Subject:Frustrated w/"Stretch" in ACID!!!!

Posted by: luceses

Date:10/7/2004 12:16:37 PM

Hello everyone. I am REALLY getting upset with the stretch and peak detection in AP 4.0f and I want to know if anyone can steer me outta this HELL!
First off it does not matter how ,where or what I render(even if it is in Acid or another program, Cubase,Vegas,etc.) or if I am using VSTi or not.....

When I open a file in AP that was let's say rendered at 120bpm and I slow it down to even 105 it sounds worbly and crappy! When I go to open the file in the Track Properties window I notice that where Acid has made it's selections for peak and slice detections are off...WAY OFF in some case! Also when I render tracks down in Acid just about every track has the initial attack taken out. Not the full attack, just the click part(say on a kick), but all others are in tact after the first one. I usually just use a lot of stock sounds from SonyFo and this is the first time I am really trying to create a bunch of my own loops and I am wondering what the Hell I am doing wrong!!!!!

If I am rendering a 16 note pattern I set the grid to...duh...16 notes. I do the same for all subdivisions of note values and the results are always the same....FRUSTRATING!!!

I have reinstalled everything until I am to the point of shooting my PC!

This may not sound like a problem, but I am trying to create a bunch of rhythm parts for my gtr player and so I am looking at creating a TON of loops
and I want them to be as flexible as possible.

Okay, enough of my rant. PLEEEEEZZZZE, somebody let me know how to dig myself outta this hole!!!! Thanks,luceses.

my system;
Athon1.8,Primary 60gig drive,secondary80 gig drive(7200on both)
512 megs of 266 DDR ram MAudio 24/96 (with latest drivers)

Subject:RE: Frustrated w/"Stretch" in ACID!!!!

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:10/7/2004 2:12:42 PM

That’s a whole lot of information. Let me see if I can break it down into manageable chunks:

> When I open a file in AP that was let's say rendered at 120bpm and I slow it down to even 105 it sounds worbly and crappy!

When you say “open a file” is that file a loop or a whole song? If it’s a loop, how was it rendered? It could be that the ACID metadata is wrong and while the metadata says its 120 BPM the file really isn’t.

> When I go to open the file in the Track Properties window I notice that where Acid has made it's selections for peak and slice detections are off...WAY OFF in some case!

This is another reason why I question if the ACID properties in the file are correct. From what you’re describing, they are not and this may be the source of your problem. Where did you get these files from and how were they rendered? Do they even have ACID metadata in them?

> Also when I render tracks down in Acid just about every track has the initial attack taken out. Not the full attack, just the click part(say on a kick), but all others are in tact after the first one.

What format are you rendering them to? If it’s MP3, then that’s your problem. MP3’s don’t loop well because they add silence to the beginning and end of the file that you can’t control.

> I usually just use a lot of stock sounds from SonyFo and this is the first time I am really trying to create a bunch of my own loops and I am wondering what the Hell I am doing wrong!!!!!

It sounds like you are not adding the ACID meta-data to your loops. Again, how were they created?

I realize I haven’t been much help (just asked a lot of questions) but I’m trying to understand your entire workflow to see where the problem is introduced.

~jr

Subject:RE: Frustrated w/"Stretch" in ACID!!!!

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:10/7/2004 4:40:01 PM

Do you do any editing in Sound Forge? You are working with waves aren't you?

Subject:RE: Frustrated w/"Stretch" in ACID!!!!

Reply by: luceses

Date:10/10/2004 2:45:26 PM

Thanks for the replies. Let me follow up;

I am ONLY doing loops(4-8 beats max), I add ALL of the pertinent metadata in SF and I am recording stuff using a metronome both in Cubase and one I created on Acid and the loops sound in time in both programs, then I will tweak in SF and I STILL have to go back into each and every loop and manually move the stretch markers in order for the loop to play back at a slower speed. I mean, when I load up a Sony loop (usually drum or percussion) it will stretch over a vast range of tempos and still sound pretty good, but I don't seem to be enjoying that success. I have noticed that slowing down is really the problem. Still, trying to figure out how not to manually adjust each and every loop(I will be OLD and gray by then)!
Thanks,Luceses

Subject:RE: Frustrated w/"Stretch" in ACID!!!!

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:10/11/2004 7:33:28 PM

The key to good stretching is to have a stretch marker denoting each subdivision (or strong part) of a beat you feel needs stressing.

In addition to that, stretch markers shouldn't be more than a second apart. Add a marker or two between "stressed" markers to compensate for the slower tempos if this is the case.

Don't forget to try the different stretching methods too. They can help out as well.

A custom, good-sounding loop does take some effort. Don't feel that you're not doing it right, because it does take work.

Of course, even the venerable Sony loop libraries are prone to artifacting if the loops stray too far from their original tempos.

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page
Guitars 4 Kids

Subject:RE: Frustrated w/"Stretch" in ACID!!!!

Reply by: coolout

Date:10/11/2004 10:29:58 PM

i use acid to stretch and compress tracks for remixes all the time. just yesterday i took a accapella recorded at 75bpm up to 100bpm. last week i made a house remix at 125 bpm from a tune that was originally 95bpm.

i've never had any problems nor have i needed soundforge (except to reverse) or had to mess with the markers. the track type...yes but the markers...no.

if your tempo isn't correct in the first place the easiest solution would be to use the beatmapper to remap the tempo.

come to think of it, if you are playing live why are you even bothering recording in one app, editing in another and then trying to stretch in acid?

why not just record the music in acid at the CORRECT tempo and the file will be auto-acidized.

copy and edit the audio tracks into the short bits that you want and then just "render as" and click "save tracks as seperated files"

then BAM!!! you have automatic acid loops.