Vegas Release Notes and other issues

wobblyboy wrote on 7/22/2004, 5:35 PM
Be sure to read Vegas Release Notes for Version 5.0 b. Under known issues note that all Vegas 4 scripts "name spaces" need to be edlited from Sonic Foundry to Sony before you can use them in Vegas 5. Also if you are doing multi track audio and use a Pro Sound Card you will need to set Vegas Project properties to match the sample rate for the sound card. I was trying to figure out why I couldn't use some of the Vegas 4 Scripts in Vegas 5 and why I was getting an error message when trying to go from ADAT athrough my Motu 2408. Also note if you are using Sound Forge or CD Architect through a Pro Sound Card you may have to reduce buffer size to get it to work properly. It took me a couple of days of investigation before these problems were solved and I wanted to post so that others would not have to take time to solve the problem. Wobbly Boy

Comments

SNJ wrote on 7/22/2004, 7:02 PM
I have been a user of Vegas Video 3 for several years now, as an audio editor; I hardly ever use the video component of the application. I have found Vegas to be the fastest, most intuitive audio editor I have ever used in my 7 years of running a recording studio, I will challenge any ProTools editor to a face off any day with Vegas as my weapon of choice. I never use MIDI and find that all my needs are met combining Vegas 3 with SoundForge 6. I manage to get about 35 tracks of audio with around 10 to 15 third party plugins running realtime, while tracking a stereo file back in. I'm running a Pentium 4 2.8GHz with two 160 gig drives, I have M Audio Delta 10/10 cards. Win XP Pro.

After reading a review on Vegas 5 and seeing that it had been bought out by Sony I was interested in upgrading, my main reason being the new automation features, being able to draw envelopes for threshold levels for compressors and the like is very enticing. I downloaded the Vegas 5 demo to test it out.

The first hassle I had was mainly due to the fact that my internet PC is at home and my audio PC is at the studio, and I do not allow the studio PC to go online. When I tried to install Vegas5, I was informed I needed Microsoft NET, which meant waiting until the next day to install, after a hefty 26 MB download that night. After installing NET Vegas 5 installed flawlessly.

I was pleased to see the familiar layout of Vegas was still true, yet it has a classier updated feel, especially the fader movement in the "track optimized" EQ & Compressor FX.

As I said I have used Vegas 3 as my main app so i had plenty of Vegas 3 session files and I loaded one up into Vegas 5. After about 20 seconds of playback - GLITCH. It drops out for about 0.2 of a second, then continiues, and drops out again about 5 seconds later. Then it just gets very choppy. Not good - I tweaked the audio device settings, tried different playback bauufer settings. Increasing this to max (1.00) gave me a longer period before a dropout, but this was nowhere near the performance of Vegas 3. I tried both ASIO and Classic Windows Drivers (Classic Win drivers worked best for me on Vegas 3) but no change was experienced.

I was sure that this session was no sweat in Vegas 3, so I reinstalled it. I ran the exact same Vegas session in Vegas three with no dropouts whatsoever - I even managed to import a further 10 stereo tracks of audio and it took it all in it's stride.

I started a fresh project in Vegas 5, importing about 12 wave files. Same problem - glitches after about a minute or so, and then really bad staggered playback. No plugins running. No edits in the wave files and no envelopes drawn. Trying the same test in Vegas 3; no problems, I got up to about 50 tracks before a few dropouts occured.

Your advice may be to stick with Vegas 3 but I feel it's starting to get left behind, having that automation would be great. If I was to never be able to upgrade past Vegas 3 I would feel I should start learning a new application before I find myself knowing a program no system will support anymore, or some plugins wont work in.

Any advice would be graetly appreciated, I really want to stick with Vegas and if I can get Version 5 to run as good as I has Vegas 3 then I would be set, I was actually hoping a bit more track count & performance from version 5.... oh well.

Adam B
farss wrote on 7/22/2004, 7:27 PM
I wonder how much audio performance has been lost to accomodate all the extra goodies for video?
Even video performance seems to have suffered slightly going from V4 to V5, I'd be interested to see if you run into the same problems with V4.
Even when you don't use a chunk of code, with this type of software there's more things for the code to check, even if they're not in use at some point it has to check the list of what might be there and every new feature adds to the list.
VegUser wrote on 7/23/2004, 3:58 AM
Somebody should keep bumping SNJ's post until a resolve or reply arrives.
It's a major red flag.
It's exactly what I saw in v5 - so I still only have faith in v3c.

Is this going to be addressed sony? I wanna know.
PeterVred wrote on 7/23/2004, 8:54 AM
My System: AMD2500+ 1.7Ghz 512 ram 80gb drives XP pro.
Have done up to 20 tracks with no problems.

Like you...I began computer recording with Vegas 3, a crack that a guy gave me when I bought his Echo Layla audio card...it performed flawlessly.

After a year, I decided to go legit and bought Vegas 4, and my problems began. All problems revolved around and seemingly stem from ASIO drivers. It wasn't until I began using ASIO and Input Monitoring that I ran into trouble.

Version 5 has stablized input monitor "pretty well", not perfect. But, in V5 I ran into the exact same problems you have described. However, most of the problems showed up for me in Version 5a...the dropouts, the clicks, and pops, the choppy stuff.

Part of the problem was that I would get frustrated with 5a, and roll back to 5, which i think let version drivers get mixed up, and things would go from bad to worse.

Version 5b along with with a Format of my C drive and re install of all sony software (with Vegas loaded last) has cured the problems you described.


The only problem i am still having is with input monitor, which does work MOST of the time.
When it does NOT work, it sounds really digital grungy and nasty. If i open a new project and drag the wav files into it...the input monitor will work fine. All that is fine, but in a case where i had made a bunch of dubs...dragging in the wavs is a bitch.

In summary, you really should make the upgrade move. Input monitor is good, and the automation on the fly is GREAT!

As a side note...when trying out the vegas 5 did you use the ASIO drivers?
I think that had you not used them you would find that is performed similar to version3.
Just my thought...whenever i run into problems, it seems that windows drivers will stop the problem, but input monitor is not available.

I am so happy that you "found peace" in my post. That is the single nicest thing anyone has ever said to me in these forums...or anywhere online. I would guess that my newfound faith is working.

P
SNJ wrote on 7/23/2004, 10:37 AM
Thanks for responding, especially PeterVred.

Windows drivers versus ASIO drivers do not give me any difference in performance.

I have found peace in reading your post, just to see that someone else has had the same issues. Looks like I have to reformat my system and start from scratch - very annoying, as I habe over 100 direct x plugs to install and configure, plus I dont own a windows install disk (long story). And of course my recording studio has to shut down for the weekend to allow the time to do this.

Side note - Vegas 3 is now just as bad, after rolling back. Unistalling Vegas 5, 3 and microsoft NET and then reinstalling Vegas 3 and it still sucks. Also, the channel FX are all still "sony" not sonic foundry amd when I go to insert a track optimized FX they are not there, and I cant direct the browser to any.

Side note 2 - after getting very frustrated with Vegas not being able to handle a measly 16 tracks of audio with no FX running at all (it hits 100% CPU straight away), we tried the same track counts in Cubase SX. The CPU meter wouldn't go past 25%, and it was hard to make it "hit the wall" for track count, even with like 10 waves reverbs running realtime. Problem is, Cubase is so damn clunky to edit audio compared to Vegas! What takes me 2 seconds in Vegas take a minute in Cubase.

ANY TIPS? I'm gonna format my whole system tomorrow, but if there is some simple tweak Im not doing please LET ME KNOW!




wobblyboy wrote on 7/23/2004, 11:18 AM
I have been using Cubase for 7 years. I started using Vegas for video and ended up doing some audio projects in Vegas. I found the editing to be much quicker and easier than in Cubase. I plan on using Vegas more for audio projects. I haven't really pushed it to max with number of tracks and effects. The only problem I have had with audio was resolved when I discovered that I had to manually reset project properties sample rate to match rate forASIO drivers in order to record ADAT through Motu 2408. I have had no Vegas problems with playback through ASIO drivers. I did have a problem with Sound Forge and CD Architect with noise on playback. That was resolved by settling smaller buffer size. I still have Vegas 3 on my system and I am glad to know that if need be I can use it. I do some midi and will continue to use Cubase for those applications. The good thing for me is that I can now plug into any of 24 inputs and record directly to Vegas.
stormstereo wrote on 7/23/2004, 6:37 PM
I don't know if it's worth anything to you but there's a small, free utility called "DX Plugin Uninstaller" at http://www.directxfiles.com/plugins.htm that allows you to watch a list and completely uninstall any direct x plug from your system. And you'll find a lot of free plugs on the same page.

Best/Tommy
filmy wrote on 7/23/2004, 9:25 PM
>>>Vegas 3 is now just as bad, after rolling back. Unistalling Vegas 5, 3 and microsoft NET and then reinstalling Vegas 3 and it still sucks. Also, the channel FX are all still "sony" not sonic foundry amd when I go to insert a track optimized FX they are not there, and I cant direct the browser to any.<<<

This sounds like it may be part of an update type of thing. In other words - in the past you could download a Demo of a SoFo program (like Acid) and it would update plug-ins and drivers for your installed program (like Sound Forge). Than you could uninstall whatever demo you had installed - the updated drivers and such would remain. When Sony bought SoFo this sort of added some issues - yeah, now my plug-in says Sony is many cases but also directories are not the same. Vegas 5, in theory, goes into its own little space. But as far as Vegas goes many of the plug-ins from Vegas 5 do not function in Vegas 4...such as the new surround plug-ins. I say this because I installed the demo of Vegas 5 - and it timed out after 1 1/2 days...but many of the plug-ins stayed because I have Sound Forge and Vegas 4 wiith the Sony update, "e" I think it is - so some things did get 'updated' and were not removed. (It is nice to have Flash import in Vegas 4 now..he he)

Sadly it sounds like installing Vegas 5 updated some things - and probably the only way to get rid of them is to uninstall and do a manual clean of the directories and possibly the reg file as well. I know the install program puts weird things all over, to this day all my vid cap files are id'd as "Sonic Foundry Video Capture 2" files. Somewhere, even though I have searched many times for it, there is some entry that has *not* updated those file associations with Vegas 4 (or even Vegas 5 for that matter)

HOWEVER - before you do this, With the newer stuff - Sound Forge and the Sony Version(s) of Vegas include a migrate tool. Have you tried using that to see if it does anyting to help?
SNJ wrote on 7/25/2004, 7:41 AM
A complete format and reinstall of Windows XP Pro has Vegas 5 running very smoothly, I'm getting over 40 tracks of audio playback while tracking a stereo file.

There should be a warning that going from Vegas 3 to Vegas 5 is problematic.

I'm am super happy to have Vegas back up and running, and to have version 5 at that, but it meant a whole weekend of stress and lots of lost revenue.

Thanks for all that gave tips, thanks for that Direct X PlugIn UnInstaller, what a great litle app. Thanks to Sony for returning my support email with a useful response within the week.
jetdv wrote on 7/25/2004, 11:21 AM
SNJ, great to hear everything is back up and running again.
PeterVred wrote on 7/27/2004, 7:30 AM
Yes...i ran into channel Fx not working right. When opening an existing project, i would get "plugin preset not available" messages. I freaked!

That is why i mentioned when reloading everything, put Vegas in Last. It seems that older versions of Sound forge would overwrite the vegas FX if i loaded vegas first. So, be sure to load vegas last.

Can't see why V3 fx would show up as Sony. That's why i say...some drivers tend to just get mixed up. I'm sure it is something we are doing wrong, and loading order seems to be very important with programs that "share" plugins.

Now, if you are running say, Sound forge 7, and then you load Vegas 3...i would think the vegas 3 fx would override the SF fx. or you might just get more probs.

In my humble and limited opinion, i would say to stick with 5b. I can see no reason not to.
look for the problems elsewhere in the computer and windows setup.

You mention not owning a "windows install" disk. You mean one of the computer company factor restore disks? If so...forget that crap...load a fresh version of XP pro...buy it, don't wait. Don't load a lot of extranious (sic) bullshit. Load only what you really need on your PC.

Those PC companys, i.e. Acer, Compac, whatever... dump so much junk on your system it amazes me that any major audio apps will run.

Pete
PS I am so glad you "found peace" in my post...i attribute that to my new found faith, not my limited technical knowledge.
:)
Makes my day.
PeterVred wrote on 7/27/2004, 10:10 AM
Glad to hear it...it's always a bitch reloading from the ground up, but it seems like about once a year it's a good idea.
P