Subject:loop question

Posted by: snuffs

Date:8/9/2004 12:58:36 AM

I'm going to be making a ton samples off of CDs, and I wondered if it made any difference to originally make them beatmap, loop etc.

In other words, after spending a ton of time editing a sample so that it plays perfectly as a loop, IS THERE ANY DOWNSIDE TO RENDERING IT BEATMAP? Or ONE-SHOT? ...Can I create my original sample BEAT MAP, then change it to 1 SHOT and still have it play perfeclty as a loop?

Since this is going to be time-consuming, is there any reason to render each sample ONE-SHOT and BEAT MAP and LOOP? I plan on doing WAVs; is there any reason to also render as MP3, WMA etc?

(ACID handles my WAVs great, but do any other apps use these other formats? I've always assumed WAVs to be the best, most versatile high quality kind of sample)

Subject:RE: loop question

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:8/9/2004 6:53:37 AM

I'm not sure of your question, so let me just try this. Other apps will play the wavs as just wavs unless they are designed to read acid files (i.e. Home Studio and Sonar).

A "one-shot" will not loop, so you use that for things that don't loop. Obvious I guess.
Beatmap is for longer files - like longer than 20 src. or something like that. So most 2 bar or even 4 bar loops will be just loops.

Did that help?

Subject:RE: loop question

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/9/2004 12:35:37 PM

Adding to what DKeenum mentioned, Loop and Beatmapped tracks are time stretched by apps that can read the ACIDized chunk of info attached to the samples, like ACID and SONAR.

If you do not want your samples to be time stretched (like percussive hits and spoken words), ACIDize them as One-shots. Likewise, if you make such samples into loops (some drum grooves, for example), be sure the sample has no root key note assigned.

Also, if you, say, go from Beatmapped to One-shot, how it loops perfectly will depend on how long the sample is vs. the tempo of the project. Time and tempo are related.

One-shots take a "what you hear is what you get" approach and are not time stretched by ACID (though they are still an ACIDized form).

For example, a One-shot that's exactly two seconds long will loop perfectly in a tempo of 120 BPM.

Note also that turning a track from Beatmapped to One-shot (or vice versa) without using the "Save" or "Save As" buttons in the same track properties window will only apply changes to the current project. If you want to permanently change the ACIDized properties of the sample, you must click the "Save" or "Save As" button.

WAV is practically universal and lossless (no loss of quality is made) for Windows. That also means WAV samples can be big in file size as a result. AIFF is usually the format preferred for Macs. Usually, most pro-level apps can handle both. (ACID Pro, Sound Forge and Vegas can, as well as others like SONAR.)

You could use MP3 and WMA, but both those formats are lossy. MP3 format is not exactly good for loops either; there's a bit of silence at the beginning and end of an MP3 that's inherent to the format. Still, they have their uses (like sharing ideas and using them for Beatmapped tracks).

Not every app can read MP3 and WMA. (Ableton's Live cannot read either format, for example.)

There's also Sony's own proprietary lossless-but-compressed format, PCA (Perfect Clarity Audio). However, only Sony's own apps can read this format.

HTH,
Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page
Guitars 4 Kids

Subject:I asked this wrong

Reply by: snuffs

Date:8/10/2004 10:48:47 PM

Okay, I find a sample on CD I want & render it as a tiny WAV in ACID.

If I originally render it as a 1-SHOT, and then later want to LOOP it (OR BEATMAP it) for a specific project -- Do I lose any information?

Does my 1-Shot = all the info of a Beatmap = all the info of a Loop?

Let's say my sample will loop perfectly as a Beatmap, or 1-Shot, or Loop. Is it preferable to save it in one format, for any reason?

I tend to save things as 1 Shots. I understand I can change the samples later to loop or beatmp. Is there any reason for me NOT to do this?

***Once, I made a bunch of samples as BEATMAP that looped perfectly, but I couldn't get them to loop again & sound right. I'm not certain as to why, but think the Beatmaps stretched/shrank somehow in my projects.

Hope I've explained this better. There are aspects to this I really don't quite understand

Subject:RE: I asked this wrong

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/11/2004 1:22:03 PM

Basically, no, you shouldn't lose any information per se. Some additional info is probably added to the ACIDized chunk of data that gets attached to a WAV when going from One-shot to Beatmapped or Loop.

You could switch from one ACIDized format to another without any real loss. It's the apps that can read ACIDized info that will ulitmately decide how the sample sounds in that app.

For example, if you took a sample that was Beatmapped and opened it in Sound Forge, you'd hear the sample in its raw form—no time stretching. If you took a copy of that same sample and ACIDized it as a Loop, it would sound exactly the same in Sound Forge. (Though Sound Forge can and does ACIDize samples, it does not time stretch the sample for you in real time, which is left up to apps like ACID to do.)

Beatmapped tracks are time stretched just like Loops are based upon the overall project tempo, which is probably why you're experiencing the problems you're having.

I usually keep my samples/takes as One-shots until I decide what to do with them. The reason you may not want to Beatmap or Loop the sample right away is because you might not know how it sounds in another tempo or key just yet.

You'd probably also want to render the sample to a new track rather than just change the ACIDized properties for the track. Rendering to a new track will effectively ACIDize the newly rendered track as well and leaves your original track alone.

If the track ends up being turned into a Beatmapped or Loop track, the newly rendered track is ACIDized based upon the project's tempo and/or key. (How a track becomes a Loop, Beatmapped, or One-shot can be explained if you'd like.)

Iacobus
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RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page
Guitars 4 Kids

Subject:RE: I asked this wrong

Reply by: brmedia

Date:8/11/2004 5:09:24 PM

Hello,

You guys seem to be pretty familiar with this software... I have a question (I'm new to this...) - I need to create Acidized loops that can be imported into Sonar, Guitar Tracks Pro, etc. Can this be done using Screenblast Acid XPress 4.0? - Does it save or render files as Acid Loops?

Thankx!

Subject:pro tools

Reply by: bflat

Date:8/12/2004 5:16:53 AM

It sounds like WAVs are the highest quality / most versatile. I'm considering keeping all my library as WAVs, but they take up enormous space.

A friend of mine uses PRO-TOOLS and using WAVES, which aren't the same WAVs we use in Acid -- at least I couldn't access or play them in ACID or Win Media Player. Anybody know about this? Are PRO-TOOLS WAVES a propreitary format for pro-t?

Subject:RE: pro tools

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/13/2004 8:00:01 PM

brmedia: I don't think you can render to a new track (which is different from rendering out the whole project) with XPress 4.0. Your sample gets ACIDized only during rendering to a new track.

bflat: I don't offhand as I don't use Pro-Tools myself. It should be able to at least render out to WAV. Anyone?

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
mD's ACIDplanet Page
Guitars 4 Kids