Render issues

bbrooks wrote on 7/14/2004, 10:36 AM

I rendered my movie (just shy of 2 hours) to MPEG 2. I rendered the audio to wave and will let DVDAC-1 render it to AC3.
The movie rendered down to 3 point some odd Gigs. When I go to optimize disc it shows up as 5000+MB's. Wouldn't this be over 5 gigs?

Why does it show up different? How long should it take to prep the DVD files? DVDAC is showing 10+ hours. I've already rendered to MPEG 2, and I was under the impression that it wouldn't take remotely this long.
Brandon

Comments

bStro wrote on 7/14/2004, 11:29 AM

The 5gig vs. 3gig issue is probably just DVDA overestimating the final size. It does that sometimes (usually). Overestimating's not quite as bad as underestimating, I guess.

The real question is, why does DVDA want to re-render your MPEG2, which it obviously does if it plans to take 10 hours to make your disc.

What settings did you use to render the MPEG2 file in Vegas? If you used one of the templates (and did not change anything) which one did you use? How long did your render in Vegas take?

Rob

bbrooks wrote on 7/14/2004, 11:52 AM

Hey Rob! Good to hear from you as always.

I just used the mpeg2 template in Vegas (4.0). I simply chose render as and used MPEG2. I will have to look to see if there is more than one but I don't think that threre is. The render in Vegas took about 11 hours as well.

I didn't acutally get to complete the render in DVDAC. We had REALLY bad weather and I stopped everything and unplugged everything, just to be safe.

Brandon

SonySDB wrote on 7/15/2004, 5:02 AM

As Rob has indicated, you're source MPEG file is likely not DVD-compliant. You can verify in the Optimize DVD dialog (File | Optimize DVD...). The criteria for a DVD-compliant MPEG file can be found in the online help under the "Before You Get Started: Preparing Your Files" section.

You should have rendered to MPEG2 in Vegas with the "DVD Architect NTSC video stream" or "DVD Architect PAL video stream" template.

bbrooks wrote on 7/15/2004, 5:46 AM

What I have is Vegas 4.0 and DVDAC-1. Is that a factor in any of these issues?
Brandon

bStro wrote on 7/15/2004, 7:58 AM

I simply chose render as and used MPEG2. I will have to look to see if there is more than one but I don't think that threre is.

There are several MPEG2 templates. Although they're all the same type of file, they have different settings and are useful for different reasons. In order to be DVD compliant, certain settings must be used. Although other templates may work, the DVD Architect Video Stream template is best geared for using your video in DVDA.

Try this: Open up Vegas, go to Vegas' Explorer window, and find the file that you're having trouble with. Don't open it or add it to the timeline right now, just click on it once and tell us exactly what the lines beneath the Explorer window say. There should be some info about the files video stream and audio stream.

Rob

bbrooks wrote on 7/15/2004, 9:02 AM

I will try to get that info tonight. If I for some reason don't have the DVD Architect Video Stream template - what settings should I use to make my own template?
Brandon

bStro wrote on 7/15/2004, 9:26 AM

Video - Frame size: 720x480
Video - Frame rate: 29.97 (or 23.976, but most likely 29.97)
Audio - Sample rate: 48 kHz

(I am assuming you're in the states, so the above are NTSC specs. If you're in the UK or other region that uses PAL, you want 720x576, 25, and 48 for the above settings).

Bitrate should probably be at least 3Mb/sec (aka, 3000 Kb/sec) and no more than 8Mb/sec (aka, 8000 Kb/sec). Actually, you can go up to 9.8Mb/sec (9800 Kb/sec), but many DVD players have trouble with that high of a bitrate.

There are other settings but these are, I think, the key ones that will keep your file compliant. Any rate, I can't imagine you not having the DVDA templates (there are ones for NTSC and ones for PAL). They come installed with Vegas. Just choose MPEG2 for the Type of File and then open up the combo box next to Template.

Rob

bbrooks wrote on 7/15/2004, 9:36 AM

That may be what I've missed
"Just choose MPEG2 for the Type of File and then **open up the combo box next to Template.** "

I'll try that as well.

I was under the impression though that for audio 44.1 was the best option, but I may be (probably am) totally wrong.

Brandon

bStro wrote on 7/15/2004, 10:27 AM

CD audio is 44.1.

DVD audio is 48.

Rob

bbrooks wrote on 7/15/2004, 10:38 AM

Didn't know that (obviously). Thanks for the heads up. In this instance though, unless I had the basics set up wrong, the audio should have been captured at the correct speed. It was done from analog but passed through my DV Camera as a digital converter. Everything went in simutaneously via firewire. I'll have to check my properties/preferences to make sure.

Brandon

bStro wrote on 7/15/2004, 10:52 AM

the audio should have been captured at the correct speed.

Captured, sure. But that's just your what was input into your Vegas project.

It's your output format (what you render to) that determines what's in your edited, final file(s). If you captured at one setting but you render to a different setting, it's going to change by the time DVDA gets ahold of it. Not that this has much bearing on your original problem, because even if DVDA had to re-encode the audio, that's not what's taking 10 hours to do. The audio encode goes pretty quickly, it's the video portion that can be a bottleneck.

Anyhow, we're getting ahead of ourselves. The video / audio stream info from Vegas' Explorer window should clear some of this up.

Rob

bbrooks wrote on 7/16/2004, 4:41 AM

Video - Frame size: 720x480
I had this one set correctly

Video - Frame rate: 29.97 (or 23.976, but most likely 29.97)
This was ok too.

Audio - Sample rate: 48 kHz
This one I will need to change

I found the template by the way.

"Bitrate should probably be at least 3Mb/sec (aka, 3000 Kb/sec) and no more than 8Mb/sec (aka, 8000 Kb/sec). Actually, you can go up to 9.8Mb/sec (9800 Kb/sec), but many DVD players have trouble with that high of a bitrate."
Is this the DC offset under the advanced video tab?

If I want to do the audio separately in Vegas 4.0 and render for DVDAC. Should I render to wave at 48khz and let DVDAC encode to AC3 or AC5.1
or should I render from VEGAS to AC3 etc etc.

Thanks Rob

Brandon

cbrillow wrote on 7/16/2004, 6:44 AM

As a relative newcomer to DVDA, I'm still on the upside of the learning curve. I find the recommendation to render from Vegas to MPEG using the DVD Architect Video Stream template very interesting. I have been using the NTSC DVD template, only because I'm from the Home for the Hopelessly Literal, and thought that the DVD Architect Video Stream template would write only video, given the template's wording.

Are there advantages to using the DVD Architect Video Stream template rather than the NTSC DVD template?

mbryant wrote on 7/16/2004, 8:19 AM

You are correct, the DVD Architect Video Stream template renders just the video. You then do another render for the audio (to ac3 or PCM, whichever you want).

The reason you want to do it that way is because that’s what DVDA is designed to handle directly – separate video and audio files - and so DVD won’t need to rerender these files. If you use one of the “standard” DVD templates which gives video and audio combined, DVDA will need to re-render to split them out.

Mark

bbrooks wrote on 7/16/2004, 10:46 AM

Mark,
Great info! Do you prefer rendering the audio to a wave file and then let DVDAC encode to AC3 or have it AC3 already to go before DVDAC.

There seems to be a split camp on this one.

My issues have been that when I render to AC3 in Vegas, previewing in DVDAC will have pops,gaps, etc in the audio. If I bring it in as a wave file I don't have that issue. I would assume however that you would have to encode any 5.1 audio to AC3 in Vegas and then have it ready to go for DVDAC.

Brandon

cbrillow wrote on 7/30/2004, 5:55 AM

Thanks for the clarification, Mark.

JaysonHolovacs wrote on 7/30/2004, 9:24 AM

Brandon,
I have v5/v2, so I don't know if my experiences will match yours. But I do MPEG and AC-3 rendering in Vegas. Yes, you must if you are doing 5.1, but even for 2.0, I still do it in Vegas. I don't know if it really matters, but you have more control in Vegas. I've never had a problem with AC-3 playback in DVD-A2, so it's either:

1. Version 1 DVD-A is just not as good at AC-3 playback, or
2. You have some issue with your sound drivers or something that don't like AC-3 in DVD-A, or
3. If you were using that CD audio sampling rate before, maybe that was messing up DVD-A?

-Jayson