Comments

PipelineAudio wrote on 6/18/2004, 3:43 AM
yeah lets start this thread again! At least OMF...why not?
MacMoney wrote on 6/18/2004, 5:17 AM
TOO LATE GUYS!
I had asked a long time ago to bring Vegas Audio Pro back
It would have OMF and AAF file support.
Vegas, Vegas DVD and Vegas Audio Pro would have plugin options like
Midi Seq.
VST Fx.
VST & DXi.
Sony Oxford Plugins.
It would be up to the user what options they wanted to buy.

George Ware
Rednroll wrote on 6/18/2004, 6:00 AM
FYI,
Vegas has an open File I/O architect. If you look in the sub directory under the Vegas install, you will see a "File I/O" folder. In there are DLL files for most of the file formats. This is actually how the Dolby .AC3 plugin gets installed. If there's a third party developer interested in making File I/O plugins, to convert between formats Vegas already has the door open for them. Alls they need to do is get the guidelines of the DLL from Sony. Maybe you guys can try another way around it by bombarding someone like EDL Convert developers to make a Vegas file I/O plugin.

I expect we'll see more BWF support before OMF becomes a consideration in Vegas. Heck, we can't even render as a .VEG project in Acid, so we can open it in Vegas, and you guys are expecting to see File conversion tools from third party competitors? Sounds nice, but when you can't even do it among your own apps, then I'm highly scepticle.

"At least OMF...why not?"

I'm definitely not disagreeing with you, this is much needed. I'm thinking to have OMF support, then Sony would have licensing fees, which would raise the price of Vegas. So they probably have to consider the user base and the total amount of users willing to pay for that functionality. We probably all agree that Vegas has more video users, so that's why I say BWF, before OMF.
tmrpro wrote on 6/18/2004, 6:33 AM
I may be wrong on this because I haven't tried it yet; But...

If you click on open then select "Sound Designer" File Type, won't that open SD2 packets from protools?

Obviosly if they were done on a mac, you would need an additional utility like MacDrive to recognize the unflattened files.....

I was under the impression that this worked...

Well if it doesn't, then you can do what I do:

Buy and install MediaFour's MacDrive5 .... this will allow your windows system to see and recognize unflattened mac files. I think it's about $50.

Then, there's a free utility called sdTwoWav which will convert your SD project files to wav. Files will remain in their original bit depth and frequency.

If you can't find the utility, send me an email and I'll give it to you...

Email Todd
Rednroll wrote on 6/18/2004, 6:51 AM
Aren't SD and SDII files just two track audio? I think that's the problem now. People aren't expecting another studio to jump through unnecessary hoops, so they can send business to another studio. You can save as individual .Wav files in Protools also, and just burn to a disc that is PC compatible. OMF is a little more broader where you can easily save the entire project. You always get the calls asking if you can work on a Protools session, because the client wants to get into a studio and do some work, but the other studio they originally started the project in is booked for a week. So the Protools studio will save their material in a Protools session format for the client or if they're lucky they asked for OMF, because they know a wide variety of studios can open these files. So when you get that call, of "do you have Protools, or can you work on a Protools session?", you have to say NO, so the client hangs up and calls the next studio that can. That's where the problem is, there are hoops we can jump through to get the project into Vegas, but it's always a 2 part effort. There needs to be a way to elliminate having to rely on the other studio to do the right thing for your particular needs.

There was one time I had to turn away a session with Limp Bizkit. They where in town on tour and needed to do some edits for their live show that night. They had all their stuff saved as a Protools session. So that was their first question, "Do you have protools, or a way to open and save a Protools session?" Answer: Sorry, NO. Limp Bizkit calls the next studio that can. I guess that was the only real time, I wish I had still been using Protools instead of Vegas.
tmrpro wrote on 6/18/2004, 7:02 AM
Red Said:
Aren't SD and SDII files just two track audio?...

No. They are fully packeted project files which include all of the individual multitrack audio files, P/T template, TDM settings, etc., etc.

Also, I've never known of any Pro Tools environment where the projects weren't saved in an SD format. This is done so the project can be opened in its entirety at another Pro Tools studio, or studio that has the ability to work with SD file types without integration problems.
SonyEPM wrote on 6/18/2004, 7:04 AM
Project interchange to/from Vegas and Protools (and other DAWs) is available here:

http://www.cuibono-soft.com/Products/products.html

There's a free demo, price is right (US $249.00), tons of people use this tool.
Rednroll wrote on 6/18/2004, 7:17 AM
"No. They are fully packeted project files which include all of the individual multitrack audio files, P/T template, TDM settings, etc., etc'

Thanks, I didn't realize that. The last time I worked with SDII files, was when I was using Sound Designer instead of Sound Forge, so I guess I just assumed they where 2 track files.
tmrpro wrote on 6/18/2004, 8:24 AM
Red Said:
Thanks, I didn't realize that. The last time I worked with SDII files, was when I was using Sound Designer instead of Sound Forge, so I guess I just assumed they where 2 track files.

No problem ... always glad to help!!!

Todd
:)
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/18/2004, 1:08 PM
Is it a liscencing issue? Otherwise Vegas should be able to do it. EDL convert pro does work fine omf from vegas opens in nuendo no problem using it
Rednroll wrote on 6/18/2004, 2:24 PM
I'm not 100% sure for all the technologies. Anytime you use a proprietary technology developed by another company there are liscensing fees that need to paid, for you to be able to use it in your product. Just like .MP3, everyone has to pay Fraunhauser. You develope a product which plays CD's, you have to pay Sony/Phillips. Just think of the amount of CD players and CD's that are made every year. Everyone of them pays a licensing fee to Sony/Phillips. So Sony/Phillips wants that technology to stay around for another 20 years if they could. Rewire, pay propellar heads. I believe OMF was developed by Digidesign, so pay them. .AC3, you pay Dolby Labratories. ASIO/VST/VSTi pay Steinberg. TDM=Digidesign again. Probably a good reason why Vegas supports .WAV and Direct X, because Microsoft makes formats that don't require liscensing fees. Check under the Vegas Help>About tab, you'll see liscense agreements with Microsoft and Real Networks. Check out any of the rendering formats and click on the "About" button. Mpeg=Main Concept, Quicktime=Apple. A company has to consider both the development time and liscensing fees associated with everything and consider how many users are willing to pay for it to see if they'll at least break even to implement it. I'm sure even Cakewalk has to pay Sony for "Acidized loop" playback. If EDLpro Convert supports all these different formats, I'm sure they have a liscensing agreement with each vendor also. I'm sure propellar heads, loves the fact that Rewire is being adopted throughout all the audio apps, customers are screaming for it, and they get to sit back and collect a paycheck. No such thing as a free lunch in technology.

In my opinion the only format that got it right was MIDI. Midi was a standard format agreed upon by a bunch of companies starting with a meeting of these companies at a NAMM convention. That's why almost every sequencer out there will open their own files and "standard midi files". It doesn't cost any liscensing fees to work with a standard midi file. You think someone could have learned from the success of midi and came up with a similar standard audio format for multi-track recorders/editors, but instead you have a bunch of companies developing their own proprietary formats and charging liscensing fees. Microsoft has now developed a multitrack .Wav format, that's probably a step in the right direction.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 6/19/2004, 9:39 PM
>Posted by: SonyEPM (Ignore This User)
>Date: 6/18/2004 7:04:10 AM
>Project interchange to/from Vegas and Protools (and other DAWs) is >available here:
> http://www.cuibono-soft.com/Products/products.html
>There's a free demo, price is right (US $249.00), tons of people use this tool.

But why not a V5 'load PT' option straight-off ? Must be fairly menial to implement (at least active take and track-time positional info),.

And would be a bit of a coupe for Vegas users instead of having to either turn away potential customers arriving this route, or worry them with "Yeah, OK, maybe if I can manage to get your PT session in successfully, using a extra utility" .

We have already to convince them that what we use is actually better than PT - the extra complexity and vaguaries does not make it sound convincing.


geoff
adowrx wrote on 6/19/2004, 9:52 PM
Unfortunately, my digi 001 and Cubase 2.0 already do most of the things I require, better, minus the really easy GUI, but the shortcuts make them both just as easy to use, with a slghtly higher learning curve. I'll still purchase Vegas 5.0, because it is a worthy tool. But the HD Accel is not far behind either. I think we've re-hashed this whole scenario many times in the past.


-jb
ramallo wrote on 6/20/2004, 2:54 AM
Hello,

This was a old request (EDL, OMF, Protools..) , but at least, the Vegas will could import "Broadcast Wave" and "AES31".

Cheers
Rikki_B wrote on 6/20/2004, 11:39 AM
I would think that making it as easy as possible for ProTools users to open and work on their projects in Vegas would actually help to get those folks who have never worked with Vegas to realize that this program's simple elegance and ease of use makes it vastly superior as a creative tool than ProTools, and might even convince many ProTools users who would otherwise believe that there is no viable alternative to using ProTools to actually make the switch over to Vegas.

Personally, I'm a little bit tired of the monopoly Digidesign has in the big studios, and their "we're the only game in town so you have to do it our way whether you like it or not... and by the way we don't take suggestions, and don't expect our product to work well in Windows because only amatuer hacks use PC's" attitude, and would LOVE to see some REAL competition in this arena.

I've been working on a project that had basics recorded in ProTools, with overdubs done in Vegas. The compatability problems have been overwheliming, and ulitimately the original plan to mix the project in ProTools had to be abandoned and the only way to finish the project is to mix it in Vegas, which is VERY unfortunate because this means we'll be mixing this project in my living room with dx and vst plug ins instead of being able to utilize the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of absolutely gorgeous sounding REAL vintage compressors and Pultec EQ's. etc. that we originally thought we'd be able to use during mixing at the studio we layed the basics down in.

For some yet to be discovered reason, the O.D.'s we recorded in Vegas play cannot be synchronized in ProTools. Although the original basics recorded in ProTools line up perfectly with the O.D.'s we did in Vegas when played back in Vegas, and yet when we import those tracks into ProTools, the tracks recorded in Vegas play back at a different speed than the ones recorded in ProTools.

This is NOT a sampling rate mixup (i.e. playing back files at 48k that were recorded at 44.1k for instance) - though the files play back at different speeds the PITCH DOES NOT CHANGE.
After disscussing this problem at length with several engineers, including the former head of the Engineereing and Production dept. at Berklee College of Music, Bill Scheniman, an old friend of mine, who ought to know about these things, we are so far unable to figure out a logical cause for this problem - indeed it seems to defy normal logic.

So we have no other choice at the moment but to mix in Vegas. That'd be fine if I owned a bunch of Fairchilds and Pultecs, but I don't, and if Vegas was only a little more cooperative when it comes to using outboard analog processing and mixing down in real time. Oh well......

BIG drag....

C'mon Sony! Kill the ProTools monster. Put 'em out of buisiness. Please.