A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation -ACID Product Family

ACID Product Family

Subject:A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Posted by: Spheris Date:7/19/2004 12:24:00 PM It's probably the worst possible thing for Sony to do in hanging their Acid user base out to dry right now. But before this goes left or right, let me make a point, or two, and hopefully one of the engineers who frequent this forum will kick in and do what I can't for people wondering and waiting. 1. Markets shift in silence and they shift violently when opposing technologies advance while no word comes down as to what is coming from your next offering or if/when. 2. Schedules slip, universal truth. Yes a certain amount of ire comes from your market segment with that. But it remains a very, very poor excuse to keep them in a blackout situation when they have limited monies to decide on their next software/hardware investment. Sony owes it to them and to themselves as a productive maker of commercial software to make sure if their base is waiting on them. It is not in vain. 2a. Considering that neither vegas nor forge were great leaps forward from their immediate previous versions. I sincerely hope the development time excuse is not in the offing. And if it is, that it's a little more justified than the xp themes adaptation of vegas 5 or the spectrum window dock in forge 7. Neither struck anyone as particularly impressive. And considering vegas and acid share so very much common code (or so the internal pref panel tells me) It sort of deletes the build from the ground up idea. So I'm hoping that was all just a fluke and that development time will actually mean something in this instance. 3. It has been months since you made your tell us what you need form - and NAMM is around the corner, at the very least. It could be made a reference point to some. IE not at NAMM summer, but before NAMM winter. Let's be realistic about this. You're not fixing Forge 6 or 7 currently (most agree you probably never will at this point). You might be addressing the errors in the DVDA update. Vegas from all accounts seems solid - So obviously you have something to report about acid to these people- for better or for worse. If the app is dead, let us off the hook to pursue other applications and move on. If not the case, then we're looking at an ETA of? Round it off, we don't need hour or minutes on this one. it's not asking alot Sony, It's not smart that we would have to ask at all. Considering your market share, it's actually counter productive to maintain this blackout and ignore the user base in such a way. 4. This is my suggestion to the users, call them and DEMAND an answer to your questions (within reason, I doubt you can force them to rush it and would you want to?) It's your money and you decide where it goes to depending on what's available (or lack of) Remind Sony of that fact - I doubt they bought SoFo for a loss leader. So that leaves that they are left with having to answer to and show some adequate respect to their clientelle - US. The owners of their products and still the people who pay their bills when it comes right down to it. Put the questions to bed, or put the app to bed and move on. But dozens of threads later and nothing but meandering speculation and not one reply from anyone at Sony? It's just mental masturbation and it's really not getting anyone anywhere.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: DKeenum Date:7/19/2004 7:32:21 PM I think that if you look, it's the same people going over this time and time again. Then there are the rest of us who wait for something to talk about.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/19/2004 8:10:23 PM Just for the record, have there been Sonyfo employees in this forum promising 5.0 or not? There certainly were frequent assurances for 4.0, and even a rough time frame which proved stylishly late but about what we expected. I'd be interested to hear what has been said in these pages directly from actual insiders. If there's been a stonewall, that would be telling.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spirit Date:7/19/2004 10:16:42 PM There's only this that I can remember: http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=1&MessageID=274143 About two-thirds of the way down is a reference to by a Sony employee being the "Acid lead developer". That's as close as it gets.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: ATP Date:7/19/2004 11:15:31 PM holy crap, don't you people have real problems to whine about? of late this board has degenerated into a "when will ACID5 arrive?????" or "sony, say something, you owe it to us" posts by members who don't even seem to read eachother's threads, because they're all posting the same crap. yes, SonyFo is being awfully quiet, yes, it's annoying. but seriously people, don't you think that if Sony cared about keeping you informed they would have started a new thread explaining all the new features long, long ago? no, instead you get to make thread after thread harassing the developers, who happily ignore each and every post because they can't be arsed to fuel the argument. now that's very productive, don't you think? maybe you could have gotten the hint after the first 20 threads concerning this issue got ignored by everyone who might have had something substantial to say. btw, i dare all of you who complain so vocally on this board to put your money where your mouth is and drop ACID altogether for something like Live or Sonar. go ahead, do it, play with your new fantastic audio application and stop whining about programs you've stopped using. i think that should make all of us happy. /rant over
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spirit Date:7/20/2004 12:46:39 AM Very amusing ATP. But you've entirely missed the point. Peope who don't care (and warez users) have already moved apps. The people who do care are on this board talking aout AP5 (or the lack of it). And if all the world took your laughably simplistic advice then there would be no consumer groups, no advocates, no action campaigns etc. Complaining and debating IS how things change. It IS how pressure is brought. If the top 30 threads on this forum were all about "where is AP5" that would have a big effect on Acid development whether or not we got a reply from developers. They read this stuff. The mere fact of reading, the mere weight of threads, the incessant questions, the increasing annoyance, it all adds up. I've seen this board mentioned on other music forums about how "Acid users are demanding answers". The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: ATP Date:7/20/2004 3:03:03 AM so basically what you are saying is if you keep on asking and demanding, Sony will eventually come around and spill the beans. i find that pretty naieve. as for my "laughably simplistic advice", call it what you want but surely you must know as well as i that Sony is already well aware of this small group of very vocal people who make demands ... so why aren't they hurrying out with the goods already? let me guess, because you haven't pressured them enough yet? anyway, ACID will never be the ultimate music program, and Sony shouldn't try to make it so. but ACID IS the ultimate looping tool, and i'm sure people who are considering a switch now will come back when ACID5 is released, despite Sony's lack of communication on the matter.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spirit Date:7/20/2004 5:05:29 AM My policy isn't great, but I think it's still superior to your options which seem to me to be: 1) give up and run away 2) do nothing
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: DKeenum Date:7/20/2004 6:45:51 AM Let me give you this: I think people on this board had an influence on rewire being put in acid. So, yes, I think we can have an influence. What is tiresome is the same people saying the same thing over and over. I If acid is going to be dropped from the product line, the few people on this board will have no effect on that. Our $99 for the upgrade is pointless. We can’t do anything about that kind of business decision. I, for one, think that Sony is either working on acid 5 or they are not. That decision has already been made. Time to move on. If there will be an acid 5, then I think we could possibly influence feature decisions. That would be an argument worth having. Or, how about we discuss the way things work on acid 4? Maybe we can find some new ways of working. I learned about using busses for effects right here. That is a completely different approach from my background with effect sends and returns. So how about we just forget the Sony guys and talk about acid. Hey, the app is good enough for complete productions in 24 bit! We ought to be able to use it whether acid 5 ever gets here or not. As for me, I still use acid 3 on my laptop because of processor and memory constraints. And it still sounds great! I use acid 4 on my desktop, and will keep using it for some time... even if acid 5 never arrives. I’m sorry for the tirade. I don’t mean to be disrespectful. I just think that we are acid users… you know, we use acid! Let’s talk about that.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: JohnnyRoy Date:7/20/2004 6:47:47 AM Why all the concern with if there will be an ACID 5 in these threads? Sony bought ACID from Sonic Foundry, they asked you what you wanted in ACID 5, they don’t comment on the delivery of future versions until they are ready to announce. So what’s the problem? In this thread: It's up to you guys... AP's future Peter (SonyPCH) clearly states: "We have heard the requests and the needs of both sides of the user base for ACID. ACID will always move forward. I can't comment on the specifics of what that will be for ACID 5 or further. " What more do you want? Heck, the "ACID 5 or further" comment suggests there will even be an ACID 6! It’s pretty obvious that Sony is serious about this app. That’s about as good as it gets. Let's just wait and see. ACID 4 is still the best loop-based composition tool on the planet. ~jr
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spheris Date:7/20/2004 8:29:34 AM And I agree with all sides on this one.. My only point in making the points made was to spur the truly displeased and needing to pick up the phone and ask the company itself. or make a leap and move on. But yes, it was also to remind sony that they are facing tough competitors and silence in the face of something like ableton/cakewalk/etc marketing is still silence and not really marketing productive.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Iacobus Date:7/20/2004 11:22:15 AM Want my thoughts? All this speculation is bulls--t. If one frequents the forum enough, they'd know that SPD (Sony Pictures Digital) has commented that ACID 5.0 is developing. They even had a quasi-official thread as to what users wanted to see. They just can't say exactly what has made it so far in the new version. (Surprised? It's called an NDA—a Non-Disclosure Agreement.) Not having ACID in the app lineup is, quite frankly, asinine. You might as well not have Sound Forge either. ReWire made it into ACID 4.0 after the intial release. Propellerhead reportedly wanted ACID to have it very badly. So ReWire would have made it into ACID regardless of the whining beforehand. It was an inevitability, just like many things will be for ACID (or Vegas or Sound Forge for that matter). I have to definitely agree with ATP here. People seem to be making mountains out of molehills. SPD is in no way obligated to give us a blow-by-blow of ACID 5.0's development, just as they're not obligated to come on this forum to help users out with problems (though they do monitor from time to time). This is mainly a peer-to-peer forum. Iacobus ------- RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid mD's ACIDplanet Page Guitars 4 Kids
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: DKeenum Date:7/20/2004 1:28:04 PM So... can we move on now?
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spheris Date:7/20/2004 3:35:07 PM Entirely depends on them, I spoke to Sony Japan today. The news wasn't great but I have my answer to it now.
Subject:Remember the AP5 Features Request... Reply by: Zacchino Date:7/20/2004 5:00:43 PM I kind of agree. I mean, that's another way of saying what I wanted to tell everyone in my latest Thread. Anyway, do you guys remember when "Try Again : AP5 Features Request" was posted ? (summary here) It was in November only. Now we're in July, so that makes 9 month. I don't think 9 month is enough to respond to user's wishes (or most of them).
Subject:RE: Remember the AP5 Features Request... Reply by: Spirit Date:7/20/2004 5:16:51 PM While the "move on" sentiments are good advice, and Sony's "say nothing" policy is well known, it doesn't do much to counter human nature. All these frustrated posts are just the natural response of loyal users wanting to see their chosen application effectively compete. Who enjoys watching the comptetition zoom ahead and offering appealing little features while we remain static and clueless ? These posts may not be achieving much, but they are a natural consequence of market events and Sony policy. No one should be surprised. Nor should there be surprise if they continue. But OK, I'll at least try to shutup ;-)
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: pwppch Date:7/20/2004 7:39:24 PM What did "Sony Japan" tell you? Whom did you talk with? What news did they provide that "wasn't great"? Peter
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spheris Date:7/20/2004 10:50:35 PM Don't be a smartass Peter, Your Sony, the one that owns most of the Japanese landmass as well as Columbia, Tristar and now your little part of the world? I assume that's the one we're talking about? Their word was not much at all, it is slated, but no definitive timeline to be told, contact the SonyMedia US office was the recommended, which is a runaround anyway (if there was anything to say, I guess this thread would not be here would it?) but telling for a few reasons. 1. Sony usually has a very stiff finger on the pulse of its assests. You being one of those assets and no clear idea of what to say in reply to my question, not a good sign. But....... 2. It's a good sign from another viewpoint, That same finger has snuffed out many an asset by manhandling it too much in the past. So autonomy seems to still be in some place at the new "sony/sonic foundry" if you follow that path. 3. Whom I decide to contact there is my concern - not yours. But to answer the answer the question for you. A contact my firm has through Sonys domestic (i.e.: Japanese) electronics division, the guys who make the video equipment we use (we do a lot of ntsc and PAL oriented work). I had no idea who to ask, so I went to her to ask to feel it out since she might have some idea of who (Sony is a huge octopus of a corp) and the above is what she came back to me with. Whom she asked, I did not bother to inquire, I was just thankful to have any sort of answer at all. No magic trick involved, not much to it at all, Peter. Just a very dim feeling something is happening with it. But what, god only knows - it was an ambiguous answer to an ambiguous situation. But my own decisions about it I'm going to base on past, since SoFo does seem to retain its autonomy. That is not particularly good news for my part as it may be a while before I/anyone else sees what that bears and that is the end statement until the covers come off whatever is in the wings for Acids future. For what it's worth, I'm not looking to switch platforms. I see no reason not to wait it out. I'm simply tired of seeing one bitch thread after another consume bandwidth to no end for no end in whether or not the latest and greatest will ever appear. I hope that makes me clear at least on it. Last thought Peter, I'm not here to give you static. So don't leave me with the impression you are. You took a hell of a beating in the vegas forum and they were fairly good natured about it all (I doubt you'll find the same sense of comraderie in here based on the rise in angst posts lately). And to be honest, you now work for a company my own firm has very good relations with. So you and I having another go at one another, will have to wait till we're mutually retired or we both decide we would like to be fired from our perspectives. Personally, I'd rather buy you a drink at NAMM and get into a real discussion with you (i.e. pick on you about the mess made of the unicode porting, though that would be fairly good natured - everything has a learning curve) But now that you have stuck your head out here, would you be good enough to give these people some clue about it and shut them up? Pretty please. I'd like to get back to the old forum kicking around new ideas of how to get the most of what we have right now. Rather than bitch endlessly about what isn't there yet. End of thread, for me at least. I leave the rest to you, Peter Give these people some peace of some sort. It's not a lot to ask.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/21/2004 2:59:58 AM Guess he can't. Nice post, Spheris. Thanks for sharing what you were able to come up with. Gotta say, there are some dang powerful forces at work, market and otherwise, on ol' AP and it's gonna be hugely interesting to see how SonyFo plays its hand!
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: pwppch Date:7/21/2004 6:30:30 AM Spheris: A smartass? I asked some simple questions. Not trying to be a smart ass or set you or anybody off. We are far and removed from Sony Japan, so I was just curious what you were told. The only thing I can say is that you - and many others here - are speculating far too much. We are just beginning to explore the possibilities that being part of Sony Pictures Digital brings to us. No corporate doom and gloom. Nothing nefarious is taking place. No complacency. No dumbing down of the products. We are focused on improving and expanding our product line, as always. ACID 5.0 is fine. We are a on track. Some will be happy, others will cry. My feeling is that the next release will be a winner for the larger installed base. No, I can't provide any details : have I ever? I have no interest in getting into these types of debates or discussions. We are working on the next version of ACID. It will be out sooner rather than later. Back to my self imposed exile from these forums. Peter [edit] Our policy of future releases is as it always has been: No discussion beyond what I have said here and before. No dates, no features.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: jtxx000 Date:7/21/2004 8:14:19 AM Can you just tell us if it will be out by Christmas? Right now I have the demo of Tracktion and am trying to figure out how to use it. I have used Acid for some time now and I love it but its half way support for VST limits it useability. Up until now Acid has been my main host, but Tracktion seems to offer a lot more i the way of midi and vst, and it also multitracks. I useually don't use loops with Acid and instead record everything so I'm not sure if Acid is suited to my needs. I have a VST adapter but I'm sick of seeing plugins that work only if you have a "flexible host". Right now I'm not sure what to do, Acid's upgrade is probably going to cost as much as Traction so I'm going to end up getting one or the other. Please come out with Acid 5 soon so I ca decide.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: DKeenum Date:7/21/2004 10:01:38 AM If you don't use loops then I would think that acid is not the product for you. I'd say find one that fits you better. Tracktion may be it. To me, everything in acid revolves around the loops. My guess would be that that would continue.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spirit Date:7/21/2004 11:31:55 AM Well, that's some news. "Sooner rather than later" sounds good. Something for the "larger installed base" is also an interesting clue. To me that means advanced features for existing users rather than new bells and whistles for bright-eyed novices. I'll resist Ableton and maybe hold out for a crossgrade if things go pear-shaped. Thanks for the tidbits :-)
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/21/2004 1:30:09 PM See, I take "larger installed base" literally, meaning the superset of all Acid users rather than the subset of advanced pro users. Which is right in line with Sony always skewing consumer rather than pro. Remember, these are the same guys who brought us Sony Blast!, the Clie, Make My Video (sorry, that was all my fault) and Interactive Movies. Be afraid, be very afraid...
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spirit Date:7/21/2004 3:22:47 PM he he, you're right, could mean that or anything in between :-)
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: DJ_Don Date:7/21/2004 3:39:08 PM Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think 5.0 will be great. They certainly didn't "dumb down" the latest versions of Sound Forge or Vegas for more mass appeal, and I'm sure there will be a "lite" version of Acid for the consumer market. I'm also betting that Acid PRO 5.0 will be just that--more tools for "pro" users. And I'm hoping "sooner" means 6 weeks or less. Time will tell, of course, but I'm sure Peter nailed it--some will be thrilled, some will be pissed. Sounds like every other software upgrade ever released too. Let's hope the wait is almost over. I've been perusing the Sonar web sites, and I downloaded the demo of 3.1. It seems like great software, but even though it appears pretty user-friendly, I don't want to walk up its learning curve. I'm hoping 5.0 will have the proper MIDI sequencing tools to allow me to work as effectively as possible without using any other app. This whole "let Acid handle loops so we can stick them into our "pro" apps like Sonar/Cubase/Pro Tools/etc" is a pile of garbage. Acid 1.0 could do that. I see Sony making 5.0 even more of a standalone solution, which they've been doing to one degree or another since 2.0. I mean, why bother with MIDI at all if it's going to be half-assed (and that is NOT a slam on 4.0, so don't take it as such). They started the idea in 3.0, advanced it further in 4.0, and hopefully 5.0 will knock it out of the park. Same with Beat Mapping, Chopper, etc. Sorry for the long post/rant, and here's to waiting for the big day--whenever it may be. Peace.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/21/2004 5:21:00 PM You know, Don, it is hard to imagine they wouldn't finally do a full midi (as opposed to a Full Monty) in 5.0, and bring it into the real world in all major aspects in which it still lags. It's hard to see what other way they could go, which is a bit of its own trap in that they start to go head-to-head with complex full-featured pro apps. Is that a battle they can hold their own in? I say yes if they take notes on what's better in Ableton and Garageband and give us some stunning new organizational and functional tools. I'm really looking forward to that feature list, that's for sure! If that's a big huh? then sayonara Kutaragi-san, we must leave for sunnier shores.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: ozzborn Date:7/21/2004 10:53:50 PM i need vst support, better midi(with midi pluggins) and a rocksolid acid 5.0 or rewire slave support and a crashproof acid 5.0 i would be happy with either one
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: gjn Date:7/22/2004 2:52:08 AM bravo PM Everything is said
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: zendar Date:7/22/2004 5:05:09 AM wow spheris really went off the deep end there lol, watch your blood pressure fella! nice post peter
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/22/2004 1:14:51 PM So the consensus seems to be a 5.0 to battle the Big Boys: full midi, VST, ReWire slaving, stability, and I would add a final aggro implementation of audio so they no longer have to disclaim "Acid was never conceived as a multi-track audio application". They been teasing audio with a half-ass job all along, why not now finally go for it? Then the marketing would be: we've got all the bells and whistles now, plus Acid's famous loop interface which blows away all imitators. What's wrong with this picture? Some would say nothing, but if I'm in a SonyFo marketing meeting, I'd say I need one more thing to stand tall with the giants of pro apps. One more unexpected over-the-top feature which makes 5.0 a slam dunk, a unique standout. Sony understands that thinking. I have to believe there's a surprise in every box. This is gonna be fun.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:7/22/2004 2:49:05 PM Maruuk... Dude to start off I just want to say its good to see your around these parts again from being gone for a bit. Hope all is well. But to the point.You were saying these things before 4.0 was released which is great. But then the release became a reality and the feature set wasn't up too the hype. And this place got ugly. [Forget about the bugs...I know I'm still trying] I'm totally confident that this release is going to be slammin' but to think that kind of a evolution could be done in one upgrade...I'm with you imagining a time where I can rewire acid to vegas.[or do it all in acid] It's just that I have to face a reality that a monster app like sonar wasn't built in one release cycle. And just like Peter said..."Some will be happy, others will cry". Thats how its been with EVERY sofo/sony app. When Vegas 5 was released the video guys were pissed that us audio guys got all this cool stuff. Acid won't be any different. The thing that should be looked at with this release is how has sony's r&d team reacted to the wishlist. Don't think that just because you didn't get what you wanted now that you won't later. The #1item on the wishlist was "stability". That means no cutting corners or adding features that they can't fully care for. We ALL asked for it. Ed.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: DJ_Don Date:7/22/2004 4:58:31 PM "It's just that I have to face a reality that a monster app like sonar wasn't built in one release cycle." I 100% agree, but remember when the first version of Sonar was released? It was an upgrade from (I think) Cakewalk 9.0 (correct me if I'm wrong on that--I never used Cakewalk). Every publication out there said "Whoa, this is more than an upgrade--this is a transition to a whole new app. Bravo!" For the most part the reviews were quite favorable, and it sold a ton. Since then Cakewalk have upgraded it a few times so far, and it keeps getting better. If Sony put even 60% of what we asked for into 5.0, IMHO it would be an upgrade as big as Sonar was to Cakewalk. But to jump into Sonar from scratch, you would have quite a learning curve. I'm quite confident that Acid 5.0 will have the same drag, drop, and paint workflow, which would allow even rank beginners the ability to "paint" some music within the first hour of installing the software, and take it from there. In other words, I'm sure the same things that caused me to love Acid back in the 2.0 days will still be there, along with all the new advancements we all hope are to come. Sorry if this post is a little rambling--I'm REALLY tired! :o) Peace.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/22/2004 7:16:37 PM If this was the old SoFo, yeah, it would be a partial list of half-baked goodies, another cog in the slog. But this is Sony. I don't expect miracles mind you, but from them I do expect surprises. I love surprises.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: jtxx000 Date:8/6/2004 7:23:26 AM Well, I bought Tracktion... thanks to all the kind people on this forum, and thanks to SoFo for the great product but Tracktion seems to be better suited to my needs.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spirit Date:8/6/2004 9:43:50 AM Tracktion has some bad bugs - especially a "first-note" midi bug. I was looking into that too, but there's too many frustrated users.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: jtxx000 Date:8/21/2004 11:16:42 AM Yeah, it does have some problems, but having multiple files on one track, rack filters, being able to route tracks to tracks, and some other things was enough for me to get it... hopefully the bugs will be fixed in version 2.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Snappy Date:9/18/2004 6:44:55 PM re: original topic Lots of people tripping here about A5. I'm oblivious. Like when you are swimming underwater and it is raining... You have no clue... Because my head is buried in A4, making music! Try it!
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: pastorove Date:9/23/2004 3:09:14 AM Snappy, and others with the "Use Acid4 - it's here now" opinion, are wrong. From your perspective it may be right: Why wait for something when you can music right now? This have been a constant in music technology for years. There's always a large group of users with the feeling that if you can't music with what you have, then new equipment will not help you. Your missing one thing. Making music isn't always about making perfect songs. It's about the creative experience making it. The experience is very much a quest of exploring. And whatever subject people find to be the most fun exploring is their way of being creative. So exploring a new version of a software can of course be as creative as testing out new tracks. So, in this case, I understand those who wants a v5. Exploring v4 is probably over, or not as fun anymore. The kick of discovering what can be done isn't there as much as before. Frustration of course looms. Especially if you consider the classic softwarebiz way of satisfying these users every 18 months. Well, thats my point really. / Mattias
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: MyST Date:9/23/2004 3:15:22 AM "Snappy, and others with the "Use Acid4 - it's here now" opinion, are wrong." That's your opinion... maybe it's wrong too. Man, you must be something when discussing religion and politics. Mario
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Chienworks Date:9/23/2004 4:46:44 AM Anyone creative enough to be making music and is now done "exploring" ACID 4 can't have a very adventurous spirit! I've been using the same cheap $50 3D animation and image editing software for nearly 6 years now (the company went bust and there haven't been any updates). I've created tens of thousands of still artwork and thousands of animations with it. I'm still finding new capabilities and new ways of doing things that i hadn't found before.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: drbam Date:9/23/2004 7:08:58 AM If someone on this forum thinks they have explored all the potential of Acid 4 (or even A 2 or 3 for that matter), then I would argue that you are clearly much more interested in and passionate about software than music. To get a bit of a reality check, I would suggest those who are complaining that they can't do what they want with A4, read the in-depth interview with Gary Chang in the latest edition of Electronic Musician. Chang is an incredible composer/sound designer and has any and all of the tools he wants. His comments about Acid were an eye opener for me in that Acid 4 apparently is his primary app in the context of other gear costing tens or thousands of $. Bottom line here is that if you feel you've reached the limits of Acid 4, then I believe you've actually reached the limits of your own creativity, imagination, and most of all, discipline, and Sony can't do anything about those issues. drbam
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Vocalpoint Date:9/23/2004 7:37:55 AM Anyone creative enough to be making music and is now done "exploring" ACID 4 can't have a very adventurous spirit! I've been using the same 1957 Strat for 16 years. I'm still finding new capabilities and new ways of doing things that i hadn't found before. Cheers! VP
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Rednroll Date:9/23/2004 10:30:22 PM "wow spheris really went off the deep end there lol" And some of these lines just need to be requoted for clarities sake...... Spheris said: "But to answer the answer the question for you." "My only point in making the points made" "silence in the face of something like ableton/cakewalk/etc marketing is still silence" "But before this goes left or right, let me make a point, or two, and hopefully one of the engineers who frequent this forum will kick in and do what I can't" "I hope that makes me clear at least on it." "if you follow that path." Now did everyone get that?
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Rednroll Date:9/23/2004 10:46:12 PM Peter Said: "We are far and removed from Sony Japan, so I was just curious what you were told." BTW Peter, my Sony walkman broke last week, you think you can fix it for me?...and oh yeah my Sony Vega TV's Vertical hold isn't holding anymore...you think you could do a firmware upgrade on it or something? Lol :-)
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: drbam Date:9/24/2004 6:45:14 AM >>Pretty please. I'd like to get back to the old forum kicking around new ideas of how to get the most of what we have right now. Rather than bitch endlessly about what isn't there yet.<< That's a wonderful idea. Interesting that you have such a difficult time doing so. drbam
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Spheris Date:9/24/2004 7:52:27 AM Red, You're still a funny funny little man. Sorry to see you still having trouble with language or phrasing. But there is that whole thing about the american educational standards to contend with I guess (near the bottom of the international standards now - apparently every child left behind of whatever nonsense the White House was selling some years ago). Be good, or at least be better at it. If you want to sound like some hack political "sound bite" genius - at least try to fake being clever. Taking anyone out of context is neither clever nor useful, just ask the Kerry press staff, or anyone at Fox. It just generates noise. And do yourself a favour and stay out of any bickering Peter and I do. You're still just yourself (a guinea pig in the case of sony- I could care less what you don't do during the day considering your obvious free time to post these things) and have nothing to do with it or the squabbles between he and I (you might notice, we do keep them fairly within bounds). If you find you can't. Post me an address for yourself- so I can send you a rubik cube or something appropriate to occupy you while we debate other things (like inter-company politics/design decisions and policy disagreements) It's effective for my son on the evenings when work carries over and I have to have telephone conferences from home. Considering you act (at times) fairly close to his maturity level. I'm sure it will work for you too. In other words Red, you're acting like a child and/or troll with attention deficit problems. Let's get you some help with that. Or you can just go back to your own complaint (the cd-text shortcomings in cda IN the CDA forum ) and continue to register your displeasure there. You are contributing nothing here in this particular thread, other than to embarrass yourself. The question that prompted the thread was answered some time ago by Sony Japan in the end, with at least a bit more detail than Peter could offer and that suited me fine. The details they have filled in over the last weeks since then have been more than ample to suit my curiousity and answer questions of future workflow issues. It's really all I was interested in, the rest has been watching the thread expand into a nothingness of posts like yours. With no point and no object - just an increasing amount of "mental masturbation" commentary with no question or answer to itself to read through them all. Peters and mine are really the only ones on this thread to do any Q&A and that was over fairly quickly and we went our ways from there, might have something to do with things to BE doing. Who can say, really. It's only sort of a shame that Iacobus "muahahahaha" I can find a bit more entertaining, if not intelligent than your drivel, Red. But I think that's more about sense of humour on his part than sense of frustrated spite on your own. I suggest new tricks. You can reply to this: but I would say it would do you not much good. I do not have any time today or the next week to feed your need for attention. Maybe later, when I'm bored or something, but you're still not anything more interesting to me now than you were then. Take good care
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Rednroll Date:9/25/2004 8:22:46 AM Sorry, if you said anything of any meaning in that last post, but like all your other previous posts I couldn't make it through the entire thread because it's a bunch of blabbering non-sense with no point. Just like this whole thread you started in the first place. You're obviously an idiot and the one starving for attention. Who else would call Sony Japan to get information about Acid? You obviously have no idea how a large international corporation works. I work for an international corporation that has divisions spread up across the world, in Germany, Japan, Austria, China, Singapore, and throughout the U.S, just to name a few. Within my office building there's engineers working in seperate divisions that sit in the office next to mine and I couldn't tell you what they're developing or when their next product is going to be released because they're not in my division. I have close friends who develop products for Phillips, Pioneer, and Panasonic and they'll tell you it's the same way. Here you are calling some contact of yours in Sony Japan, thinking you can get information about Acid. Of course they where polite to you, and probably gave the politically correct answer, which is "contact the SonyMedia US office." Yeah...that's the correct answer, because they're the one's who know and incharge of the development of that schedule and product....not some other division in Sony Japan, that works in a totally different division and on different products. Oh course, I'm going to make some jokes about your babbling behavior, because if you have any idea of international companies, you'ld realize your whole point if there was one, is a joke.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Big_Faced_Boy Date:9/25/2004 7:45:35 PM I really can't be bothered to read all of the above, but it's obvious to me that Sony's marketing is working. So many people are asking about it that it's guaranteed to sell when the release is confirmed. Sony are not stupid. They know what we want and that is exactly why it is taking so long. Do you expect them to disappoint us after the grief they took over ACID 4, which wasn't even their product? I believe that it will be great, just as the advances ACID 4 were over ACID 3, despite the reliability problems. How many years did it take Nintendo to move from SNES to N64? How many years did it take Sony to move from Playstation to PS2? In both cases, the answer is lots. But did the PS2 disappoint you? If it did, you're in the minority, so stop bitching and find something real to complain about! BFB.
Subject:RE: A few usable thoughts on the ACID 5 situation Reply by: Rednroll Date:9/26/2004 8:35:31 AM BFB, These where my sediments exactly on this whole whining and complaining post anyway. If you're in here demainding that you want to know when and where or else you're jumping ship, then you're probably the last person out there that is likely to jump ship. Sony obviously has you hook, line and sinker already. Most users that are seriously jumping ship, because they don't feel like Acid 4 is not meeting their work requirements probably have not thought twice about it and have already done so without coming into these forums demanding a response before hand. I can tell you I tried out traxtion, and if this program makes you happy then I'm happy you found someyhing that suits your personality. To me this is a kids app in comparison to Acid. Sure it has one or 2 features that Acid doesn't, but the other 100 key features that make Acid so attractive in the first are missing. You basically got people preaching that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, then they move next door and realize what they're missing from the other side they just moved from. The other thing that's rediculous about this whole post is that users are exepecting everything that they want will be in Acid 5.0 when it gets released. Well if you're purchasing a product today in hopes that tomorrow it will develop into something else you WILL be sadly disappointed and you should have jumped ship along time ago for a product that is already available with the features you need. You will see the same users in this forum, who are demainding for a what and when answer to be the firsts to be crying when Acid 5.0 is released and it doesn't have everything they expected. Acid 5 will not have everything under the sun you're expecting, this I can guarantee you, so you might as well be asking "when is Acid v6.0 going to be released."

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