time between drinks for Acid users - especially if you'e still using AP3 !

-S

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:10/23/2004 9:50:08 AM

"Our opinions on some fundamentals just differ"

This is the part that makes me laugh everytime I read one of your posts. I keep telling you that I agree with you 100% as far as Acid is concerned. I agree it needs a lot of improvements on a lot of it's fundamental features. Some of those features they've already shown they can successfully implement as they are implemented in Vegas. A lot of the points you mention, are almost exact points I've mentioned to Sony. Sony regularly asks on these forums for user suggested features, as they also personally contact beta testers occassionally for suggestions. My last suggestion to them regarding future Vegas/Acid features was at this point of the release of Vegas 5.0,and adding Acid loop features to Vegas, they might as well go the one extra step and combine Vegas and Acid into one uber app. This would elliminate the master tempo limitations you mentioned in Vegas, and it would also elliminate the non-multitrack functionality limitations of Acid as far as recording and editing. Then once that was done I recommend that they focus on the midi sequencing limitations of Acid and went on to list a bunch of those limitations. So as you can see, we are probably saying the exact same things of what we want/expect from the programs. I'm just telling you "how it is". I don't like it anymore than you do, and believe me I've pissed up Sony's back quite a few times regarding this. There's probably a few users in this forum that can vouch for that also. They do listen to everyone's feedback but of course everyone will not be happy and they have their own direction of where the program is being developed. I can tell you for what I use Acid for, I could have probably stopped getting newer versions of Acid at v1.0 and I would still be happy with it, because I use Vegas a lot more than I do Acid. If Acid was my primary app of choice, I would have probably jumped ship a long time ago. I mainly use Acid as a looping sequencer that get's synced via midi beat clock to my midi sequencer. Then when the song is all sequenced, I lay my midi tracks off as audio......where I then run into Acid's limitation of letting me only record 1 track at a time. Then when I'm done with that I run into the problems of being able to export/import my Acid project into Vegas effeciently. I don't use Acid for mixing, recording vocals,rendering to different formats, syncing music to video, 5.1 projects, or even VSTi's. If Acid's midi limitations weren't so overwhelming to me, then I would at least be using the VSTi functionality in Acid. Acid had a midi "Step recording" feature added to it in v4.0. I'm pretty familiar with "Step recording" with my midi sequencer, but this is not the same thing at all, nor can I even figure out the use of Acid's "Step Recording" function. Trust me, I'm frustrated just like you with Acid in a lot of areas and it's limitations in my workflow.

Subject:RE: Deleting unused wavs/tracks

Reply by: Spirit

Date:10/23/2004 4:01:28 PM

:-)