I see this constantly since version 4, but I chalk it up to RME's drivers

Most of us here at the dev shop do actually use the apps- here's my recent experience: For 3 straight days I've been working on a 20 minute film soundtrack- 16/48, 21 tracks, 1200 events, ~3000 takes of .wav and AIF, 7 busses, Waves on every bus, tons of back and forth to Forge for cleanup and sound shaping, playback of all Vegas tracks is no prob, no crashes, plus I get full framerate playback of the 24p DV file that I'm using as picture ref. This project started in FCP then went to Protools via OMF, moved over to Vegas via OMF using EDL Convert Pro 4, and will eventually be final-mixed on a Sony DMXR100 board for layback to 24p HDCAM. From there it goes to 35mm supposedly.

We're not perfect of course...there's always room for improvement, but you can definitely use Vegas 5.0b for serious work, thousands of people use it every day all over the world.

what system components determine how many of any kind of plugin you can run? Is it RAM? Or CPU ?

Are multiple CPU's really making a difference in V5 ?

I know I try like hell to get vegas to run smooth, but Im never TOO confident. It can always sneak a glitch in on you, or crash because you hit mute or solo, or freeze up from zooming in, all kinds of crazy stuff.

Then again, Im pushing pretty hard

Long post - sorry, this is how serious the problem is.
Look Sony, I wish you would get off this kick of "defensive replying" (thinking some users are "out to get ya" type of replies - and dismissing these posts because of this with a "works for me" reply). Some of us really just want to see the important items fixed SO THEY CAN move on to the latest version and keep supporting this great app. Responses like that basically tell me you've already come to your own conclusions and further looking into is out of the question - A VERY BAD THING in this case.

This is concerning moving to V4e and then V5 - I'm NOT SOLD AT ALL based on my findings with V4e (and I want some of V5's features).
Enough so that I don't trust V4 for any serious projects and still have to stay with V3c.
I'm sorry, the systems are NOT the issue in this case. We can talk till we're blue in the face as for this. ** I think most people here have projects that, in reality, are pretty minimal in scope**
I'm seeing drastic problems\differences between V30c and V4e on SEVERAL systems when testing. For instance one personal system: P4 3.2ghz, 1 gig ram, hybrid U360 scsi (3 drives) and fast IDE (3 drives), 2 delta 1010's.
Same EXACT issues occur in Studio B with an RME based DAW (2.4ghz P4). The differences are blatently obvious as far as stability and trackcount before experiencing hiccups\freezing. Same issues with Studio C as well.
It's that blatent - so how is it this isn't being looked into? Performance and stability are of key importance.

With your reply - I understand you are GETTING WORK DONE Sony, but what I'm talking about is a direct A\B comparison between V3c and V4e with the exact same project. There's no way you're seeing the same stability\perfromance vs. V3c. I just know it. And as for V3c\V4e\V5b and your projects, you don't list anything as for an A\B comparsion between V3c and V4e or V5b with your professed projects in your reply. Just a reply saying "well it works". I'm SURE it worked in the end - but with the stability and performance of V3c? I'm betting NO.

V3 plays more tracks\plugs with smoothest operation AND STABILITY. The SAME project in V4 - occasional skipping and WAY MORE CRASHES in mixdown. And the differences are blatent. Crashes with nominal UI usage? ....just by scrolling...zooming??? - how is this not a major showstopper btw? How are you NOT seeing\hearing the skipping\hiccups with this UI usage? How is it that with the final v4e this hasn't been addressed? There is clearly a difference between the two in this area, and I think most will agree it's rather unnacceptable.

Pipeline also states he see's these differences (just in the area of zooming\scrolling alone).
BTW PIPE: RME's drivers are some of THE best in the biz. I've used dozens of RME DAWs without ANY of the issues you mention. Are you sure you're configured right? Have the best version for your system? (actually - nevermind, that's your business and problem. I can't go there anymore with you). I'd love to get your system on my bench and fix it once and for all for ya.

With V3c on several different DAW scenarios, I have yet to come across a project that caused even the smallest hiccup. I can mix ANY project without a single hiccup or crash with V3c. Same project on V4e and daw systems?...ridiculous. It's totally UNACCEPTABLE to get skipping\hiccups to complete crashing\freeze while zooming during playback. It's ridiculous that V4 doesn't follow the same streamlining in comparison to V3 (and god knows about V5b - I've already read here it's the same or worse). NOT ENTICING TO MOST PROFESSIONALS SONY. I can't move forward (same as the original post I relisted).
If V5 is going to follow along this same line, there's no way in hell I can or will move to it (even though I WANT TO based on featureset). I need to get f'n work done - and done fast, not come here and post every 5 secs begging for an update (only to get responses from SONY saying "works here...just did a project"...blah-blah. mentioning nothing about stability\performance between V3c and V?). Know what I mean?

Instead of generic "workd for me" replies and listing some nefarious project memories along with it, I urge you (SONY) to re-evalute these issues. I find it REALLY hard to believe you can't admit there's a difference in the areas mentioned. Sorry to diminish V4-V5 with it's realities, but this REALLY needs to be looked at, and I think you know this. V3c is STILL the version for GETTING WORK DONE FAST (and really, this shouldn't be the case at this point in the game).

A lot of times in my life I give "works for *me* " about the same weight as "they've always been nice to *me* "

then again I say "works for me" a lot too, so...

About the RME drivers. They DO work unbelieveably well in Nuendo and Samplitude (and Im assuming, Sequoia) on my system. However Sonic FOundry has stated in this forum a few times that there is something fundamentally at odds between RME's driver philosophy and Vegas'. I think something about buffers. I hope I am not putting words into your mouths, Sony guys, so if you could clear it up, that would be cool.

I am holding onto hope that Vegas 6 could do hardware input monitoring combining the best features of those two app's input monitoring. That would take care of the recording end for me, and add the ability to truly use outboard gear in an easy time sensible way during mixdown as well.

But the zooming/scrolling bugs, track count and plugin issues, and the edit limit will still always be kicking my butt.

Sony will fix it if we can send them consistent repro files of troublemakers, but my problem is that the errors are inconsistent. But keep in mind if you can find a situation where the problem happens every time, contact Sony and find a way to send them that file. It will make all of our lives better!

VegUser,
Since you seem to be having an issue that is not common to everyone and is not being reproduced by others (other than maybe Pipeline) I would suggest you contact the guys at Sony and send them disc(s) with projects that exhibit the problem along with the details of your system.

If it's reproducable then this will help them track down any bugs. I've done this many times in the past and they've been receptive.
I think this is the best way to constructively get the issue solved.

Also, I'd be very interested in more details on the project that is causing you so much grief. If you could send info like, number of tracks used, what your bussing structure is, which and how many plugins are you using, etc.

BTW it's my experience that V4 and V5 require quite a bit more resources than V3, most likely due to the loads of new features in the later releases.

Good luck, hope you can get your problems solved.
B.

"Most of us here at the dev shop do actually use the apps- here's my recent experience: For 3 straight days I've been working on a 20 minute film soundtrack- 16/48, 21 tracks, 1200 events, ~3000 takes of .wav and AIF, 7 busses, Waves on every bus, tons of back and forth to Forge for cleanup and sound shaping, playback of all Vegas tracks is no prob, no crashes, plus I get full framerate playback of the 24p DV file that I'm using as picture ref. This project started in FCP then went to Protools via OMF, moved over to Vegas via OMF using EDL Convert Pro 4, and will eventually be final-mixed on a Sony DMXR100 board for layback to 24p HDCAM. From there it goes to 35mm supposedly.

We're not perfect of course...there's always room for improvement, but you can definitely use Vegas 5.0b for serious work, thousands of people use it every day all over the world. "

could you please share with us your set up ,,computer, sound card ,controller etc,,,thanks

In terms of VegUser's complaints comparing Veg 3 & 4, I'd generally have to agree with him. Veg 4 was such a slug that I found it unusable and went back to using Veg 3 until recently installing Veg 5.0b. Veg 5 is light years better than 4 on my system. It appears stable, is quite snappy and responsive (unlike 4) and so far I've got no major complaints except for the cheesy toy-like color scheme which I frankly feel embarrased to have something that looks like that in a professional setup – and the metronome bug which apparently has continued from Veg 4. There obviously are some other problems but for me, they are not show stoppers at this point. Also, I do not see any significant increase in CPU load from Veg 3 to 5. I am running 20-30 tracks with a ton of edits (few plugins) peaking at about 20% usage on a modest AMD XP2600 processor with a gig of ram.

drbam

I'm basically a video guy but with a lot of interest in the audio side. I see the same kind of thing with video. We're told about the truly awesome things that Vegas has been demoed doing. Great, so we'd like to do the same but the final commnet is some throw away line like "of course you'll need a really tricked up system to do this".
Now I've Googled the web but no seems able to supply one of those. How about some specifics, I can understand that Sony doesn't want to be seen to be putting there stamp of approval on someones leses kit that they have no control over but we're mostly grown men who can work that out for ourselves. We'd have the same issues no matter how we based our purchases, at least we'd have a starting point that we know should be close to 'reference' system used to achieve said result.
But it's not just the hardware at stake, we need more info re OS installation, other things that might get in the way.
I'd give good odds on this problem having nothing to do with Vegas but until the user fixes it, it doesn't matter to him whose fault it is and he can see no way forward.
Just a minute ago I was reading a post in the Video forum, guy finally got his XP system stable, had NOTHING to do with XP or Vegas, turns out it was a dodgy driver from Pinnacle. Took a year to find the problem, believe it or not it was Microsoft who found it.
Now I'm not suggestion that the Sony engineers start making house calls around the planet, BUT if we can eliminate some of the variables it makes the search that much easier.
Yes, it's good to know that somehow, on certain hardware and a certain OS, installed in a certain way the thing screams along. So we can assume the V5 code is OK in that one instance. Now a good way forward for many would be to start with that exact same system, add whatever mods/hardware/drivers they prefer, checking at each stage that it still runs OK. Maybe it'll fall over, maybe it's the fault of the new hardware/driver or maybe it's how Vegas interfaces to it but at least the problem is now narrowed down, only one thing has changed.

Bob.

I agree with Bob on needing more info on a rock solid system that works with Vegas in the Sony lab. This issue is the ONLY thing that ever makes me consider moving to a mac. What keeps me from it is that I'm too hooked on Vegas.

drbam

I never had any V4 problem as Veguser describes after MOTU got their ASIO driver sorted out.

Could it be something specific to ther studio's PCs, OS, setup, or a particular plugin ? What track/plug counts are you developing problems at ?

geoff

a lot of my problems happen across a range of PC's and soundcards. Certain plugins are definite ankle-biters. Edit counts, track counts, envelopes, fades , theyll all hit any machine I work on at some time.

I really would like to see a few different reccomended setups, from 2 tracks to 48

Where can we attribute the blame?

How can we be sure it is a Sony cause.

Because there is a difference between v3 and 4 still does not mean there is fault with Vegas.
The difference could just be revealing an existing problem in sondcard drivers etc.

I have a 'unique' bug using V4, almost no one else seems to suffer it.

However I run up to 100 tracks (not all with events playing at once) zillions of edits, plugs till I run on %100 cpu continuous, edit, zoom etc while playing, never have one glitch or crash. (I am aware of some dodgy plugs I wouldn't insert while playing though)
I believe pushing the system is just forcing the problem to the surface where otherwise the PC is able to cope with it.

If I am running the same software as you, then the only difference is the system we are using it on.
Doesn't prove either way where the problem is, and I'm not defending Sony, but a cause is not so easily found I believe.

No, no. Let's not get in with "system questions, drivers", you're going elsewhere with this post doing that usual vegas forum thing thinking it's some particular issue to be resolved (ie. - via soundcard drivers ,etc.). No, the issue and comparison of performance between the two versions spans many different DAWs (powerful systems, all built for A\V) reaching the same conclusion. I can't trust V4e in comparison to V3 and raise issue with the performance differences between the two (which shouldn't be the case).

The point is there IS a performance difference when we A\B v3c to V4e.
A common sluggishness and application instability when we compare on all systems.
No, V3c is STILL the more solid\go to\get work done version (and that shouldn't be the case).

But the different versions DO different things. Increased functionality presumably has some overhead, and different driver models DO open up more possibilties of third party problems.

Did you change from 'Win Classic' to ASIO in V4 ?

As I said, for me V4 was just as solid a VA3, once MOTU fixed their ASIO drivers.

geoff

If you're complaint is that V4/V5 take more resources than V3 then you will get no argument from myself and, most likely, others here.

However, if your complaint has to do with V4/V5 running poorly compaired to what other people are experiencing , then we'll need to get into the nitty gritty of your system: drivers, plugins, track/buss counts, etc.

All I can relate is that I'm running heavy duty projects with V4/V5 on a PC that has less horsepower than the system you described and have little or no trouble. The only difference is that my machine's are different than yours and from my many years here at the forum, that has been the source of a lot of people's problems.

Sorry, can't help more than that.

what are you running BGC ?

Hi Pipe,
Compared to you, my system is nothing I'm sure ;0
(I've followed your trials and tribulations for years now - you really push your systems hard!)

But in a nutshell my systems is:
AMD Athalon 2200 1.7 GHz (but overclocked a bit).
ASUS 333 Board
500 MB of RAM
C Drive is IDE
D Drive is RAIDed IDE for speed
2 Universal Audio UAD-1 cards (plugin cards)
My sound cards of choice are a stack of Digital Audio Labs Card Deluxes that I'm running in ASIO mode.
My major native plugins are Waves and UAD. I mix "in the box" and don't use external gear for mixing. I have lots of preamps/channel strips and a couple of mixers to get the audio into the box.

This may not be a completely scientific observation, but I used to use Intel CPUs and motherboards provided by Intel (they used to sponsor my studio). I seemed to have more problems with those systems. Since I moved to the AMD system with the ASUS board the Sony software has been very reliable.
However, I'm not really comfortable standing behind a "Intel BAD" "AMD Good" judgement.
I have had some issues with the UAD-1 cards and getting those to run smoothly, but with 2 I'm in a very happy space.

My only limitations come about when my native plugin count gets to the point that my CPU maxes out . I commonly have >30 or 40 tracks (lots of edits/events) with plenty of track FX on nearly everything and 10 or so buss FX plugins (reverbs, delays, FX, etc.) without any stuttering and plenty of CPU left over (25% lets say).

B.

There was a major difference between Vegas v1 and v2
I remember the most important thing to me was the incredible efficiency of version 1, compared to any other PC app..

That has been lost with the gain of many features. Like dx plugs on tracks!

bgc, I can barely get the UAD-1 to work with vegas at all! Do you have problems when the UA plugs are running and you solo or mute tracks not assigned to the uad-1?

Can you try an experiment?

1. make a 3 track project
2. make a buss with the UA LA-2a on it
3. assign tracks 2 and 3 to that buss
4. while playing solo track 1

IF I do this itll freeze or crash vegas

I have an AMD PC in the other studio running 007. I can try it again I suppose. I remember trying to run it in Vegas 5, but many plugins wouldnt work at all, and the other issues I was having still happened, but it seemed pretty fast.

Hi Pipe,
My UAD is working flawlessly with Vegas and Acid.
I tried your experiement and I didn't have any issues any all, sorry.
The only issue that I've ever had with Vegas and the UAD-1 is that if you put a native plugin before the UAD-1 it complains and disables the UAD plugin:
UAD-1 LA2A -> Waves EQ = GOOD
Waves EQ -> UAD-1 LA2A = BAD.
This is a known issue and it's easy for me to work around.
B.

maybe,you didn't catch my original post on 7/24,but could you please specify your set up in detail ,,vegas is important to me along with trying to optimize productivity and workflow ...thanks

I'm trying to reply to Sony EPM but my posts keep showing up at the bottom,,oh well I clicked on reply to this message