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Subject:(probably) annoying newbie question
Posted by: larryo
Date:10/16/2004 9:07:58 AM
I've just started using Acid Screenblast to assemble drum loops that I then import into Vegas. I've successfully used loops from discrete drums vol II for a completed song and am happy with it. I just purchased a 3 cd set from BetaMonkey.com and noticed on their loops that, even though they may be in a folder that say 58bpm, most are tagged with a value above or below (i.e.-57.557 to 58.338). If I specify the project as 58bpm there will be a very noticeable flanging effect, as if I'm time stretching the hell out of the loop. Selecting "original tempo" sounds fine, but since all the loops vary slightly, there's not much I can do. Any thoughts on how to prevent this, if this is normal, if it's a by-product of the construction of loops by BetaMonkey, etc. It seems to me I varied the Discrete Drums loops by about 6 bpm from the original tempo without artifacts. Appreciate any thoughts, Larry |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: larryo
Date:10/16/2004 9:17:20 AM
...I do notice that if I keep the project bpm just above the original tempo of the loop (say 1 bpm) that the flanging effect isn't tht noticeable. If I use a loop thats slighly above the project tempo, its flange city... |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: larryo
Date:10/17/2004 6:37:52 AM
Anyone?? |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:10/17/2004 6:54:55 AM
Something doesn't sound right here. I have not used beta Monkey loops ao I am speaking "generally." If a loop is editing properly (especilly a drum and Per. loop) it should streatch as much as 12 bpm or more without artifacts. Going faster will generally give you even more laditude. A flanging or stuttering sound is usually a result of slowing a loop down too much. The beta monkey loops loops should stretch a good ways, so something is not adding up. Play around with it some more and write back. Also, look at the loop properties and check out the stretch markers. They may need some editing. |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date:10/17/2004 4:58:04 PM
I have five (5) of the Meta Monkey Music CD’s and there are slight variances in some of the beats. Chris plays all of these live on his Perl kit and sometimes the loops are slightly slower or faster than the reported tempo, but I am not experiencing any flanging. In general, I think it’s a great collection for the money. Which collection do you have and which loops are causing the trouble. If I have that CD I’ll try to reproduce the error. You might want to send Chris an email. I’m sure he would want to know if the loops are not working out for you. My experience is that’s he’s very proud of his work and wants you to be a happy customer. ~jr |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: luceses
Date:10/17/2004 6:08:12 PM
You may need to open the Track properties of each loop and adjust the "stretch" markers. luceses |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:10/17/2004 8:04:03 PM
larryo is using Screenblast ACID; he can't edit the stretching properties of a loop. That's only possible with ACID Pro. Something doesn't sound right to me either; percussion and drums were always easier to manipulate for different tempos vs., say, distorted guitars. Is ACID reporting the right tempo itself? Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: JohnnyRoy
Date:10/17/2004 10:05:33 PM
Now I found one too. On the Beta Monkey Alt and Modern Rock Drum Loops collection in the Straight Ahead Alt Grooves at 120 BPM directory I found a loop: Loop_01 122 BPM.wav that is actually 121.833 BPM. ACID says it is 121.8 and Sound Forge confirms that the loop is 121.833. When I audition the loop in ACID at 122 BPM it has definite flanging but when I play it in Sound Forge the flanging is not there. This is, of course, because ACID it time-stretching it to 122 BPM on the fly. Like I said, I found a couple of Beta Monkey’s loops to be slightly off BPM but most are right on. Occasionally I even come across one with a bit of silence at the beginning or end. I just trim it off in Sound Forge and resave it. If it were a $50 loop CD from Sony I would expect perfection, but for $10 a CD, it’s a pretty good deal. (like everything else in life, you get what you pay for) ~jr |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: larryo
Date:10/18/2004 3:55:04 AM
"Which collection do you have and which loops are causing the trouble. If I have that CD I’ll try to reproduce the error." I ordered Drum Werks 3, 6(new) and Natural Grooves. I'm primarily working with 3 and 6 on a slow blues tune. I'm using tracks from the 56 bpm folder and seem to be ok bumping them up to 57 bpm. But virtually all tracks don't report the exact bpm. Incrementally moving the tempo down ever so slightly produces the flange that's noticeable in the cymbals and snare. I'm not sure about stretch markers and such - I don't see any reference to it under properties. |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:10/18/2004 7:21:33 AM
Something is wrong here. Let me ask a couple of questions. What is the tempo (bpm) of your project? At what tempo do you want the drum to play? |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: larryo
Date:10/18/2004 10:32:25 AM
DKeenum - project tempo set for 57 bpm. I originally selected loops from the Beta Monkey CD labeled 56 bpm. Some of those loops flanged as I auditioned them at project tempo of 56 bpm. Upon reviewing the properties of these loops, all of them showed inexact bpm's- for instance: 55.337, or 56.108. The loops that had a value above 56 bpm were/are the ones that sound time stretched when played at 56bpm. So...I bumped up the project tempo to 57 bpm so all loops the loops I use are played just a bit faster than their original tempo. Is there something I could do in Sound Forge 6? I know I can't alter the read-only loops, but I can "save as" and then edit. Appreciate your time... |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:10/18/2004 1:02:18 PM
You could try and time stretch them in Sound Forge using its time stretch function. (Remember to adjust their ACIDized properties as well afterward.) Here's something that may help: Since time and tempo are co-related, you should keep in mind what will fit within a given tempo. For example, in order for a four beat loop to fit within a tempo of about 57 BPM, it should be around 4.210 seconds. A simple formula to use would be: 240 / (tempo) = (time in seconds needed for loop) Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:10/18/2004 6:54:40 PM
larryo, I know I keep saying this, but something is not right here. Try this: Lay that project asside and play with some other loops. Change tempos and get to know the software better. Have you been to acidplanet.com for the weekly 8 pack? Try beta monkey loops at other tempos. See if some simple solution that we're not seeing doesn't show up. Or you could try screaming a lot. Sometimes that helps. |
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Subject:RE: (probably) annoying newbie question
Reply by: larryo
Date:10/19/2004 4:55:54 AM
I actually have my 1st Beta Monkey loops project just about completed. My solution is to keep the project bpm above or at the loop tempo. Below it, even for a fraction, doesn't work for me. I just received a reply from Chris at Beta Monkey and his solution was essentially the same-work with the tempo ABOVE the original tempo of the loop. If a fill is slower by a fraction, accelerate by a bpm or 2 for a natural feel. Comes down to this: I paid $50.00 for a 3 CD set for a decent sounding kit for its application. My project, while slightly limited in tempo option, is coming along fine. Hell, I'd probably have paid $50.00 for just the single shots of the kit for use in Drumagog. |