Subject:Opinions on new DAW

Posted by: Ben 

Date:8/28/2004 7:42:44 AM

[I've posted this in the Vegas Audio forum, but would really value any opinions here on this too.]

I'm currently in the process of thinking about upgrading my DAW. My current, slightly ageing, system is:

ASUS P4TE mobo with Intel Chipset
512 MB RDRAM
1.8 Ghz Pentium 4 (Northwood)
Radeon 7000 graphics card
IBM/Hitachi 80GB ATA-100 drive (system)
Maxtor 120GB running at ATA-100 (audio)
M-Audio Audiophile
Windows XP Pro

This was built myself, and has been upgraded over the years. My preference would be to build a new system from scratch, keeping the one above for office uses. However, I've seen a non-custom system on offer by UK company Mesh Computers, which theoretically looks like a pretty good deal, especially considering the inclusion on a Sony 19" TFT display. Here's the info:

http://www.meshcomputers.com/updated/elite_3.htm

I'd really appreciate your opinions on how you think this would perform as a DAW, particularly with Vegas. Obviously I'd immediately do a couple of tweaks, such as remove/disable the modem and soundcard and replace it with mine, add a second hard drive, etc.

I'm a little out of touch with the general consensus of what the latest and greatest is with regard to DAW systems. A couple of years ago the ASUS/Northwood combo was the one to go with. What's the current feeling on Pentiums and DAWs; which Pentium 4 model is the one to go with? I believe the Pentium with that Mesh system is a Prescott. I think I'm pretty inclined to stick with Intel systems, but would certainly welcome any opinions/info towards AMD.

Apologies for asking so many questions, and any info is much appreciated.

Thanks
Ben

Subject:RE: Opinions on new DAW

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/28/2004 11:25:45 AM

Certainly looks nice. However I, like you, prefer to go the custom-built route.

Your existing system is certainly not anything to scoff at. (Your main components such as your CPU and mobo ace mine, that's for sure.)

Do you not want to build the system yourself? Places like Motherboard Express can build it and burn it in for you for a nominal fee. (I take it you're in the UK?)

Personally, I like Intel-based systems. AMD systems give you more bang for the buck, but I'd rather pay more to have peace of mind than have to worry.

One thing I always worry about is the power supply. Vendors usually skimp on it, usually giving you a paltry 250 or 280 Watt power supply. A system should have at least a 300 Watt power supply, more if you can help it.

You could cannibalize some of those components like your Audiophile as its a good pro-audio card to begin with. Same with your hard drives. (You could get a cheap 40 GB drive for the old system.) I'd recommend formatting the system drive if you go this route.

You could spring for Serial ATA (SATA) drives too instead of Ultra ATA; they're certainly getting better (first generation drives had, from what I've heard, pretty flimsy cable-to-drive connectors) and their capacities bigger. Their prices are getting better as well.

I'm starting to see video cards and motherboards that are going to use or support PCI Express (PCIe). Video cards that use PCIe are allegedly twice as fast as AGP and will eventually replace that standard. (PCIe will also eventually replace plain-vanilla PCI slots.) I wouldn't concern myself so much however; it's going to be evolutionary much like AGP replaced PCI. Of course, video isn't as much a concern if you just do audio as well.

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page
Guitars 4 Kids

Subject:RE: Opinions on new DAW

Reply by: Ben 

Date:8/28/2004 11:43:10 AM

Hi mD

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah I am from the UK, so Motherboard Express looks like a no-goer unfortunately, though of course there are equivalent places here. Self-build is preferable, though I'm just not sure I'll have the time to do it this time around, hence why I'm looking at places.

I'm with you on the AMD issue - simply don't fully trust them - and the power supply, that's something I'd have to ask Mesh about. I guess I'd also want to know how quiet it is. The other thing I thought of regarding that deal is that the ASUS mobo looks a little esoteric to me - it seems to have onboard Radeon graphics. I'm pretty sure that's not a good thing - could possibly lead to audio conflicts/issues? Always best to be able to have something that you can potentially remove, and certainly fully configure.

Reason for upgrade is that existing system is constantly running out of horsepower for me - Vegas sessions with very heavy track and plugin count. Plus have started doing some audio to video work which seems to zap a fair few CPU cycles. I'm definitely going to be cannibalizing some of the existing system though, including the drives and the Audiophile.

Cheers
Ben

Subject:RE: Opinions on new DAW

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:8/28/2004 12:29:25 PM

I, for one, would really like to know how this goes for you. I keep thinking of building a new computer, but my old 1.2 keeps chugging along. But it is going to happen, so, please, keep us informed.

Subject:RE: Opinions on new DAW

Reply by: MyST

Date:8/29/2004 7:43:44 AM

Mini-tower?

With Vegas and Acid you'll quickly want to get multiple drives, no? How many can you fit in the mini format?
Also, if you look at the DVD-A forum you'll find a few users having compatibility problems with Sony burners. Don't know if that's improving with the newer burners or not.
SATA drives are a good idea. I've got two SATAs in my Antec Sonata case and it's really clutter free thanks to the smaller wires. That really helps in the air flow for cooling. Again, maybe a downside to the mini format.
If you don't have time to build it, how about doing like I did.
Select the components you want, buy them, and have a local PC tech put it together, install the OS, format the drives, etc.
I bought all my parts via the internet and everything went very smoothly.
Something to consider.

Mario

Subject:RE: Opinions on new DAW

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/29/2004 8:00:04 AM

Yeah, I totally neglected the fact that video editing alone can eat your system alive if it's not optimized for such a task.

I haven't looked at anything in the UK but as Mario mentioned, you should be able to find someone similar to Motherboard Express (MBX), where they let you buy the parts and build/burn in the system for you. I know that's what I'm going to do next time. Building my last system wasn't a bad experience, but I'd rather just pay someone else to do it.

I also forgot to mention that I'd recommend you buy everything from one vendor; you might pay a little more, but if there are any problems, you'll only have to deal with the one vendor (plus there won't be any finger pointing).

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page
Guitars 4 Kids

Subject:RE: Opinions on new DAW

Reply by: mortalengines

Date:9/11/2004 11:25:23 AM

geez,
you already have a pretty dang good system- if you just increased your ram to about a gig, & got one of those 2+ gigaherz processors you're just about in the place for any software requirements- a better sound card would just about make the nut- good AD/DA converters & lotsa processing is what it's all about. Oh yeah, a separate drive/drives to record to really helps alot - the system will work faster/better & if your OS drive takes a crap on you (like mine did recently) your files are safe on your "record" drive.

Subject:RE: Opinions on new DAW

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:9/11/2004 8:38:49 PM

If you guys didn't think about it yet, a little, quite and powerful Audio PC for not too much bucks :

Shuttle SB81P (Barebone, quite, Chipset Intel 770)
-Intel P4 3.4 Ghz (up to 3.8, and maybe more with updates)
-Noname 2Go of DDRam (up to 4Go - Noname is cheaper but at your own risk)
-Seagate SATA 160Go (I strongly recommend Seagate for their stability & quiteness)
-Asus AX-300SE PCI-Express video Card (the cheapest one... You don't need more for audio, on this one you'll be able to switch the noisy fan with a dissipator without any regrets)
-Soundcard M-Audio, RME, etc... (very low latency for not much)
-17' or 19' Samsung SyncMaster LCD Screen (7-or-910T Black)(You won't need more... except if you work on a DAW with an annoying interface, get 2 of them ^^)
-Logitech Cordless Desktop Mx (Optical, Wireless but not bluetouth because bluetooth takes too much freakin' services in the background memory process)
-One midi keyboard (M-Audio's are nice, but all in plastic... grey plastic... ew... spray it in black)
-2 good monitors (Genelec 1030A in my opinion for a first choice. Or one that you're used to)

This one kicks a Standard G5's ass... Even for the design... Well, this is a point of view.