Subject:Record from Firewire source ?

Posted by: Sownman

Date:7/17/2004 10:14:54 PM

I've just purchased SoundForge 7.0 to record from LP to my laptop, then burn CD's. I have the Preamp tape out feeding a Canopis A to D converter, then the Canopis output going to the laptops firewire I/O. Sound Forge can't seem to see any signal. How do you make it look at the digital input ????

Thanks

Steve

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:7/18/2004 3:51:15 AM

I don't think it can. You may need some sort of digital video capture program to perform the recording.

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Sownman

Date:7/18/2004 6:53:16 AM

Thanks for the answer, but I thought that was what I was buying. Per the box "Record your LP's" The computer came with a DVD recording program "WinDVD Creator" that is quite happy with this setup.

Steve

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:7/18/2004 7:20:56 AM

Sound Forge will only be able to access soundcards with drivers installed. So did your camera come with a driver disc that will let Sound Forge know that your firewire port is a sound device? If you go into OPTIONS>PREFERENCS>WAVE, then in the "Record" dropdown box should appear a driver to select for your firewire port. If there isn't one, then that's where your problem is. Your camera did not provide a driver disc, therefore Sound Forge has no idea that audio is being streamed to your firewire port.

Also, since you are trying to record audio from a combination audio/video device (ie a video camera firewire), you might want to try Vegas Video capture. This utility captures both the audio and video stream, plus I believe there's no cost because it's a utility for Vegas users. You might be able to capture the audio/video stream from the camera (I know there is no video, but should show up as black anyway). But this can be opened in Sound Forge and you can seperate the audio and video from each other and just save the audio and delete the video.

Download here:
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/download/step1.asp?CatID=2

Probably, the most important question is why are you using the camera's A/D converters? Your PC doesn't have a Sound Card? You would be better off recording directly from the output of the preamp and directly into a line in of the sound card.

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Sownman

Date:7/18/2004 8:28:26 AM

Not using a camera at all. I'm coming from Turntable to Preamp to Canopis A to D converter to Firewire port of laptop. SoundForge apparently can't be made to look at the Firewire port ? without some other software ? Doesn't make much sense to me. Seems like a simple thing to tell it to look to the analog input (computers sound card) or digital input (computers USB or Firewire)

This recording LP to CD is just not that big a deal and SoundForge is now the second package I've tried that can't cope. Can anyone suggest something that can handle this ?

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: drbam

Date:7/18/2004 12:08:33 PM

As Red indicated, this appears to be a driver issue (or lack of driver issue). Why not just route the turntable preamp directly to your laptop's soundcard?

drbam

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Sownman

Date:7/18/2004 1:08:17 PM

Because a laptop has a 1/8" pin stereo mic input and a headphone out, thats all. Probably very poor quality, possibly wrong level as well.
If there is no way to get SoundForge to address and record a digital input I'm back to shopping. Seems like a very silly feature to leave off of SoundForge.

Steve

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: drbam

Date:7/18/2004 1:31:57 PM

Again, what you are describing is not a lack of feature in Sound Forge (or any other similar application). Its a hardware issue (including drivers). The converter you have appears to be more of a dedicated video unit and this may be part, if not all, of what you're encountering. If the converter did not come with drivers to install for recording audio, then this is definitely the problem. There's no way ANY software application can see your input without proper drivers and in a situation like this, the drivers are unique to each piece of hardware. Personally I would suggest getting one of the soundcards recommended by laptop users of SF and other Sony apps. You can do a search on this or the other Sony forums. You also need to include more details about your laptop system so other folks can better assist you. I'm not a laptop user so I can't personally suggest anything. Tons of people do what you are wanting to do with Sound Forge. You simply need to get the proper audio device and install the appropriate drivers.

drbam

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:7/18/2004 6:02:31 PM

Isn't Scenalizer also supposed to be able to capture only the audio stream? I've never used it, in fact never even downloaded it. I seem to recall there is a free trial. It might be worth investigating for this purpose.

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:7/18/2004 7:47:11 PM

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I had assumed the Canopus was a camera because i wasn't familiar with it.

You will need to install a driver for the canopus A/D converter. A firewire port is not a dedicated audio data port, it can be used by many different types of devices. Therefore, to properly use it, the canopus must come with a software driver that exposes it's I/O properly to Windows. This is the same as USB. 1000's of different devices can be connected to a USB port, unless windows was built with a specific driver for a device you plug into it, where it will automatically recognize a specific device and use the driver built into Windows. Otherwise, you must install the software that comes with the device, so that Windows can properly identify it. I have a USB sound card for my laptop, and no software will access it until I install the driver software. It's the same problem you're having. You can buy other audio software and further waste money, because NONE of them will be able to record from your firewire port until you install a driver for the device connected to it. This is NOT a Sound Forge issue.

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:7/18/2004 8:11:02 PM

Considering that this canopus unit is intended for video use, it's possible that no audio-only drivers have been written for it.

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Sownman

Date:7/18/2004 10:24:26 PM

>>>You will need to install a driver for the canopus A/D converter. A firewire port is not a dedicated audio data port, it can be used by many different types of devices. Therefore, to properly use it, the canopus must come with a software driver that exposes it's I/O properly to Windows. This is the same as USB. 1000's of different devices can be connected to a USB port, unless windows was built with a specific driver for a device you plug into it, where it will automatically recognize a specific device and use the driver built into Windows. Otherwise, you must install the software that comes with the device, so that Windows can properly identify it. I have a USB sound card for my laptop, and no software will access it until I install the driver software. It's the same problem you're having. You can buy other audio software and further waste money, because NONE of them will be able to record from your firewire port until you install a driver for the device connected to it. This is NOT a Sound Forge issue. <<<

I can tell you truly believe what you are suggesting, but there are no drivers for a Firewire I/O port. Canopus is delivering digital signal to the port. Sound Forge is unable to look at the port and record it. I work at my job on a daily basis with Digi Design Pro Tools. I can feed an analogue signal to an 888 card and have Pro Tools look at that input and record it. I can also feed a Digital signal from a digital audio, video, or external A/D converter and tell Pro Tools to look at and record it. It is quite happy either way. I wanted something less feature rich and less hardware intensive for home projects. I I thought SoundForge could handle a similar request, that request being record the signal from the computer card or record the signal from the Firewire I/O or record the signal from the USB I/O It can't. It can only see a sound card.

Steve

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:7/19/2004 7:11:00 AM

At this point I'm wondering if you're really here for assistance or to just piss against the wind, because you've really have been no help in trying to narrow down YOUR problem? If you really want help to get your setup to work then why not tell us the model number of the canapus device, so at least we have some clue as to what you are talking about? Also, I recommended in my first post, "go into OPTIONS>PREFERENCS>WAVE, then in the "Record" dropdown box should appear a driver to select for your firewire port. If there isn't one, then that's where your problem is. " You have not mentioned if you have attempted to do this, or what apprears in the drop down box. You must tell sound forge where to look for recording. These same devices will appear in Windows Sound device manager, if they don't then that's why Sound Forge can't use it. Soud Forge can use all the devices that appear in the Windows Sound Devices. Other users have had no problem using firewire devices by MOTU and M-Audio, we're not sure what your problem is until you give some better information. Which OS are you using?

"I can feed an analogue signal to an 888 card and have Pro Tools look at that input and record it."


The 888 can only run on a MAC OS or a Windows NT system. You obviously didn't install that hardware at work, so there's no point in you bringing it up as a valid point. Sound Forge doesn't run on Windows NT or Mac, so again there's no direct correlation to your point if you're trying to make one.

"record the signal from the USB I/O It can't. It can only see a sound card."

That's funny because I've been recording audio through my USB port using Sound Forge without a problem for over a year now. So I wonder if it's the software inside the monitor screen, or the user on the outside of the monitor screen that is having difficulties? So far all evidence points to the outside.

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Sownman

Date:7/19/2004 8:54:22 AM

If you are a staff member with Sony I would strongly suggest a less insulting tone to your posts. If you are just a guy who hangs out then you can certainly behave anyway you choose. Now more to the point at hand...

As you made a mistake in assuming Canopus was a camera despite my saying otherwise I also overlooked your suggestion of Options> Preferences>Wave. I instead focused on your assertion that my problem
stemed from no device driver. The Canopus has no software it has no driver,
It is an A/D > D/A converter, it is not computer controlled. I am quite aware
of what computers Protools runs on. I have two G4's at work each dual bootable to OS X or OS 9.2. Each run either Protools 5.1.3 or 6.0.

My point in mentioning ProTools is to indicate that I am not quite the dolt
you seem to assume. It was in reference to the fact that in my pro use
I am able to select an input to record. That is what I assumed the case would be with Sound Forge. However in the online help and manual both I could find no reference to Input selection. I then came here looking for help. I've been told pretty much that no it can't do it, and then theres been you
who talks of device drivers. Now 12 posts in you do mention that you record from USB input. If you'd care to share how you do that I'd love to hear, and
can I tell SoundForge to record from the Firewire Input ? That was the begining question, and it still is. I didn't come here to piss in the wind nor to make friends or enemies, just to find help on a topic which is not mentioned in the manual.

Now as to my operating system on the new laptop it is XP Home
The Canopis box is currently at home and I am currently at work
so a model number is for the moment unavailable. As previously mentioned
it comes with no drivers, no software.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

Steve

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: metrazol

Date:7/19/2004 11:01:18 AM

...
Sweet Jesus you people complain a lot.
Simple problem.
Simple solution.
You cannot record from that firewire interface into Sound Forge.
This is not a bad thing.
This is b/c "recording" isn't what you'll be doing. You 'll be capturing an audio stream off of the A/D converter. Just like capturing video. Yes, Firewire is fast enough to record off of, but you don't have the drivers for that. They may not exist, Canopus' site won't tell me.
Now, Vegas LE - Vegas Mega DVD Super Toaster Kazoo Matcher 5 will capture this.
WinXP Movie Maker, an awful, awful, piece of software, will capture this.
If you have WAVE drivers for the Canopus device, Sound Forge or ACID MIGHT record, but I doubt it.
Use capture in one of the mentioned programs. It'll work.
Then tinker with the recordings in SF. It'll work. You'll like the result.

Subject:RE: Record from Firewire source ?

Reply by: Rednroll

Date:7/19/2004 3:23:41 PM

"can I tell SoundForge to record from the Firewire Input ? That was the begining question, and it still is."

And this has been answered and explained to you, why or why not it might or might not work, with additional suggestions on where to check to make sure. Free of charge from a Sound Forge "User" like yourself, except this user has setup quite a few systems using Sound Forge with MB based Sound Cards, PCI sound cards, PCM, USB, and Firewire sound cards.

"Thanks for any help anyone can provide."

Yeah, you're welcome, keep biting the hand that feeds you, that will get your problems solved.

Good luck!!!!