Subject:Use higher bit rate to use SF noise reduction?

Posted by: Rareburto

Date:8/28/2004 4:11:34 PM

I archive 1/4" tapes of music to DVD at 44.1/16. I process it using SF Noise Reduction, normalization, etc.
Should I start with 88.2/24, then process, then downsize to 44.1/16 or should I just do it all at 44.1/16?

Subject:RE: Use higher bit rate to use SF noise reduction?

Reply by: kbruff

Date:8/29/2004 3:03:10 PM

I recall some users of this forum, suggesting that the algorithms can be more accurate with more data ?-?

However I am not sure of the front end optimization of NR.

I always record at the max -- 96/24, process and finally save as 44.1/16.

Subject:RE: Use higher bit rate to use SF noise reduction?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:8/30/2004 6:28:05 AM

Noise Reduction uses 24 bit processing and most all of the other Sony processes do also, so converting to 88/24 may not be so beneficial.

Subject:SF uses 24 bit processing tranparently?

Reply by: Rareburto

Date:8/31/2004 6:13:09 PM

Rednroll, this is what I was wondering. Thanks for your reply. So can I say: SF upsamples (to 24 bit) automatically and transparently when it does certain processing, then down samples to original bit rate, again automatically and transparently. Is this correct?

How did you know they process at 24 bit for noise reduction (or any other processing)? I have heard statements about professional sound software in general which say something similar, but I heard nothing specific.

My guess is that this intermediate processing can not change the HZ to any advanage. The only way to get improvement from increased HZ is to do it in the original creation. Am I correct? Would it have much affect on the processing result?

Subject:Anyone from Sony out there?

Reply by: Rareburto

Date:9/7/2004 7:54:40 PM

Anyone from Sony out there that could comment on this? Thanks.

Subject:RE: Anyone from Sony out there?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:9/8/2004 6:24:20 AM

When you open the plugin on the bottom right corner you will see a display that says CPU% 24 bit. If you right click over that number, you will see that you can change the bit debth at which the plugin processes at. Also, yes you are correct on how this takes place transparently.

When you're talking about changing the "HZ", I'm assuming you're talking about the sampling frequency. Why would you want to increase the sampling frequency? Increasing the sampling frequency will do nothing for your processing resolution, except allow you to increase the frequency range of the original file. So if your original file was at 44.1Khz, this means the highest frequency this file can reproduce is at 22Khz. If you increase the sampling frequency to 88.2Khz, now the file is able to reproduce frequencies up to 44Khz. So if your original file didn't have anything above 22Khz in the first place, what did you benefit by increasing your sampling frequency to 88.2Khz? So to answer your question if it would have much effect on the processing results, I would have to say no it wouldn't.

Subject:RE: Anyone from Sony out there?

Reply by: Rareburto

Date:9/9/2004 5:10:51 PM

Rednroll, I have read many of yor posts. You have helped many many people, and now me. Thanks very much. Sony should put you on their payroll.

Subject:RE: Anyone from Sony out there?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:9/10/2004 7:51:54 AM

Thanks for the compliment. Usually alls I get from Sony is a certain director emailing me and telling me I need to tone it down because some Joe Pro nobody over on the Vegas Audio forum comes in to do nothing for the forum, but knit pick my advice apart for agruments sake. So I guess I solved the problem by not posting anything in that forum, and now Joe Pro nobody and his friends have nothing to say, to help anyone out. So that's the personal thanks I get from Sony, a nice slap in the face.

Subject:RE: Anyone from Sony out there?

Reply by: Rareburto

Date:9/10/2004 7:50:39 PM

I remember reading one thread you and many other were in where the one guy, the antagonist, got everybody upset with his anger/negativity. It's was a war of words. Everyone wanted the last hit so it went on and on. No one got satisfaction.

Since I was not embroiled in it, I could calmly sit back and think:
"One should not worry about getting the last hit. Silence will leave the antagonist empty handed. He won't even know if you read his last post. And it stops something that should be stopped."

How about the power of the "Ignore this user" button? I wish the Sony support guy would have used it. Instead he was so battered by the antagonist that he swore not to ever return to the forum. I think we do not use the button for the same reason we like to look at car wrecks. I think I'll start a post on the ignore button. Cheers.

Subject:RE: SF uses 24 bit processing tranparently?

Reply by: jorgensen

Date:9/13/2004 3:18:29 AM

This discussion reminds me of a test I made a couple of years ago, and posted here.

I wanted to figure what happens, when the red lights in the plug-ins flashes for overload – and it turned out, they can flash as much as they like, if just the level is lowered at the final stage.

This is because SF internal converts the file to 32-bit floating point, and uses this format throughout the process. At the final stage SF converts it back to a fixed point format.
This of course requires that the plug-ins support this format, but I do not know any that doesn’t.
Some plug-ins uses 64-bit floating point processing, but this can only be done internally, as directx does not support this format.

The bit resolution in the lower right corner of the plug-in chainer, is confusing – ’16-bit’ is 16-bit fixed point, ‘24-bit’ is 32-bit floating point (the default), and ‘32-bit’ is 32 bit fixed point.
I am not sure exactly what this is used for, but it turned out that if I changed to a fixed point format, the red lights courses clipping in the sound. So always stick to the default 24-bit (IEEE float).