Printed manual or 75.00 lower cost. Shipping and printing are HUGE expenses, especially for an app the calibre of Vegas. Shipping forced me to cut nearly 200 pages from my new book, because Amazon wouldn't carry the book for the normal 30% off if it was any larger.
Just like how Walmart governs the price of rice in China, Amazon and software vendors dictate how much weight they'll accept.
I've not had a printed manual since Vegas 2, and don't miss it at all. It's all right there on the website if you want to spend the 40.00 to print it out. Or more if you want it in color.

I dont really care about the manual. There were some features that I think it could have used but all in all I am pretty happy with it. Always seems to be more stable than Premiere Pro.

Hopefully for Vegas 6, it will have nested timelines, some auto color correction, auto levels, etc...for quick turn arounds, and hopefully they will build a second viewing window. I kind of like Avid's way of having three viewing windows. One click color matching would be awesome too.

Spot, any word on what that plugin company has decided to work on or is the jury still out?

I got a manual with Photoshop CS and with DreamWeaver MX. I think if I had the money I'd want the manual. Of course I don't always feel so flush. I think a printed manual would be a nice option.

I think Frank Capria was pretty enthused about some of Vegas's strongest points which were speed and stability.Some of his other issues have workarounds-you can put the timeline on the bottom and youcan work on several projects at once. Granted, working in multiple instances of Vegas is a kind of feature-poor kludge compared to what might be possible with multiple and nested timelines treated as "scenes" in a project.

Yeah, there were times when he just wasn't knowlegeable, but maybe the lesson to take from that is that Vegas needs to do a better job of being self explanatory. I often think that many questions asked here on this forum might be better addressed in the program itself. For instance, the things that confuse people about adding still images could be better explained or guessed from the program. The fact that Vegas always resizes images to fit in the frame can be very confusing and even counterintuitive.

I've been thinking lately that Vegas 5.0 might be more aptly described as a multimedia composer rather than an NLE.

Rob Mack

and yet he never mentioned that Vegas can run multiple instances at once. No other NLE can. Infact, the ONLY neg's that DV mag had for V3 were only Windows & no media managment. All that and more is in 5, they give it a lower score, and they don't point out a major feature (sure, nested timelines would be great, BUT, if you're rendering something in PPro & a thought to try out pops in your head, you eigther cancel the render or wait until it's done. In Vegas you just open up the project in another session!)

I can't comment one way or another on what the plug in (software group is or isn't going to do, nor can I confirm that I'm not confirming anything about them.

On the other hand, I can confirm that there are other plugins unrelated to our client that are in dev right now.

How's that for flip-flop-double-speak without saying a dang thing of value? :-)

Watch your email. If you're a registered user of the VASST site, you'll get some news soon. If you've been paying attention in the forums, you might have an idea of what's transpiring anyway....it's secret, but there *have* been some references to it.
NDA sucks.

Good points being brought up.

But in the world of NLE's, Vegas IS the underdog. If you're a NLE newbie, looking at the various offerings, Vegas doesn't really stand out, other than the slightly lower price. Sure, there are a lot of reason NOT to print a manual, but for those intially interested in Vegas, that comes across as a negative.

Even though it's not a concern of mine, Vegas still has no buzz. I'd say Apple wins the buzz-worthy award hand's down. So Sony needs to go that extra mile when it can.

For me:

1/- Vegas got me "amongst" the BIG boyz - FAST

2/- I didn't OR want to get complex and worrying "real" time cards.

3/- My clients - I believe - can see cutting edge work AT a cost that is acceptable.

4/- I can run even some of my most complex editing tricks on a laptop.

5/- Oh - Scripting! Just this one function has allowed me to produce spectacular 600 plus still sections TO THE BEAT!

6/- My learning curve having stepped up from VideoFactory was seamless.

7/- I CAN hold my head high when I see what IS on offer when I go around exhibitions - sometimes for at least 3 or 4 times of the price.

8/- Multi Instances - MASSIVE! ! ! !

9/- Integration with SF & DVDA2 - less with ACID . . but it is there.

10/- Mostly this NumbNutz can get the idea AND quickly AND from friends here!

11/- The Global Support - I know this isn't part of the SW, but it does highlight the use we all find in this remarkable NLE

. . okay . . . ?

Negatives . . and there are . . . just don't get in my way - yet!

In the long term and as Vegas IS hardware agnostic, it WILL be developed to make use of the faster and faster chips and RAM. Can I see the time when we will be swampped with TeraBit RAM running at 100ghz - er . . yes I do. Will this be lead by HD? Oh yes! . . . . What will then be the place for a NLE that is hardware agnostic? Ermmm.. pretty much in the front running way ahead . . .

I think the "detail" that reviewers find wrong with Vegas is just that - tiny detail. The bigger picture is when this same sw will be used to blow holes in those NLEs that HAVE hobbled themselves with Render cards and the like. Vegas is grwoing IN SPITE of not needing these render cards AND makes use of the advances in speed - plus the render-out options. WHY IS THAT REVIEWERS don't twig this? What is it that they can't weigh this one up. Now THAT would be an article. THAT would be an eye openner .. . but hey . . what do I know?

Grazie

Nice post Grazie.

It seems that SOME reviewers are often just that - reviewers rather than editors, or, if they are editors, they are so used to their way of working with another app. that it's hard to see the subtleties of a different program.
I'm probably the same, except I don't do reviews!

Regarding the Manual thing - surely Sony are on the right track - selling everything online. Here I sit on the western edge of the great southern land, but I had V5 within hours of its launch, and half a day later I had a printed manual.

Cheers

peter

. . yeah thanks Pete!

I just wanted to add that I have got a neat trick I do with the MS Capture in capturing stills from my Pannie Deck - MS thinks it is a camera . . ok ok ok .. . Now I've got loads of selected stills. Smack those into Vegas, slap on some music, tap in those markers, use the SlideShowToMarkers script - VOILA! An interesting slide show of my work for the client. He gets to see the value of employing me; he gets a view of where the video COULD go; story boarding for the type of work I do just became very very fluid; plus I have a real representation of the finished movie AND an interesting library of stills to remind me of where I want to go . . ..


. .. ps: I'm also using a SW package that I'd been using for 10 year .. Inspirations PLUS . .. I can now drag these stills into this Mind Mapping sw and start assembling draft ideas GRAPHICALLY! - You also get linking arrows and groupings etc etc . . I wonder if they now produce a mind map for clips . .. hmmm WOWEEEEeee that would be neat . .. . AND have this appear in the timeline . . .. .

Grazie

I did have the V-3 full manual which I thought was exceptional with the individual pages with the spiral binding. In fact it kind of spoiled me.

JJK

Well, for Premiere 6 I got a printed manual. And, I've just gotta say, the manual didn't really help much. It wasn't a "how do you edit" basics manual, it was a "how do you install & setup the program" manual.

Basicly, it sucked. And, thanks to Premiere 6, i don't miss manuals anymore. :)

My opinion on Manuals, in general, is that they are a type of "Save Our Ass!" document for companies who can say to frustrated end users, "But have you read . . where it says . .. ?" . . yeah yeah I know the RTFM option.

Now, there are books and Forums where "stuff" IS hammered out . . beaten to death and generally aired in public . . that's what I like about this and other friendly Forums.

G

Manuals can sometimes be the crutches of people who refuse to take the pains to learn to walk without them.

ReneH,

Are you suggesting that someone attempts to master Vegas without reading through the manual at least once?

If people actually did read the manual first, we wouldn't see nearly as many basic questions posted here on the forum. I don't mind answering questions, but I do get a little annoyed with people that ask questions that are obviously covered in the manual. That just seems lazy to me, although, I would think that it takes more effort to come here and post the question than it takes to pop the manual open in Acrobat Reader and do a simple search.

John

John - glad you've joined the throng. Nice to hear your comments. . .Right!

I read manuals, yes I do. I read that which I haven't understood from trying stuff out. If I'm still flumaxed, I then search out a forum to see if I can get an answer. THEN I email the comnpany telling them my travels thus far.

Sometimes - John - the "basic" questions are a result of getting stuff twisted around . . it happened to me and it still happens to me . . I have just realised that I do have a very different way of "viewing" the World .. in general this IS an advantage, but sometimes just sometimes:

1/- I forget

2/- I really don't get it. [ Ask Edward sometime! ]

Now, asuming I aint in a minority of one, when I read a question which is just so basic that I too can't believe the poster, I do try to offer them a gentle hand, guiding them towards answers which they may benefit from . .. this I think has potentially 2 outcomes:

1/- It may assist a Newbie to get some coinfidence in doing what they want.

2/- It may give that same Newbie to "fathom" the written word too.

Is there a case for "recognizing" laziness ? [ Not that you are in anyway suggesting such a thing . .perish the thought . . . ] Well I guess so .. Not a bad thing laziness .. it just underlines that sometimes stupid challenges out there in learning stuff - like ill-written manuals. And sometimes it it is just very hard. . .

I'll let you into a secret. This video stuff is fairly right brained . . reading and analysing is from the other side . . often these "talents" will tussle in one individual . .

. .but hey . . . what do I know .. . I aint no brain surgeon!

Oh the other thing is that maybe, just maybe, people come here to "share" where they are up to. "Look what I've done!" Now, if they get it right .. they want to share that to! Great stuff eh . .this learning stuff?

Apart from taking more time to post here .. it also takes some courage too. Now I wouldn't want someone who felt "shy" of coming here to ask "Those Questions", 'cos they didn't want to waste people's time . .


.. oh, just ordered SPOT's new 2nd Edition . . looking forward to that .. AND it's got a DVD too!

Best regards

Grazie

Quick, how do you get a JKL scrub to start at 1/4 speed rather than normal speed? If you read the manual, you will find the answer. However, there is absolutely no way you'd figure it out on your own. A manual, printed or otherwise, is essential. Non-linear, hypertext help files -- whether in HLP CHM or HTML format -- absolutely guarantee that you will never "see" each page, as you do when you read or skim a normal manual. Therefore, you can never stumble across these little nuggets.

A product must have a manual. For this price, it darn well should be printed, and the apologists who talk about shipping costs are talking through their hat. How many of you purchase products from B&H? How big are their catalogs? A lot bigger than a Vegas manual would be. How much did you pay for your last one? Zip, nada. Same thing for the Newark catalog and several others I am looking at right now on my bookshelf. If these companies can afford to ship these monster catalogs out of the funds in their marketing budgets, then a company can certainly afford to ship manuals to customers who pay $400 - $800 for their products.

If you charge professional prices, sell to professional customers who make their living using your products, and have a name like Sony, then there is no excuse -- absolutely no excuse -- for not making the product as professional as possible, and this most certainly includes making a manual available in the shipping version of the product.

JM, extra shipping costs to London? . .. I downloaded the V4 manual. I wish there was an addendum type thingie for V5? See what I mean?

Good thread this . . G

Regarding manuals, I've generally found them to be of most use when seeking out a particular operation or function - in other words, a reference book or help file. Since I already know the editing paradigm from my linear editing days and early exposure to Premiere 3 as well as background as a recording studio engineer, Vegas was a natural fit for me. A scan of the Vegas A/V routing diagrams and keyboard shortcuts was sufficient to familiarize me with the program.

On the other hand, I can understand that Vegas (or any NLE) would be confusing to those who have never edited before. For them, a didactic, task-oriented manual (either printed or help file) that addresses the basics of the editing paradigm and eases newbies into the world of Vegas would be most helpful. I guess that's where 3rd-party books come in. Right? ;-) Although, ideally, they wouldn't be necessary if the software publisher was doing their job. It's my impression that software developers have come to rely on this second channel to provide support for their products.

3DStudio Max's online help system is exemplary of non-printed manuals. Discreet stopped printing full manuals with version 4. Version 7 is nearing release. But, Max provides a rich online help file with both reference and task-oriented lessons. Easy searches and hyper-linking amongst relevant pages make it a joy to seek out information. When seeking information for a complex task, like Max scripting, I will often print out a selection of related help pages and bundle them together in a binder for that particular task. Try THAT with a printed manual!

One important feature of Vegas is its resolution independence. A clip can be rendered to 720x480 DV or 320x240 WMV and still look the same.

In order to do this, the dimensions of input media are related to output dimensions by frame-size, rather than by pixel count. To employ anything other than a 1:1 correspondance by default could lead to the loss of some information (the edges of clips or images meant for full-frame viewing).

Essentially, frames should be thought of not as pixels (which they really aren't) but instead as samples of contiunous functions (which is exactly what they are). I agree that this may be counter-intuitive for those who have long dealt with the pixel as the sole unit of image space (myself included), but it is a far more stable and consistent way to handle media.

Manuals?! I still haven't read the manual. I just watched Spot and Gary's excellent DVDs and bang I've produced my first 7 commercial DVDs in less than a month.

First one at www.WritingAdwords.com (btw customflix.com has been great to work with so far)


Ken

I feel the same way about the manuals. I've never read them through. Others do, though (and I certainly pick up the manuals from time to time).

With Dreamweaver I think I downloaded the app and paid extra for a disk and manual that were shipped to me later on.

Rob Mack

Well, I agree with some of this. I find it very useful when thinking about square and non-square pixels to imagine this as a sample rate. Analog signal is sampled at such a rate as to yield non square pixels.

But when dropping stills into the timeline I'd still prefer the choice of "Fit in Frame" (vegas' default), "Fill Frame" (cropping may occur), and "Actual Pixels".

Rob Mack